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Aberlight
Posts: 384 ✭✭
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Aberlight
Posts: 384 ✭✭
Comments
I bought three and still enjoy them. I guess I like some color now & then.
Here's one....
<< <i>How much did that 2000-D Lincoln sell for? I may need to get some airbrush equipment
It's priceless... I'm sending it in on the next submission.
I figure they'll 91 it and leave my others to grade.
<< <i>What's sad is there are people dumb enough to bid on that crap. >>
Yeah...........heck, somebody even bid on this PCI coin and then even got it upgraded!
The name is LEE!
I cant believe PCGS let that crap through. What shocks me more are people who believe its NT.
<< <i>That coin is horrid looking! Anyone remember Mimi from 'The Drew Carey Show'? >>
Yeah right....Now how are we supposed to get a night's rest and get up for work in the morning.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
Sure is different.
<< <i>That coin is horrid looking! Anyone remember Mimi from 'The Drew Carey Show'?
I cant believe PCGS let that crap through. What shocks me more are people who believe its NT. >>
Yes I remember Mimi
<< <i>Nice toner LOL >>
.... carrying this over to what's going on today regarding toning makes NO SENSE at all!
Something pretty darned significant must have taken place to evoke this present day toning Phobia!
our esteemed host to enlighten us lowly collectors as to what is going on and WHAT facilitated it.
IMHO, if this continues as is, submissions will continue to wane and PCGS could quite well wind up mortally wounding
themselves, losing credibility & potential submitters' Confidence. I REALLY would not like to see that happen.
If someone from the Round Table would simply enlighten all of us, I'm sure we would all appreciate it
and understand. (JMHO-FWIW!) Sooner than later, people are going to grow weary of having their coins
deemed GENUINE ... especially in lieu of the expense to submit coins for grading.
By today's standards there are a LOT of overgraded, questionably toned coins out there in PCGS holders.
That's a problem that will not easily be swept away or poofed. It must be dealt with head-on.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>What's sad is there are people dumb enough to bid on that crap. >>
Yeah...........heck, somebody even bid on this PCI coin and then even got it upgraded!
Wow! I'm completely dumbfounded!
Seeing that ASE just knocked my confidence in graded coins from little to none. I don't understand how anyone working at PCGS would even consider grading that coin. I mean, come on...even PCI said questionable. I don't think even NNC or Numistrust would have graded that coin. Yet, when I send in 8 coins that are without a shadow of a doubt 100% natural, only 3 are graded? What the f@#* is going on???? I really wish that someone from PCGS would take a stand and give all of us frustrated collectors some sort of answers. I feel like the TPG's are starting to ruin this hobby with all the drastic inconsistencies and a grading scale that sometimes seems to change daily.
NGC has now decided to slab problem coins with a "details" grade to appease people's frustrations with all the bagged coins. I don't know about everyone else, but when more than 1/2 of a total submission of coins that are completely market acceptable (and unquestionably natural) comes back in a genuine or details slab I would say there is a serious problem with either the graders or the current standards by which the TPG's have adopted in this past year. If you randomly read all the posts in this forum two years ago, you might occasionally run across a post where someone ranted about how they did not agree with the grade one of their coins received. These days, it seems like in every other post there is a mention of how frustrating it is that yet another natural, market acceptable coin (or group of coins) was not graded for no reason that is apparent to anyone. I've also noticed that there are a whole lot of people that have stopped submitting toned coins (or coins period) because of what is going on lately. I have too. I would think that there has been a noticeable decrease in submissions, and there is certainly a huge public display of frustration all over these forums. What is it going to take to get some answers, or for some serious changes to take place with the way toned coins are no longer being graded?
Sorry to rant and rave, but I'm fed up. Ridiculous is now an understatement for the way toned coins are being graded.
I've had dialogue with the PTB in years past in which I expressed how I feel about this Company.
I recall my first PCGS coin and remember a time when their opinion was considered the end-all.
Something however happened to PCGS along the way and by no means is it my intent to disrespect or to dog them.
When I first began submitting coins here, everything I sent in for crossover crossed at the same grade, except for 1 coin
which I knew beforehand would not. This is Fact and beyond that I was quite successful at getting expensive Keys to
regrade higher. Not too shabby if I say so myself! I enjoy our hobby and the friendships made along the way & still do,
to this very moment ... but I HAVE to say - I almost saw this train wreck happening!
I really DO NOT have a stake in this NT/ AT matter, as evidenced by my past submissions and the very coins within my now
retired set. I love beautiful coins and as I understand from reading PCGS' own grading guidelines that proper stewardship
is Paramount and that if taken verbatem, Originality (close preservation that reflects a given coin's state compared to the
day it was minted) along with strength of strike, luster and eye appeal SHOULD determine a coin's "technical grade" but I soon
found that this is not necessarily the case. Enter - toned surfaces!
Having been a collector for longer than I care to admit - I have seen, handled, examined/ scrutinized countless tens of
thousands of coins in my time and as a general rule, read that toning is to silver (metal) as corrosion is to Iron, I became
somewhat bewildered when I first saw outrageously toned silver coins in top tpg slabs, certified as Superb BU. To me they
looked "un-real" because huge heaps of silver just do not generally tone as outrageously as some of what I had seen.
I do not go out of my way to DO anything to make toned coins. Just look at the first 2 decades of my retired Registry set.
Besides, I'm old school and was taught to resist the urge to clean or rub sometimes unsightly accumulations off coins' surfaces
AND I detest using chemicals. But, this isn't about me and I certainly am no coin doctor.
Given my understanding that a coin's grade revolved around state of preservation to as close to the way it was when minted, strength
of strike, total unbroken luster and eye appeal the whole outrageously toned/ high grade bit made no sense to me HOWEVER, as many here
have come to learn, particularly when having placed pristine White coins in albums - they DO tone due to the properties of the albums themselves.
One of the reasons I retired my set is because I found very PQ lustrous pieces that had not been dipped or otherwise tampered with, that MOST
CERTAINLY were as beautiful as the day they were minted yet their grades seemed to stop at a certain level if they lacked toning. Everyone is
Welcome to look at the core of my set and will be very hard pressed to see & figure out how & why such Original, well kept coins, side by side to
my own PCGS 67s, did not grade as they should have. It seemed that if a coin had no toning it could not advance to the highest levels. I felt this
to be wrong but kept my mouth shut but NOW, I wish I had them back as they most certainly would now be given the grades they deserved all along.
I never could understand how some coins that looked like they slept in cow patties for extended periods of time could be graded PCGS 67, especially
considering the aforementioned Standards (as close to the day they were minted with total unbroken, (hit-free) luster - luster to die for and great strikes
Market acceptability changed? Huh!? Most everyone appreciates a beautiful naturally toned coin BUT this is when The Doctors came
out looking to replicate that particular look. My instincts tell me that such toning has now been made known and as such there have undoubtedly been
many coins determined to have been artificially toned and as such, some huge, expensive buybacks undoubtedly took place and THIS IS WHAT has brought
this current state of Tone-Phobia on. I have no proof of this other than gut instinct and as such this should be looked at as strictly my opinion.
What troubles me is the thought of submitting much tamer toned coins that are guilty of having sat in Dansco being wrongfully deemed AT, when they are not.
This coupled with tight grading - I cannot force myself to take a chance at current expenses, to submit. I've wasted this year's membership cause I just don't feel
like playing this expensive Game only to end up with undergraded GENUINE coins, cause by mis-deeds and mistakes of the past.
I've no problem sending in coins that I know are Original and worth the expense but till the dust settles, if there is the least doubt regarding toning I won't even send
a 100% NT, album toned coin in.
I sure hope this all works out and this Witch hunt comes to a timely end.
Coin doctors have brought this on, no question about it. And like Ricko says, the only way of getting past it may be to end the current rage over toned coins. It will happen and I welcome it.
Lance.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>What's sad is there are people dumb enough to bid on that crap. >>
Yeah...........heck, somebody even bid on this PCI coin and then even got it upgraded!
Wow! I'm completely dumbfounded!
Seeing that ASE just knocked my confidence in graded coins from little to none. I don't understand how anyone working at PCGS would even consider grading that coin. I mean, come on...even PCI said questionable. I don't think even NNC or Numistrust would have graded that coin. Yet, when I send in 8 coins that are without a shadow of a doubt 100% natural, only 3 are graded? What the f@#* is going on???? I really wish that someone from PCGS would take a stand and give all of us frustrated collectors some sort of answers. I feel like the TPG's are starting to ruin this hobby with all the drastic inconsistencies and a grading scale that sometimes seems to change daily.
NGC has now decided to slab problem coins with a "details" grade to appease people's frustrations with all the bagged coins. I don't know about everyone else, but when more than 1/2 of a total submission of coins that are completely market acceptable (and unquestionably natural) comes back in a genuine or details slab I would say there is a serious problem with either the graders or the current standards by which the TPG's have adopted in this past year. If you randomly read all the posts in this forum two years ago, you might occasionally run across a post where someone ranted about how they did not agree with the grade one of their coins received. These days, it seems like in every other post there is a mention of how frustrating it is that yet another natural, market acceptable coin (or group of coins) was not graded for no reason that is apparent to anyone. I've also noticed that there are a whole lot of people that have stopped submitting toned coins (or coins period) because of what is going on lately. I have too. I would think that there has been a noticeable decrease in submissions, and there is certainly a huge public display of frustration all over these forums. What is it going to take to get some answers, or for some serious changes to take place with the way toned coins are no longer being graded?
Sorry to rant and rave, but I'm fed up. Ridiculous is now an understatement for the way toned coins are being graded. >>
Wow and they called the ones I submitted and posted on this board in the original holders questionable coloring...........guess I should have just airbrushed them and sent them in.
Hell, I don't need to exercise.....I get enough just pushing my luck.
<< <i>Boom, I doubt if the 'witch hunt' will come to an end in the manner you seek. It is a major thrust by the TPG's and large dealers (i.e. Legend) to rid the hobby of coin doctoring. The process has become so refined that when done properly, it is virtually undetectable. Because of this, the standards have become extremely tight on toners. I believe the only way the standards may relax is with the passing of the 'color rage' we are presently enduring. Until then, toners should be either kept by their admirers unslabbed, or accepted as 'genuine'. Cheers, RickO >>
When I started in this hobby 40 years ago, probably 95% of coins (at least at the retail shop level) held out as "toned", "monster toned", and "original patina" would have been destined for an immediate trip to the dipping bath. Only recently, now that a large financial reward awaits for holders and makers of certified toned coins, do the TPG's really care about the genesis of the respective coins' color.
Ricko is correct - we need to return to the era of stripping coins of their color and standing naked and proud before their future owners.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>What's sad is there are people dumb enough to bid on that crap. >>
That's the problem ! I never could understand why anybody would want to own this crap?
<< <i>
<< <i>What's sad is there are people dumb enough to bid on that crap. >>
That's the problem ! I never could understand why anybody would want to own this crap?
If you know what you're buying, (I don't mean this personally) what does it matter that someone else doesn't?
<< <i>Sad.
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/bt-666_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_ipgZ >>
What is sad is that two of the most prominent AT "artists" on this forum and on eBay have the gall to pontificate about this on page 1.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>
<< <i>Sad.
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/bt-666_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_ipgZ >>
What is sad is that two of the most prominent AT "artists" on this forum and on eBay have the gall to pontificate about this on page 1. >>
Now that's funny!
<< <i>I believe the only way the standards may relax is with the passing of the 'color rage' we are presently enduring. >>
This is the primary reason you will no longer see me going goo-goo ga-ga over some outrageously toned coin. Natural or Not, I;m just not going to buy into it nor perpetuate the concept that simply because the coin is toned, it must be nice!
Bull!
A nice coin is a well struck, relatively mark free coin and toning should play absolutely no part in the grading of a coin other than to detract from the grade as some toning is so "over the top" that flaws are not readily discernable.
I too have witnessed that most "toned" coins, especially the Washingtons, get undeserved high marks based solely upon the toning.
If you browse Teletrade (yeah I know its perceived as the "dealers dumping grounds" so spare me the reply in regard to that) you'll see that 99 out of 100 NGC MS67 Washington's are so overly toned thats it difficult to make out any detail. Even on something as simple as determining if its a Type B reverse or not.
Now, since the TPG's have evolving to the "Genuine" or "Details" slabs, its economically practical to simply bodybag the coin if there is any question at all regarding toning and laying ownership upon the submitter as to whether it should be submitted again. In other words, if they are not sure then, don't make a determination, just slab it as genuine!
But, you folks wanted this "Slab it if its authentic" scenario. Unfortunately, this is the by product.
As for the tightness with the current TPG's. Who knows? Its their business and I could almost guarantee that if they loosened up, it would be a significant loosening and folks would once again cry out "Where;s the consistency".
BTW, it is important to note that the 1998 posted above was grade at least 2 years ago before the TPG went to DefCon 1.
The name is LEE!
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/bt-666_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_ipgZ
What is sad is that two of the most prominent AT "artists" on this forum and on eBay have the gall to pontificate about this on page 1.>>
Do tell? Some of us dont know the whos who and the whats what?