I know people like high-end everything but this is still one of the rarest coins of all US history (esp 20th Cen) with a amazing back story struck in a little used but highly romanticized medium (high relief). Would you laugh at a 1964 d if it had been polished? I think not, well this coin is basically the same thing. It's a minted business strike coin that was recalled/ melted and never released. It has more value and significance than 99% of the coins in people collections on this forum and you could probably count on your fingers the people who contribute regularly who could buy and hold a coin of this scale. I think a lot of the distain for this is sour grapes and or ignorance of the topic.
<< <i>I know people like high-end everything but this is still one of the rarest coins of all US history (esp 20th Cen) with a amazing back story struck in a little used but highly romanticized medium (high relief). Would you laugh at a 1964 d if it had been polished? I think not, well this coin is basically the same thing. It's a minted business strike coin that was recalled/ melted and never released. It has more value and significance than 99% of the coins in people collections on this forum and you could probably count on your fingers the people who contribute regularly who could buy and hold a coin of this scale. I think a lot of the distain for this is sour grapes and or ignorance of the topic. >>
...and, as an aside, I like the clear holder NCS uses; much better than the white pronged holder.
Always looking for attractive rim toned Morgan and Peace dollars in PCGS or (older) ANA/ANACS holders!
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
<< <i>If I had 50 grand to plunk down, I think I'd shop for a better example! >>
the only two known of this exact coin are in NCS and cleaned/damage & mislabled. I think this is probably the better of the two, sad to say. I would guess that they were given to a VIP or VIP's who weren't coin people but never got the recall order.
<< <i>If I had the money I would and It would immediately go into PCGS plastic >>
If that was your desire, you'd be wise to make it a condition of the purchase. >>
A coin of this scale you contact one of the old gaurd dealers and have them go directly to David Hall with what you are looking for from his company and what you think you have.
Whatever extra sharpness and beauty that coin had from its Matte Proof status is gone due to wear and cleaning. If that were a 1921, there would be huge doubts that it is a Proof. It's only because of the high relief, which was not seen on the regular 1922 dollars, that you can tell that it is a Proof.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>If I had the money I would and It would immediately go into PCGS plastic >>
If that was your desire, you'd be wise to make it a condition of the purchase. >>
A coin of this scale you contact one of the old gaurd dealers and have them go directly to David Hall with what you are looking for from his company and what you think you have. >>
I think I have a little more experience in that than you and I'll tell you right now it doesn't always work out well.
<< <i>If I had the money I would and It would immediately go into PCGS plastic >>
If that was your desire, you'd be wise to make it a condition of the purchase. >>
A coin of this scale you contact one of the old gaurd dealers and have them go directly to David Hall with what you are looking for from his company and what you think you have. >>
I think I have a little more experience in that than you and I'll tell you right now it doesn't always work out well. >>
I would buy that, And I didn't say which way the wind would blow. But If you think you have a special coin you don't send it baulk. You give them a heads up what coming and any provenience and research you have already compiled. At that point they will do their due diligence and decide if it will make it in one of their slabs and what that slab will say while balancing their standards(like policy for BM proofs comes to mind) protecting their insurance & providing customer service.
This coin is documented by the mint and has established research, it just wasn't thought to still exists till a couple of years ago. It has a confirmed rev die of the 21 business strike coin(if it is what i think it is) were the proof vs has a unique rev die that has a different design not just markers(of note the med relief die was based off of the proof ones).
IF you want the coin in a PCGS holder then it's best just to make it a condition of the sale. Believe me, if I couldn't get the Eliasberg 1885 trade dollar to cross then not all special coins will cross - despite all the 1804 dollars seeming to go up a grade every few years as they change holders.
Also, as previously noted, it is misattributed. (Misattribution is nothing new for Peace dollars of 1921-22. The early pattern and trial prices went from "simple" in Wally Breen's day, to complicated today.)
To answer the ops question... at the present time, I would not have enuf scratch to purchase a coin such as that one, or any other over the designated price tag in my head for a coin.
But, I have to say it like this... I think it is very funny who is on what side of this debate.
Here is a classic, true rarity (possibly until 10 more come out of the wood work) with significant issues in the 50K ballpark.
I could change the coin and price... and those same people would be in totally different places on the spectrum... i.e. a pop 1 not-so-modern going for moon money where a top-pop 5 in the same series is cheap, and all would still be bashed. I guess it all goes down to total rarity. If there are only a handful of known coins, someones gonna buy it, no matter the price. Those whales that specialize in Peace $'s are probably already working on the debate in their head whether or not it's worth it.
Therefore, I conclude... it just doesn't matter to me. All the hypotheticals for me to own such a coin just doesn't seem plausible.
Congrats to the new owner, whichever one of you buys the coin. But, beware the pop changes of March (to totally destroy Shakespeare).
Peace, from (and back again after 2 weeks of R&R in) the Middle East!
Steve
U.S. Air Force Security Forces Retired
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
I'm pretty sure I have a business strike high relief 1922.
Even though this coin is VERY worn, the last digit is not a "1", you can see the outline of the "2" when the coin is tilted. My eyes are not the only set that have seen this!
When I brought it over to the ANACS table a few years back at a show, they just looked at the reverse and said "nope its a '21 since its doesnt have the long ray on the reverse" and handed it back to me without looking at the obverse. But, as KyleKnap stated on the 1st page of this post "highly interesting piece for debate given the short-ray reverse die" So maybe one day this coin will be labeled correctly as a 1922.
<< <i>Inditonka, your coin is cool - where is the damage?
the $50K coin if cracked out could come back as a PCGS genuine 1922 cleaned worth about $13 >>
this coin is worth a lot of money raw, I could be in a zip lock bag and be worth many thousands. if you think what you wrote you do not understand the difference. It is not just the surface the whole coin is different, it's not like a reg proof that lost its mirrors. This is one of the kind of coins that the slab makes very little difference in value, ANACS, NCS or PCGS it is what it is and there are only two known(22short ray) while it represents a type that has less than a dozen known(22HR)
Comments
<< <i>I know people like high-end everything but this is still one of the rarest coins of all US history (esp 20th Cen) with a amazing back story struck in a little used but highly romanticized medium (high relief). Would you laugh at a 1964 d if it had been polished? I think not, well this coin is basically the same thing. It's a minted business strike coin that was recalled/ melted and never released. It has more value and significance than 99% of the coins in people collections on this forum and you could probably count on your fingers the people who contribute regularly who could buy and hold a coin of this scale. I think a lot of the distain for this is sour grapes and or ignorance of the topic. >>
...and, as an aside, I like the clear holder NCS uses; much better than the white pronged holder.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
<< <i>If I had 50 grand to plunk down, I think I'd shop for a better example! >>
the only two known of this exact coin are in NCS and cleaned/damage & mislabled. I think this is probably the better of the two, sad to say. I would guess that they were given to a VIP or VIP's who weren't coin people but never got the recall order.
<< <i>
<< <i>If I had the money I would and It would immediately go into PCGS plastic >>
If that was your desire, you'd be wise to make it a condition of the purchase.
A coin of this scale you contact one of the old gaurd dealers and have them go directly to David Hall with what you are looking for from his company and what you think you have.
Whatever extra sharpness and beauty that coin had from its Matte Proof status is gone due to wear and cleaning. If that were a 1921, there would be huge doubts that it is a Proof. It's only because of the high relief, which was not seen on the regular 1922 dollars, that you can tell that it is a Proof.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If I had the money I would and It would immediately go into PCGS plastic >>
If that was your desire, you'd be wise to make it a condition of the purchase.
A coin of this scale you contact one of the old gaurd dealers and have them go directly to David Hall with what you are looking for from his company and what you think you have. >>
I think I have a little more experience in that than you and I'll tell you right now it doesn't always work out well.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If I had the money I would and It would immediately go into PCGS plastic >>
If that was your desire, you'd be wise to make it a condition of the purchase.
A coin of this scale you contact one of the old gaurd dealers and have them go directly to David Hall with what you are looking for from his company and what you think you have. >>
I think I have a little more experience in that than you and I'll tell you right now it doesn't always work out well. >>
I would buy that, And I didn't say which way the wind would blow. But If you think you have a special coin you don't send it baulk. You give them a heads up what coming and any provenience and research you have already compiled. At that point they will do their due diligence and decide if it will make it in one of their slabs and what that slab will say while balancing their standards(like policy for BM proofs comes to mind) protecting their insurance & providing customer service.
This coin is documented by the mint and has established research, it just wasn't thought to still exists till a couple of years ago. It has a confirmed rev die of the 21 business strike coin(if it is what i think it is) were the proof vs has a unique rev die that has a different design not just markers(of note the med relief die was based off of the proof ones).
"Because I can"
myurl The Franklin All Old Green Holder Set
<< <i>I would have to have the RWB seal of approval before even considering the coin. >>
Isn't that what the red dot means?
WH
Also, as previously noted, it is misattributed. (Misattribution is nothing new for Peace dollars of 1921-22. The early pattern and trial prices went from "simple" in Wally Breen's day, to complicated today.)
But, I have to say it like this... I think it is very funny who is on what side of this debate.
Here is a classic, true rarity (possibly until 10 more come out of the wood work) with significant issues in the 50K ballpark.
I could change the coin and price... and those same people would be in totally different places on the spectrum... i.e. a pop 1 not-so-modern going for moon money where a top-pop 5 in the same series is cheap, and all would still be bashed. I guess it all goes down to total rarity. If there are only a handful of known coins, someones gonna buy it, no matter the price. Those whales that specialize in Peace $'s are probably already working on the debate in their head whether or not it's worth it.
Therefore, I conclude... it just doesn't matter to me. All the hypotheticals for me to own such a coin just doesn't seem plausible.
Congrats to the new owner, whichever one of you buys the coin. But, beware the pop changes of March (to totally destroy Shakespeare).
Peace, from (and back again after 2 weeks of R&R in) the Middle East!
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
i expect an impaired proof to cost a 1000 or two. :-)
Could I flip it and make 10% in month? Then maybe I would.
Steve
Even though this coin is VERY worn, the last digit is not a "1", you can see the outline of the "2" when the coin is tilted. My eyes are not the only set that have seen this!
When I brought it over to the ANACS table a few years back at a show, they just looked at the reverse and said "nope its a '21 since its doesnt have the long ray on the reverse" and handed it back to me without looking at the obverse. But, as KyleKnap stated on the 1st page of this post "highly interesting piece for debate given the short-ray reverse die" So maybe one day this coin will be labeled correctly as a 1922.
the $50K coin if cracked out could come back as a PCGS genuine 1922 cleaned worth about $13
<< <i> Inditonka, your coin is cool - where is the damage? >>
Obverse, about 10 o'clock. Looks like some sort of cut marks into the coin.
<< <i>Inditonka, your coin is cool - where is the damage?
the $50K coin if cracked out could come back as a PCGS genuine 1922 cleaned worth about $13 >>
this coin is worth a lot of money raw, I could be in a zip lock bag and be worth many thousands. if you think what you wrote you do not understand the difference. It is not just the surface the whole coin is different, it's not like a reg proof that lost its mirrors. This is one of the kind of coins that the slab makes very little difference in value, ANACS, NCS or PCGS it is what it is and there are only two known(22short ray) while it represents a type that has less than a dozen known(22HR)