Ebay coin sale hypothetical. Ever walk from a deal as the seller?

coinmanic · September 3, 2009 1:07AM

Your coin auction ends and it realizes the $1200 or so that you expected. You receive an email from a recognized expert on the series stating that the coin is a rare variety that is easily worth 3 times the final price. You do a bit of research and confirm that she is correct.

Do you dutifully complete the deal or politely tell the auction winner to take a hike?

If you do follow through on the sale, is there any threshold where you would not, say $5000 or $10,000 or more?

tmcsr69 · September 3, 2009 1:10AM

Tough ethics question. I assume that I would at some price, cancel the sale. For a few hundred dollars-No. For several thousand-I would think long and hard.

STONE · September 3, 2009 1:14AM

As the buyer, I don't understand why you would tell the seller this information.

And, the seller should have done his/her homework beforehand!

Complete the sale

doh · September 3, 2009 1:16AM

<< Tough ethics question. I assume that I would at some price, cancel the sale. For a few hundred dollars-No. For several thousand-I would think long and hard. >>

rgCoinGuy · September 3, 2009 1:17AM

<< As the buyer, I don't understand why you would tell the seller this information.

And, the seller should have done his/her homework beforehand!

Complete the sale >>

I agree, and if not, accept the negative that you deserve.

coinmanic · September 3, 2009 1:22AM

The informant in this hypothetical case was not the winning bidder. She spotted the auction after it had ended.

abitofthisabitofthat · September 3, 2009 1:27AM

<< Tough ethics question. I assume that I would at some price, cancel the sale. For a few hundred dollars-No. For several thousand-I would think long and hard. >>

This is not a tough question at all. Complete the sale. Period.

seanq · September 3, 2009 1:27AM

The "right" answer is to thank the expert, congratulate the winner, and do your homework next time. Here on planet Earth, I think I'd have a hard time doing that.

In the situation in the OP, where it's thousands of dollars I'm leaving on the table, I'd probably be tempted to try and negotiate a new price with the auction winner (assuming he knew the correct attribution), somewhere between the final hammer and the expert's appraisal. For a few hundred bucks, I'm completing the sale and taking my lumps.

Sean Reynolds

cone10 · September 3, 2009 1:33AM

Is this a reference to the R6 1806 holed half that sold on ebay the other day and are you the seller?

coinmanic · September 3, 2009 1:38AM

<< Is this a reference to the R6 1806 holed half that sold on ebay the other day and are you the seller?

>>

That thread did inspire this hypothetical. Nope, I am not the seller of the holed half. I am sure that he is outside now frantically trying to detect another.

RBinTex · September 3, 2009 1:40AM

THIS ONE?

Wolf359 · September 3, 2009 1:42AM

<< Your coin auction ends and it realizes the $1200 or so that you expected. You receive an email from a recognized expert on the series stating that the coin is a rare variety that is easily worth 3 times the final price. You do a bit of research and confirm that she is correct.

Do you dutifully complete the deal or politely tell the auction winner to take a hike?

If you do follow through on the sale, is there any threshold where you would not, say $5000 or $10,000 or more? >>

You complete the sale, period. The amount of money is irrelevant.

Of course, I just had a seller who completed the sale, accepted payment and then walked a day later. In coins, and in life, a deal is a deal
and all we are is our word. Needless to say, I won't be doing business with that seller again.

coinmanic · September 3, 2009 2:25AM

I would suspect that most all of us have a number somewhere where we would cancel the deal. I know that I do.

WinPitcher · September 3, 2009 3:37AM

It's very easy to state you would take the high road when no real money is involved.

Steve

adamlaneus · September 3, 2009 3:43AM

It's quite simple easily.

Everyone should be prepared for this contingency.

It takes just a little bit of planning and can help with so many of life's situations.

Just fake your own death

oxy8890 · September 3, 2009 4:45AM

<< 

<< Tough ethics question. I assume that I would at some price, cancel the sale. For a few hundred dollars-No. For several thousand-I would think long and hard. >>

This is not a tough question at all. Complete the sale. Period. >>

ABSOLUTELY! Well said, the deal is done!

It simple folks: You made a deal. For those of you that have never posted on EBAY or anywhere else, look at this thread as lesson on adding one more step (that step being researching the variety of a coin as well as the value) to your procedure before you post a coin. If you choose to skip this step you may save some time. But don't complain or whine when you miss a big payout because you did not do your research.

What amazes me about this forum is: For all of the integrity, ownership for actions and accountability people often TALK ABOUT AND PREACH HERE, it is humorous how many individuals will take a scenario, twist it and justify it for their personal monetary gain.

Maybe it's the times, but IMHO it's still un flipping real.

WinPitcher · September 3, 2009 4:48AM

Is their a true meeting of the minds in this hypothetical situation?

Steve

GoldenEyeNumismatics · September 3, 2009 4:48AM

Depends who the buyer is and what my financial circumstances are and if I'm willing to take a neg.

In 99.9% of circumstances, I'd follow through with the transaction.

PerryHall · September 3, 2009 5:39AM

<< It's very easy to state you would take the high road when no real money is involved. >>

Very good point. Everyone here is totally honest when it doesn't cost them anything.

airjoedan · September 3, 2009 5:53AM

<< Is this a reference to the R6 1806 holed half that sold on ebay the other day and are you the seller?

>>

I'm a sports collectibles guy - but this has me curious...

What is so special about that coin and what is its actual worth? If it was a big story, what is the general rundown of the facts? Sounds interesting!

Ethics at hand, chalk it up and better luck. You put your word on it and can't reneg. The only reason for someone to consider not selling after the completed auction would be if it were a situation where a house would be lost or health payments need to be made...etc. Anyways, any coin guys.....if there is an interesting story to the coin mentioned above, please post. Thanks!

- Joe

seanq · September 3, 2009 5:59AM

<< What amazes me about this forum is: For all of the integrity, ownership for actions and accountability people often TALK ABOUT AND PREACH HERE, it is humorous how many individuals will take a scenario, twist it and justify it for their personal monetary gain.

Maybe it's the times, but IMHO it's still un flipping real.

>>

I'm just being brutally honest. In theory, and most of the time in practice, a deal is a deal. But I'll admit that there is a line where I'd seriously have to consider whether the hit to my reputation was outweighed by the impact the money would have for my family. I don't know exactly where that line is, but I'd be disingenuous to pretend the line doesn't exist.

Sean Reynolds

WinPitcher · September 3, 2009 6:38AM

Because the coin turned out to be a variety it was not described properly.

Thus the ebay deal could be voided.

(Thanks Robert)

Steve

PerryHall · September 3, 2009 7:14AM

What if you sent the buyer the coin and it got "lost" in the mail? I guess you would owe him a full refund.

pennyannie · September 3, 2009 7:24AM

5 years ago i would have completed the sale reguardless of the money involved. With the new EBAY i would have 2nd thoughts if the amount was more than 2500 and a easy grab.

I had 2 issues with my first 2500 auctions, i have had at least 10 no pays in the last year and another 10 than wanted to change the terms or whatever after the auction closed. I no longer feel that ebay looks out for my best intrest and so i would have no remorse telling a buyer the coin is lost, no longer for sale, presold or whatever for a easy 2500 or more dollars. Under 2500 i would complete the sale.

renomedphys · September 3, 2009 7:36AM

Once, I broke something packaging up an item that I sold and accepted payment for. Payment refunded. All transgressions were forgiven.

An item was also lost in the mail, but then at least I had a tracking number showing no delivery to back up my story. I eventually was paid for the item by the PO, but I was out of pocket until they paid me (4-5 weeks later).

If it were me, I would likely complete the deal and wash my hands of the matter, but if you really want to keep the coin, you could try to just explain to the buyer that you would prefer not to sell the item, as circumstances have changed, and that the sale is no longer warranted.

abitofthisabitofthat · September 3, 2009 7:40AM

You know the old joke. Supposedly told about George Bernard Shaw (some attribute it to Sir Winston Churchill). An aristocratic lady and Shaw are talking at a party. Shaw asks if she would sleep with him for 1-million pounds. She agrees. Then Shaw asks if she’d do it for five pounds. She replies, “What do you think I am?” Shaw says, “We’ve already established what you are, ma’am. Now we’re just haggling over the price.”

What does the value have to do with it? You sold an item for the price you wanted. So, someone else stands to earn a windfall profit - what is that to you? Nothing. Backing out of the deal is flat out wrong. Based upon the idea of value having something to do with it, you should say - "I won't rob a convenience store, but I would rob Fort Knox". A robbery would still be a robbery, and will always be wrong. Breaking a deal that was agreed to will always be wrong, regardless of the value involved.

I am very surprised by the responses here on this one.

doh · September 3, 2009 7:50AM

<< "I won't rob a convenience store, but I would rob Fort Knox". A robbery would still be a robbery, and will always be wrong. Breaking a deal that was agreed to will always be wrong, regardless of the value involved.

I am very surprised by the responses here on this one. >>

You're comparing robbing a store with backing out of an eBay transaction?? That's hilarious. While completing the transaction is the right thing to do (no one's arguing that), most people would not do it if $5K was on the line. $500? Yeah, I'd go head and complete it and take my lumps. However, 5 grand is more than worth a negative feedback and I'm pretty sure most people here feel the same way when it involves REAL money, not monopoly money that affords the luxury of "what if."

PrivateCoinCollector · September 3, 2009 8:08AM

I agree it just a matter of how much. It is easy to take the high road when no real money is involved, but anyone would reconsider the deal if the money was high enough. Maybe 3 times does not move you (cough, cough), but what if it was 10 times, 20 times? I would love to see someone swallow that hard. What I didn't see in the thread was offering the truth. If the coin sold for $1,200 there is nothing wrong with telling the person there was an ommission in the ad (which there was) and that you are refunding their money plus say $100-$200 for the trouble. Now if the person was buying it for the variety (in other words they knew what it was) they would know they got caught in a rip and are still be compensated. If they didn't know they made an instant profit. Who loses here? The ripper? C'Est la Vie.

abitofthisabitofthat · September 3, 2009 8:33AM

<< 

<< "I won't rob a convenience store, but I would rob Fort Knox". A robbery would still be a robbery, and will always be wrong. Breaking a deal that was agreed to will always be wrong, regardless of the value involved.

I am very surprised by the responses here on this one. >>

You're comparing robbing a store with backing out of an eBay transaction?? That's hilarious. While completing the transaction is the right thing to do (no one's arguing that), most people would not do it if $5K was on the line. $500? Yeah, I'd go head and complete it and take my lumps. However, 5 grand is more than worth a negative feedback and I'm pretty sure most people here feel the same way when it involves REAL money, not monopoly money that affords the luxury of "what if." >>

No, I am not comparing robbing a store with backing out of an ebay transaction. The point was that the nature of your behavior should not be different based upon the dollar amount. The point was made to highlight the fact that most people say the robbery would be wrong, regardless of amount. Yet, they say breaking a deal is OK, based upon a certain threshhold. I don't get it. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. Breaking a deal is wrong.

abitofthisabitofthat · September 3, 2009 8:35AM

<< I agree it just a matter of how much. It is easy to take the high road when no real money is involved, but anyone would reconsider the deal if the money was high enough. Maybe 3 times does not move you (cough, cough), but what if it was 10 times, 20 times? I would love to see someone swallow that hard. What I didn't see in the thread was offering the truth. If the coin sold for $1,200 there is nothing wrong with telling the person there was an ommission in the ad (which there was) and that you are refunding their money plus say $100-$200 for the trouble. Now if the person was buying it for the variety (in other words they knew what it was) they would know they got caught in a rip and are still be compensated. If they didn't know they made an instant profit. Who loses here? The ripper? C'Est la Vie. >>

What do you mean, swallow that hard? You are not losing anything by completing the transaction. You are making a fair profit selling an item as a type coin. $20 bucks, $20 grand, the answer is the same.

Lakesammman · September 3, 2009 8:37AM

Sell - consider it tuition money.

Lakesammman · September 3, 2009 8:38AM

PS - No one is going to tell you that you are an idiot until they have the coin in hand.

WinPitcher · September 3, 2009 8:38AM

Doesn't the fact that the item was described INCORRECTLY matter?

Flip the roles, the seller claims it is the variety and gets 5k for it, the buyer finds out later that it is not.

Can the seller tell the buyer a deal is a deal?

Steve

frnklnlvr · September 3, 2009 10:30AM

<< Doesn't the fact that the item was described INCORRECTLY matter?

Flip the roles, the seller claims it is the variety and gets 5k for it, the buyer finds out later that it is not.

Can the seller tell the buyer a deal is a deal?

Steve >>

So any coin that's a variety and doesn't mention it in the description is described incorrectly?

notwilight · September 3, 2009 11:06AM

I guess we all have our price....Hmmmm, thinking of that perhaps I should go to Mexico this weekend...

oxy8890 · September 3, 2009 12:08PM

<< You know the old joke. Supposedly told about George Bernard Shaw (some attribute it to Sir Winston Churchill). An aristocratic lady and Shaw are talking at a party. Shaw asks if she would sleep with him for 1-million pounds. She agrees. Then Shaw asks if she’d do it for five pounds. She replies, “What do you think I am?” Shaw says, “We’ve already established what you are, ma’am. Now we’re just haggling over the price.”

What does the value have to do with it? You sold an item for the price you wanted. So, someone else stands to earn a windfall profit - what is that to you? Nothing. Backing out of the deal is flat out wrong. Based upon the idea of value having something to do with it, you should say - "I won't rob a convenience store, but I would rob Fort Knox". A robbery would still be a robbery, and will always be wrong. Breaking a deal that was agreed to will always be wrong, regardless of the value involved.

I am very surprised by the responses here on this one. >>

I was thinking of that joke as well as I read this thread.

SamByrd · September 3, 2009 12:25PM

<< 

<< 

<< Tough ethics question. I assume that I would at some price, cancel the sale. For a few hundred dollars-No. For several thousand-I would think long and hard. >>

This is not a tough question at all. Complete the sale. Period. >>

ABSOLUTELY! Well said, the deal is done!

It simple folks: You made a deal. For those of you that have never posted on EBAY or anywhere else, look at this thread as lesson on adding one more step (that step being researching the variety of a coin as well as the value) to your procedure before you post a coin. If you choose to skip this step you may save some time. But don't complain or whine when you miss a big payout because you did not do your research.

What amazes me about this forum is: For all of the integrity, ownership for actions and accountability people often TALK ABOUT AND PREACH HERE, it is humorous how many individuals will take a scenario, twist it and justify it for their personal monetary gain.

Maybe it's the times, but IMHO it's still un flipping real.

>>

I was worried until I read this response, that is right 100 % well said. I myself would not back out or welch on a deal. I would stick to my hand shake and an auction is a good as one, ones word should matter and even if you lose a few bucks its not worth the cost of my own integrity at least not to me. We can earn more money but its not so easy to regain ones integrity once it is lost, as stated there is a price level for that for a lot of folks.

tydye · September 3, 2009 1:36PM

I put myself in a just such a situation recently. I sold a 1 oz silver bar on ebay for $50 with a buy it now. I did a quick scan prior to listing it and it looked like they usually go for about 50-75. So I listed it. Sold in about a minute. Then a flood of emails came in - do you have any more etc. Then I got one guy that told me that the bar was easily worth $600. Turns out it was a rare one in the series. Damn!
I procrastinated sending it out the next day thinking how could I get out of this. But then decided that the extra $550 was not worth the guilt so I shipped it the following day. And I felt pretty good about it. And I learned a good lesson. I then proceeded to go on a book buying spree picking up ones that I was planning on getting but never got around to

WinPitcher · September 3, 2009 11:28PM

So any coin that's a variety and doesn't mention it in the description is described incorrectly?

Basically put, yes. Especially where the values are spread like they are in this case.

If seller makes a mistake he does not have to complete the sale.

Of course it would be up to a court to decide if a mistake was made.

Steve

WinPitcher · September 3, 2009 11:35PM

Does anyone know any dealers that would follow through on such a transaction?

it has nothing to do with integrity or even ethics, the coin (or any item for that matter) was not described
properly and thus a mistake was made.

No one answered my earlier question. Suppose the roles were reversed? Suppose a seller claimed it was the variety and received 5k for it
and after the buyer received it, later found it was not? Is it still a deal is a deal?

Steve

edited typo

notwilight · September 3, 2009 11:38PM

<< Does anyone know any dealers that would follow through on such a transaction?

it has nothing to do with integrity or even ethics, the coin (or any item for that matter) was not described
properly and thus a mistake was made.

No one answered my earlier question. Suppose the roles were reversed? Suppose a seller claimed it was the variety and received 5k for it
and after the buyer received it, later found it was not? Is it still a deal is a deal?

Steve

edited typo >>

I'm a dealer and I would follow through. I would probably write the buyer, ask if they knew it was rare or were they buying it for bullion. If they were not interested in the rare piece, I would offer to split the profit with them and pay them $250 to drop out of the deal.

As for the reversal, that is different--not as described, no deal.

--Jerry

shorecoll · September 4, 2009 1:01AM

Would you for a million? Yes. How bout $10. What do you think I am? We know what you are, we're just negotiating the price!

Sorry if someone else said this, I didn't read every post.

RBinTex · September 4, 2009 1:56AM

"I'm just being brutally honest. In theory, and most of the time in practice, a deal is a deal. But I'll admit that there is a line where I'd seriously have to consider whether the hit to my reputation was outweighed by the impact the money would have for my family. I don't know exactly where that line is, but I'd be disingenuous to pretend the line doesn't exist.

Sean Reynolds"

Sean. Most if not all agree with you even if they refuse to admit it. Especially when their own individual financial situation gets factored in.

Take it to another degree. You sell a PCGS MS66RD 1969-S Lincoln Cent on eBay for $75 or so. You realize before shipping it that the PCGS holder failed to properly attribute it as a 1969-S doubled die (single finest known & now a $500k+ coin)!
Yeah, everyone here would still ship it right?

C'mon people, you all have your price.

pennyannie · September 4, 2009 3:28AM

RBintex- I agree with you. Of course it is easier to say that i would follow thru with the deal on the internet than to tell the thruth of what you would really do.

seanq · November 3, 2009 2:14AM

Seemed appropriate to bump this thread since we've got a real-life example of this situation paying out in this thread.

Sean Reynolds

tradedollarnut · November 3, 2009 2:22AM

I'm realistic. I would complete the deal unless I just couldn't live with the consequences. If breaking the deal meant putting food on the table or clothes on my kids, then I'd do so. If it meant more latte money, then I'd follow through on it.

mkman123 · November 3, 2009 2:22AM

I'll be truthful if it was a small difference like I sold the coin for 100 and its worth 500, I'd go ahead and ship it and let the buyer know that they got a good deal. However what if the coin sold for 100 and its worth 150k?? Sorry but I might cancel on the buyer. Thats a lot of money that could go to my family.

MikeInFL · November 3, 2009 2:23AM

Capitalism and ethics make strange bedfellows.

crypto79 · November 3, 2009 3:05AM

Guess it's just me and I do consider myself a straight up guy but I would inform to guy that (by phone of course) the circumstances have changed and we need to work out a different price. I would give him first crack and a slight discount while on the phone. Granted I do not own a B&M and do not have to factor in word of mouth to my bottom line. I might hook up the person who tipped me off though.

mr1931S · November 3, 2009 3:29AM

I nearly did and the main considerations I was having were the actions of the buyer who:

Distorted my images of the coin and listed the coin for sale with his own bogus higher grade/price.

I hadn't even shipped the coin to him when I saw his auction.

I got no feedback from this buyer.I guess leaving feedback would too inconvenient for him considering the questions that might arise from his buyers.

Lesson learned by mr1874:

Actions of the buyer while I still have the coin in my possession might cause me to walk away from a deal as the seller.

yellowkid · November 3, 2009 3:41AM

In the past on eBay I have purchased antiques that I stood to make great profits on. In two cases the pieces "were damaged" and the sale never went through, I know that the seller's were alerted in at least one of the sales. As a private seller, you stand to lose say thousands of dollars? I have to say that the piece might get "damaged".

Ebay coin sale hypothetical. Ever walk from a deal as the seller?

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