Cherrypicking?

bigtonydallas · September 9, 2009 7:00AM

This last weekend, I was at the Fort Worth Texas Coin CLub coin show. I went thru a bunch of coins of a dealers and then asked him how much he wanted for these 4 coins. He asked me what I would pay fro them. I said $5 each. He stated that he did not know he had these coins and that he could retail them for $40 each. The coin is a 1970-s Small date in the worst unc you could imagine. They were very weak strikes with a lot of blemishes and marks. I told him I could not sell them for $40 on Ebay. He proceeded to prove to me that he was right. He went to about 5-6 dealers and sold 2 for $30 each. Some dealers passed. I told him congradulations and good luck in selling the other coins. I was mad cause I noticed the coins as small dates and they had no price at all on them. I just wont look at his coins anymore.

My question to all you dealers, do you feel cheated cauase I find a variety in your stock? Do you feel cheated cause I found it for a lower price?

Another question to everyone. If you found say a roll of a mid level varieties and they were all high grade, would you keep it a secret and try to sell each one secretly or would you anounce the discovery of a roll of uncs found?

Thanks.

InternetJunky · September 9, 2009 7:05AM

I bet if you would have offered $15/each you would have had a deal. I think what caught his eye is you offered such a low price the dealer thought twice about the sale. And although he was $10 short of what he thought he could sell them for, it was definitely more than $5. JMO

Edit: I'm not a dealer so I'll answer this question:

<< Another question to everyone. If you found say a roll of a mid level varieties and they were all high grade, would you keep it a secret and try to sell each one secretly or would you anounce the discovery of a roll of uncs found? >>

Yes, I would tell everybody...so I could finally get a "You Suck" on the US Coin Forum.

pheh · September 9, 2009 7:07AM

Why exactly are you mad again?

ricko · September 9, 2009 7:10AM

And the dealer is eternally grateful to you for pointing out the little treasures he had overlooked. Cheers, RickO

GrumpyEd · September 9, 2009 7:17AM

LOL....

You should have picked out a bigger group and offered 25 cents each. That way there's some non varieties for cover. If the dealer wants to check them all for varieties before accepting your price that's up to him.

Rampage · September 9, 2009 7:22AM

<< This last weekend, I was at the Fort Worth Texas Coin CLub coin show. I went thru a bunch of coins of a dealers and then asked him how much he wanted for these 4 coins. He asked me what I would pay fro them. I said $5 each. He stated that he did not know he had these coins and that he could retail them for $40 each. The coin is a 1970-s Small date in the worst unc you could imagine. They were very weak strikes with a lot of blemishes and marks. I told him I could not sell them for $40 on Ebay. He proceeded to prove to me that he was right. He went to about 5-6 dealers and sold 2 for $30 each. Some dealers passed. I told him congradulations and good luck in selling the other coins. I was mad cause I noticed the coins as small dates and they had no price at all on them. I just wont look at his coins anymore.

My question to all you dealers, do you feel cheated cauase I find a variety in your stock? Do you feel cheated cause I found it for a lower price?

Another question to everyone. If you found say a roll of a mid level varieties and they were all high grade, would you keep it a secret and try to sell each one secretly or would you anounce the discovery of a roll of uncs found?

Thanks. >>

I agree, I think if you had offered a fair price for them, you would have had a deal.

COALPORTER · September 9, 2009 7:27AM

I think it's kind of funny how the dealer got you to work for sub. min wage . )

That's a good idea to know the local C-pickers and let them do the dirty work for you .

telephoto1 · September 9, 2009 7:36AM

If someone wasted a bunch of my time blocking up my table going through stock boxes, pulled out 4 coins and then made me a stupidly low offer for them...do you honestly think I should be happy about it? Guys like that often get asked to leave.

Edit to add: I don't give the southbound end of a northbound rat whether someone is a cherrypicker or not...just don't waste my time!

bigtonydallas · September 9, 2009 7:37AM

I hate when dealers ask what would pay. Why not offer me X price. Then I could have made a decision if I wanted to pay that or not. If I had disguised them in a large lot, I feel he would have found them anyway. Maybe not. Ill have to rethink that idea.

Im not mad but just irritated.

He also said before he asked me what I wanted for them that he did not know he had these small dates. I guess if I had bought 36 other common memorial cents and asked him if he would take $10 for them he might have bit at the idea.

bigtonydallas · September 9, 2009 7:38AM

Telephoto1 . I wont be looking at your tables then. Or maybe I will... lol

bigtonydallas · September 9, 2009 7:41AM

If the dealer had put on the holders that they were small dates the I would have offered him more. Why cant dealers do the amount of time I DO reading and searching for varieties?

PerryHall · September 9, 2009 7:44AM

I love cherrypicking dealers like coalporter and telephoto1.

telephoto1 · September 9, 2009 7:51AM

Why cant dealers do the amount of time I DO reading and searching for varieties?

Oh, I dunno...maybe because they have a business to run, can't be all things to all people, and they don't always have time to go through 20,000 coins one at a time with a magnifyer looking for every insignificant die chip? Hey, if you find something cool, whatever-I don't care. Just don't insult my intelligence or waste my time. Buy something. That's all I ask.

barbershopper · September 9, 2009 12:32PM

I would absolutely keep the fact of a full roll of high $ coins secret and take a year to peddle them.

JT

hammered54 · September 9, 2009 12:47PM

<< If someone wasted a bunch of my time blocking up my table going through stock boxes, pulled out 4 coins and then made me a stupidly low offer for them...do you honestly think I should be happy about it? Guys like that often get asked to leave.

Edit to add: I don't give the southbound end of a northbound rat whether someone is a cherrypicker or not...just don't waste my time! >>

so why are the box's there again?

fcloud · September 9, 2009 12:57PM

I had a local dealer let me go through a huge bucket of mercury dime. I pulled out any varieties I could find, and he sold them to me at melt.

zap1111 · September 9, 2009 1:05PM

Are you asking me what I did with my roll of unc 55 DDOs?

SamByrd · September 9, 2009 1:14PM

<< Why exactly are you mad again? >>

I would like to know that as well... the dealer is selling coins and you did not buy whats the point?.
The dealer was correct to sell an item in his stock that he owns for fair market value in
this case 2 people thought 30 bucks was fair market. Dose not matter if he did not know he had them at
all. Make a fair offer and most of the time you walk away with a coin. 5 bucks for a small date c'mon.

TexasNationals · September 9, 2009 1:20PM

Not really cherrypicking, obviously he knew they were small dates as did you. The spirit of cherry picking is to pick out of stock, varieties worth far more than how they are labled/marked/believed to be, and so on. I was at the show and saw the coins, heck they were offered to me and I passed. I had a bunch of varieties in 2x2's with me that were not marked DDO or DDR. I knew any anyone willing to look at common date coins worth 25c without the variety, I assume they know too. It is not a game to me, I just don't have time to mark every $40 coin with the FS#, Breen #, Snow# and so on.

Tdec1000 · September 9, 2009 1:40PM

<< If the dealer had put on the holders that they were small dates the I would have offered him more. Why cant dealers do the amount of time I DO reading and searching for varieties? >>

There are a lot of dealers that do....many just don't let you know that they know stuff

Being a Cherrypicker myself, I have to say that you didn't cherrypick him if he knew they were indeed small dates. If you told him that they were then you screwed up because a 70s LD is not worth $5 maybe .20 cents in unc.

JMHO

telephoto1 · September 10, 2009 7:01AM

<< 

<< If someone wasted a bunch of my time blocking up my table going through stock boxes, pulled out 4 coins and then made me a stupidly low offer for them...do you honestly think I should be happy about it? Guys like that often get asked to leave.

Edit to add: I don't give the southbound end of a northbound rat whether someone is a cherrypicker or not...just don't waste my time! >>

so why are the box's there again? >>

They are there for collectors to find things to fill holes with, and I'll gladly work with serious buyers. They are not there for someone to spend 2 hours killing time going through each and every coin with a glass looking for something I missed, undergraded, priced too cheaply or forgot to mark, mixing them all up, then pulling out maybe two coins- only to offer me half of what I paid for them... or, more often than not, just getting up and leaving without buying anything when he realizes he can't rip anything.

bigtonydallas · September 10, 2009 8:55AM

Texasnational;
You are right that it was not cherrypicking and I should have not been upset. A dealer can sell a coin for $40 but only pay$5 and that is ok. This is possibly his livelyhood. I apologize to all the dealers. I have cherrypicked many dealers for not only varieties but laziness too. I bought an 1895-O Barber dime from a dealers silver melt box in VG. I am sure he bought this coin in either a bulk buy or was distracted when he was judging the coin. I paid $3 and sold it for $40. I probably could have sold it on ebay for $60-80 because it was just short of a fine.

Telephoto1,
I usually go to dealers that do not have anyone at their tables. I DO NOT go thru every coin in the boxes looking for every variety. I maybe unique but I have spent an hour or two at a dealers table. I try to buy something. even if it is just a few small rpm's. I can go thru a lot of coins in a very short time. I look for RPM's RPD's and the major varieties. I use to find new varieties but found out most don't get a premium. I am looking to make a few bucks as well as this is a hobby and a side business to me. I just felt the 1970-s small dates were very very bad. I congradulated him on selling 2 at $30 and I directed him to dealer from Arkansas that I knew was looking for a 1970-s small date. You win some you loose some.

To list some of the varieties I have found, 1894/94 indian cent fine, 1928-d/d rpm#1 ms63, 1939 ddr jefferson au, 1939 qdr jefferson ms64, 1936 ddo buff in ms63, 1942-d/horiz d fine, 1857 flying eagle ddo, 1936 ddo lincoln #1 fine, 1936 ddo lincoln #2 fine, 1909 vdb lincoln ddo #2 in ms60, 1947 ddr lincoln #2 ms65, many buff 2 feathers, 1936-s/s buff in fine. In the past I found about 5 new varieties but not major.

highbidder1970 · September 10, 2009 9:33AM

Bc my Junk Box is high profit cheap coins less than $25, I don't care for cherrypickers spending a lot of time going thru it. I will run them off if they take too long at my table. My JB is for beginning and budget collectors to sell my cheap items at a strong profit. Coins are fairly priced at CW Trends and I will fudge the price down 10-20% depending on how much they pick out.

TexasNationals · September 10, 2009 9:49AM

BigTonyDallas, I am not a dealer, just help a nother dealer at shows sometimes. If anyone is complaining about blocking a table, well they should have gone to this show, it was DEAD DEAD DEAD! I would have been happy to have someone sit there and go through all my 2x2's. Off topic, they really shouldn't have messed with the dates when they moved it from Green Oak, Labor day weekend? Football? It was just dealers selling to other dealers. Plus the table price was a little high. I know many dealers who won't be doing that show again. That is what we talked about as we packed up and left at 2pm on Saturday. I wasn't sitting aroung till 6pm nor coming back on Sunday. Maybe it picked up, but I doubt it.

hammered54 · September 10, 2009 10:09AM

. They are not there for someone to spend 2 hours killing time going through each and every coin with a glass looking for something I missed, undergraded, priced too cheaply or forgot to mark,

thought that that's what collecting coin's was all about... looking for that one or two coin's that fill that hole. even if it take's a while.

telephoto1 · September 11, 2009 6:11AM

<< . They are not there for someone to spend 2 hours killing time going through each and every coin with a glass looking for something I missed, undergraded, priced too cheaply or forgot to mark,

thought that that's what collecting coin's was all about... looking for that one or two coin's that fill that hole. even if it take's a while. >>

Filling holes means you are specifically looking for coins for your collection/album and you are working on a want list...that is different from just wasting time trolling for someone else's mistakes. Some people don't get the concept that a dealer's time, overhead, and investment all have value.

bigtonydallas · September 11, 2009 6:58AM

what if my collection is rpms or rpds? i am just trying to fill holes too? I understand your time and investment have value but what about my time?

lathmach · September 11, 2009 7:10AM

I look through dealers stock boxes for better varieties.
The dealers want to sell their coins so whats the problem?

Ray

telephoto1 · September 11, 2009 8:58AM

<< I look through dealers stock boxes for better varieties.
The dealers want to sell their coins so whats the problem?

Ray >>

There's no problem, Ray- if they are there to actually buy something and not just waste time going on a fishing expedition looking for my screwups, or insult my intelligence by assuming I don't know the diff between a small and large date or know anything about new varieties, etc. I got to a point where I stopped taking proof sets to shows unless I was blowing out a lot to another dealer, because inevitably someone would go through every set, dinging up the boxes and breaking hinge pins as they went along, looking for small dates, type 2's, and cameo stuff that they could slab and flip...as if I was too dumb to know the market or to look for such things. I've had people wanting to go through my junk silver as well, and they get offended when I tell them no, it's for sale in bulk only. Why do I need to let someone pick through 5000 junk dimes one at a time only to perhaps buy 3, if any, when I can sell the whole load in one clip at the same price with a phone call? Does anyone understand what I'm getting at here?

Sorry if I'm offending the pickers out there, it's not my intent really... but dealers at a show (or in a shop for that matter) have x amount of time to do as much biz as possible...and someone taking an hour or more going through boxes while others are trying to look at stuff, only to get up and leave without buying anything has just wasted some of that time. Period. It's not personal; it's a business thing. And I'm sure I'll hear stories now about how "this guy and that guy doesn't mind..." Hey, if some other dealer places less value on his time and doesn't mind that, good for him/her. I'll pass on that $20 sale where I'm making perhaps $5 and taking an hour or longer to do it. If they even buy something that is.

seatedcollector · September 11, 2009 10:16AM

ray, knowing you, im betting you dont sit at a guys table, pile all your books all over his cases, then spend three hours fiddle-f##king through every coin, all the while the dealer makes NO other sales because no one can see anything. and ya have to keep an eye on the guy with the box, i am not a dealer but i have witnessed this on enough occasions that i side with the dealer when it comes to cherry picking, they can tell a chery picker a mile away, this dealer played the guy, he should be mad, but it shouldnt be at the dealer, it should be at HIMSELF if the box wasnt marked, why in the world would you sit there for hours and go through every coin not knowing if they were priced at a dollar or $50 each ?

seatedcollector · September 11, 2009 10:28AM

now if the box says $1 each, then by all means, he should be allowed to spend (waste) as much time as he wants to looking through every coin, gather up four and give the guy a $10, keep the change. but dont be surprised if he reaches behind the counter and dumps another 100 coins in front of you if you wanna look through them. i get a kick out of the way a dealer reacts to a tip. even a few bucks which isnt gonna actually buy jack, but thier facial expression gleans with appreciation.

bigtonydallas · September 11, 2009 11:55AM

I still dont understand the animosity towards cherrypickers. I understand the dealer not wanting someone to not tie up his boxes and then not buy anything.

Even today I would not pay over $5 for each of those small dates as they were pretty bad. Also other dealers passed on his coins for $30. I felt they were not worth it. So if you had a 1909-s VDB and I offered $5 you would feel insulted? If he would have offered to sell the small dates at $15 I would have said no still. I make a decision as you do on what I will pay for a coin. Whether it is a variety or not. I also dont go thru proof sets as I dont want to destroy the cases too.

telephoto1 · September 12, 2009 2:24AM

I still dont understand the animosity towards cherrypickers. I understand the dealer not wanting someone to not tie up his boxes and then not buy anything.

If you understand the latter, then you understand the former. And it's not just cherrypickers.

So if you had a 1909-s VDB and I offered $5 you would feel insulted?

Assuming you were serious, what do you think?

rec78 · September 12, 2009 3:05AM

If a dealer has a big bin of lower priced coins, he should not mind if someone spends a lot of time going through it. That is what it is there for. If you don't want someone to waste time looking at them, then why have them?

telephoto1 · September 12, 2009 3:14AM

<< If a dealer has a big bin of lower priced coins, he should not mind if someone spends a lot of time going through it. That is what it is there for. If you don't want someone to waste time looking at them, then why have them? >>

I said stock boxes, not necessarily lower priced...But, if it's a junk box, expect junk coins. Not rare varieties or stuff you can slab and flip.

Cherrypicking?

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