New CoinFacts

DonWillis · July 27, 2009 9:23AM

After many months of work PCGS is very pleased to launch an all new CoinFacts. This effort was a labor of love spearheaded by Ron Guth with the participation of many experts both inside and outside the company. We believe that the new CoinFacts is the most comprehensive and powerful application in the industry. Wether you are a novice collector or an experienced numismatist CoinFacts has a great deal to offer.

Here is our annoucement -

The all new PCGS CoinFacts

stinkinlincoln · July 27, 2009 9:32AM

Good stuff.

But I have a question, if I pay the $95.40 a year for this, I get alot of the same info Id be buying with a membership here right?

CoinFacts on Stones MasterList if free, why is this not?

DonWillis · July 27, 2009 9:34AM

The only overlap between a CoinFacts subscription and a Collectors Club membership is the pop report.

BECOKA · July 27, 2009 9:35AM

Seems like this kind of thing should be part of the Collectors Club Platinum Membership that I already paid $150 for.

Edited, I guess I just did not see enough in the free tour to compell me to spend additional funds for it when so much is available on other free resources on the net.

Edited, the still not convinced page has links to three other coins which just take you back to the home page.

stinkinlincoln · July 27, 2009 9:36AM

Ahhh, ok. Good to know.

Thanks for the very quick response!

Goldbully · July 27, 2009 9:55AM

At first glance, is this the old CoinFacts on steroids?????

Looks like lots of lookups and mega details for each coin.....very interesting.

I see the old CoinFacts is history!!!!

Would like a free trial if that's possible.

commoncents05 · July 27, 2009 9:59AM

<< Would like a free trial if that's possible. >>

I think it would greatly increase their membership. At first glance, it sounds like a PCGS Membership (for the Pop Reports and Price Guide) and a free Heritage Auction Archive membership, both of which I have. If the new CoinFacts is "the most comprehensive and powerful application in the industry, I think people would overlook it's usefulness, and a free trial would help them see it. Not trying to bash, just offering an honest opinion.

-Paul

ThePennyLady · July 27, 2009 10:02AM

<< The only overlap between a CoinFacts subscription and a Collectors Club membership is the pop report. >>

Don, I was at the meeting at the last Las Vegas PCGS show where this program was discussed as being under construction and couldn't wait to see it finalized. So I took the "tour" and this truly is an amazing resource, that's for sure! I am a big supporter of having all coin information in one place such as this program. It is quite obvious that a lot of effort, research, and technical skills went into putting this site together. And the coin photos are fantastic! Congratulations on a wonderful resource!!

Regarding the overlap question above, in addition to the pop reports that come with membership, I did want to point out that we also already get pricing guides for free on your website, and auction prices realized for free from the auction houses. However, I do have a question about the pop report - are there any efforts being made to calculate and publish a more accurate/actual coin population census, somehow taking into account, either by estimate or some other method of calculation, the amount of coins broken out of holders and resubmitted (often multiple times) which, as we all know, tend to skew the actual pop reports? And if so, what are your methods for attaining a more accurate population?

Steve27 · July 27, 2009 10:04AM

First they stop using the Q&A Forum, and now the stop using the Announcements & News Forum.

BECOKA · July 27, 2009 10:05AM

<< 

However, I do have a question about the pop report - are there any efforts being made to calculate and publish a more accurate/actual coin population census, somehow taking into account, either by estimate or some other method of calculation, the amount of coins broken out of holders and resubmitted (often multiple times) which, as we all know, tend to skew the actual pop reports? And if so, what are your methods for attaining a more accurate population? >>

This would be cool info, unfortunately until PCGS finds a way to scan every coin into the system when photography is not paid for I would imagine it too difficult a task to estimate number of re-submissions. If you take a handful of the rarest coins you could do this knowing approximate survival rate vs. number graded anything more seems impossible.

ThePennyLady · July 27, 2009 10:10AM

<< 

<< 

However, I do have a question about the pop report - are there any efforts being made to calculate and publish a more accurate/actual coin population census, somehow taking into account, either by estimate or some other method of calculation, the amount of coins broken out of holders and resubmitted (often multiple times) which, as we all know, tend to skew the actual pop reports? And if so, what are your methods for attaining a more accurate population? >>

This would be cool info, unfortunately until PCGS finds a way to scan every coin into the system when photography is not paid for I would imagine it too difficult a task to estimate number of re-submissions. If you take a handful of the rarest coins you could do this knowing approximate survival rate vs. number graded anything more seems impossible. >>

Ben, I realize how difficult getting accurate pop info is when so many coins are broken out, but that's exactly why I was asking Don if PCGS is working on this - and perhaps they are. They have some very talented minds and a wealth of resources that I'm sure if anyone can figure out who to get more accurate population numbers, PCGS can.

RWB · July 27, 2009 10:13AM

Nice improvement and nice to link more information together. Pretty, but are the descriptions any more accurate than the previous edition?

Here are examples of errors from the sample page on the new site. [Comments are in brackets, italic]:

1893-S Dollar
“The 1893-S Silver Dollar is the rarest,. regular-issue date in the Morgan Dollar series, and the only date with a mintage below 100,000 coins.” [“..below 100,000 coins” is incorrect. Multiple documents show that 100,000 were made. A small number (24) were destroyed as part of the Annual Assay and Special Assay.].

“Beware of altered 1893-P Dollars with mintmarks added to the reverse. A genuine 1893-S mintmark has slightly filled top and bottom loops and will generally have no discoloration around the mintmark (evidence of glue or solder).” [ There are two reverse dies for 1893, not one. John Dannreuther discovered this a decade ago.]

While neither mistake is a “show stopper” the errors would likely confuse or mislead many collectors.

Lincoln Cent (please, not “penny”)
“Interest in the coins reached a frenzied peak when collectors lined up for the coins, believing that the coins with initials would become instant rarities. This did not happen with coins from the Philadelphia Mint, but it did with those from San Francisco.[ This happened in New York, Philadelphia, Washington and other eastern cities when the coins were first released August 2, and again when there were rumors that the coins were being recalled. However, there is no record of extensive lines or public frenzy in San Francisco or other west coast distribution points.]

Not a major mistake, but, as before, could mislead a collector doing research for a club presentation or article. (Does the Standing Liberty quarter entry still mention the nonsense about the “bare breast controversy?”)

If “CoinFacts” is to be factual and useful to collectors then it has to be more than yesterday’s warmed-over codfish.

silverdollarfitz · July 27, 2009 10:13AM

will it only list the die varieties or VAMs that PCGS recognizes? or will it show other varieties?

ColonialCoinUnion · July 27, 2009 10:14AM

I just took the tour and then signed up.

DonWillis · July 27, 2009 10:38AM

Thank you to those that have already signed up!

To the guys wanting a free trial - you can try this for $9.95 - cancel after one month if you don't think it's worth it.

As for mistakes, please bring these to our attention, as well as anything you would like to add. We have a lot of people dedicated to this project and would appreciate hearing from all the experts out there - honestly.

While you may be able to locate some of the information contained in CoinFacts by going to numerous websites and books, you won't find any other application which organizes all this information and puts it at your fingertips with just a couple clicks. For example - auction prices realized was brought up - Coinfacts contains all auction prices realized for all services, including raw, from every major auction since 1995. It can be sorted any way you want to see it with a click. You would have a very difficult time finding all that information, and if you could it would be a lot of work to organize it in a way that you could use it.

We're very high on this new application!

ThePennyLady · July 27, 2009 10:45AM

Don, is PCGS looking into finding a way to create more accurate pop reports?

DonWillis · July 27, 2009 10:50AM

Charmy - yes we are. No details available at this time.

BaronVonBaugh · July 27, 2009 11:06AM

You should consider a discount for club members.

19Lyds · July 27, 2009 11:21AM

$9.95 a month is pretty stiff in my opinion especially since I'm already paying $199.00 per year for a collectors club membership!

I don't understand why the CC members, who have member numbers by the way, are not given a certain discount for some of this "already paid for" information.

DieClash · July 27, 2009 11:24AM

Too bad!

Another decent free resource of iinformation goes "pay for"! I suppose CLCT sees it as a way to add value to their lagging stock. IMHO this company should NOT be public.

The old coin facts was lacking in a number of areas, but it was also unique in many others. Alas, all of the info. (except maybe PCGS data) can be found elsewhere on the internet for free.

I know I don't need to pay to post here, but I am frustrated that corporate interests have to monopolize information in the web and charge a fee for it's access. Coinfacts was perhaps one of the best mediums for attracting new CLCT customers and investors. Now that it is pay per view, good luck.

Another corporate maneuver to inject vigor into a failing stock, will only fail in the long run, if not the short-run. I've got to say the folks at CLCT are desperate and this latest maneuver will only accelerate the decline of CLCT. Good Luck Willis, et. al. is all I have to say!

Quarternut · July 27, 2009 11:24AM

If “CoinFacts” is to be factual and useful to collectors then it has to be more than yesterday’s warmed-over codfish.

, WELL SAID!

There are wayyyyyy too many things that are still being repeated as facts that are not...

QN

19Lyds · July 27, 2009 11:36AM

Whomever signed up, please get on there and see if the different 1972 Eisenhower Dollar Types are represented. They are not on the current Coinfacts and I'm curious to know whether or not the information presented has any "meat" for us modern collectors.

I simply will not join if the my favorite series continues to be ignored.

Goldbully · July 27, 2009 11:50AM

<< Too bad!

Another decent free resource of iinformation goes "pay for"! I suppose CLCT sees it as a way to add value to their lagging stock. IMHO this company should NOT be public.

The old coin facts was lacking in a number of areas, but it was also unique in many others. Alas, all of the info. (except maybe PCGS data) can be found elsewhere on the internet for free.

I know I don't need to pay to post here, but I am frustrated that corporate interests have to monopolize information in the web and charge a fee for it's access. Coinfacts was perhaps one of the best mediums for attracting new CLCT customers and investors. Now that it is pay per view, good luck.

Another corporate maneuver to inject vigor into a failing stock, will only fail in the long run, if not the short-run. I've got to say the folks at CLCT are desperate and this latest maneuver will only accelerate the decline of CLCT. Good Luck Willis, et. al. is all I have to say! >>

DieClash, you are being a bit harsh here. If you are going to criticize, at least have some respect for Don Willis.

To say that CLCT is desperate is over the top.

We are in a recession....all the cards have to be on the table.

I sell woodworking machinery....I am cutting my selling price to 25 year margin lows.

This new CoinFacts project is in its infancy, and I believe is a positive "next step" in the cataloging of our precious coins.

As a Platinum CU member, I believe a one month free trial would be in order....you know, the beta testing philosophy.

Play nice!!!

Bear · July 27, 2009 11:58AM

This is an interesting new PCGS under taking

I wish it well. Keep working on the concept to

make it perfect.

MORGANHUNTER2 · July 27, 2009 12:07PM

At a time when your stock is in the tank, you expect folks to pay for information that is part of general knowledge?

Why on earth would the shareholders say go ahead and charge them a fee per month for information they can find thru the net if they want it?

If you want folks to join and participate, in the CC, then make it reasonable with the fee- this by far to me- is the most idiotic idea I have seen in over 20 years of doing business (small but still) with PCGS.

Make it favorable to a potential collector to WANT to join, instead of nickle and dimeing them out of good money.

BECOKA · July 27, 2009 12:08PM

.......

Obiwancanoli · July 27, 2009 12:21PM

Not happy in this camp.

I don't spend enough on coins to justify the expense of a monthly admission fee. While the resources may be laudable, a fee is now being charged for information previously accessible to all. That site, I found helpful, but far from commanding the bulk of my attention. Now, it will get none.

I'm sure PCGS will find sufficient revenue to continue with the site, for there will always be those who feel, in their world, it can easily be justified. But now that the stage is set, this new revenue generator - charging people to look - will find it's way to higher still fees under the guise of New & Improved. I commend PCGS for organizing the data, but for me, it's just another way to get into my pocket. And I'd rather use THAT to buy coins.

Thanks, PCGS, but, no thanks.

MrOrganic · July 27, 2009 12:25PM

I still dont get why you need a membership/fees to submit coins to be slabbed.

Sunshine Rare Coins · July 27, 2009 12:30PM

I think that this will be very good for dealers, but 95 dollars a year is too much money for collectors.

Also, i dont like that we now have to pay for the auction records that used to be free on the pcgs site

Goldbully · July 27, 2009 12:33PM

<< I still dont get why you need a membership/fees to submit coins to be slabbed. >>

They are free with a Platinum membership!!!!

stinkinlincoln · July 27, 2009 12:42PM

<<Note that we no longer have the basic coinfacts as that site is now defunct so it's all or nothing now. >>

WOW! Thats beat on so many levels.

Ive used that site so many times I cant remember.

Like others have said, thanks, but no thanks.

Ill find the info I need in all the books Ive bought and all the stuff from the free, original coinfacts that Ive copied and pasted.

abitofthisabitofthat · July 27, 2009 12:46PM

Certainly useful, but I feel that the fee will discourge broad usage.

I think a better model would have been two tiered. First tier - free - similar to old version with info useful to the "average" or casual collector who will not pay to subscribe. A second tier - fee based - with premium information, including pricing and auction archives that would be of value to the more serious collector. That would likely result in higher sales volume anyway - if collectors use and value the basic they will be more likely to pay to upgrade later.

Also, no discount to CC members is a slap in the face. Obviously, and rightly, PCGS feels the price guide is a value added service that collectors should pay for. But to pay for it twice? That is insulting. Creating ill will with your existing customers is rarely good business.

WoodenJefferson · July 27, 2009 12:48PM

I use this site daily and any upgrade is sure a welcome sight.

Collectors Universe was very wise to let Mr. Guth run with this site and that team has done an excellent job!

19Lyds · July 27, 2009 12:50PM

<< Certainly useful, but I feel that the fee will discourge broad usage.

I think a better model would have been two tiered. First tier - free - similar to old version with info useful to the "average" or casual collector who will not pay to subscribe. A second tier - fee based - with premium information, including pricing and auction archives that would be of value to the more serious collector. That would likely result in higher sales volume anyway - if collectors use and value the basic they will be more likely to pay to upgrade later.

Also, no discount to CC members is a slap in the face. Obviously, and rightly, PCGS feels the price guide is a value added service that collectors should pay for. But to pay for it twice? That is insulting. Creating ill will with your existing customers is rarely good business. >>

But..........but......but..........That would have reqired more "programming hours" to accomplish!

GRANDAM · July 27, 2009 1:43PM

Question,,, will the PCGS POP Report and Price Guides continue to be available to Collectors Club Members as they currently are or will this become exclusive to Coin Facts?

GrandAm

ElmerFusterpuck · July 27, 2009 1:56PM

This looks just like what the newspapers are doing - raising their prices and putting up collection tollbooths while decreasing the content. I'm sorry, but it does sound a bit like 'desperation' to me, especially since the old site is gone. Some businesses are trying to make the same amount of money (or more) that they were in the 'good old days' by raising fees and reducing product, and all without innovation.

Let's face reality - those days are gone, and I don't believe they are coming back. Any business that continues to embrace the fee this, fee that mantra is doomed to become extinct, IMHO.

coindeuce · July 27, 2009 1:57PM

I can only envision the price of PCGS graded coins being driven down in the market as this new financial impediment to sharing market information creates a lack of accurate market history.

dizzyfoxx · July 27, 2009 2:02PM

Thanks Don! Outstanding site and info. Just signed up and went right to the 1870-CC Seated Half for starters and very much enjoyed all of the content and info on the site. Keep up the good work!

mrearlygold · July 27, 2009 2:25PM

<< 

<< Whomever signed up, please get on there and see if the different 1972 Eisenhower Dollar Types are represented. They are not on the current Coinfacts and I'm curious to know whether or not the information presented has any "meat" for us modern collectors.

I simply will not join if the my favorite series continues to be ignored. >>

Note that we no longer have the basic coinfacts as that site is now defunct so it's all or nothing now. >>

Is the old coinfacts going to redirect to the new coinfacts or is this url going to start brand new on the internet?

BECOKA · July 27, 2009 2:27PM

Yes there is a popup that warns the original coinfacts will no longer be updated and there is a link to the new site.

My bad I originally thought the old coinfacts was removed but it is still there if you close the pop-up

19Lyds · July 27, 2009 2:37PM

This is what I just got:

No re-direct here, even with a refresh! Besides, the url names are different.

http://www.coinfacts.com/

vs

http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/

19Lyds · July 27, 2009 2:41PM

<< Question,,, will the PCGS POP Report and Price Guides continue to be available to Collectors Club Members as they currently are or will this become exclusive to Coin Facts?

GrandAm

>>

I don't think these will change Gary unless PCGS incorporates PCGSCoinFacts in the the CC membership. Then I suppose it could.

As it sits right now, PCGSCoinFacts.com is just an appendium of current information under a new umbrella. In other words, the new website makes information available without having to bounce from one webpage to another.

silverdollarfitz · July 27, 2009 5:26PM

<< Whomever signed up, please get on there and see if the different 1972 Eisenhower Dollar Types are represented. They are not on the current Coinfacts and I'm curious to know whether or not the information presented has any "meat" for us modern collectors.

I simply will not join if the my favorite series continues to be ignored. >>

I too am interested in the die varieties of ike dollars, and morgan dollars. Are these going to be listed Mr. Willis?

Halfhunter06 · July 27, 2009 10:53PM

sounds like a good service

DeepCoin · July 28, 2009 1:09AM

I like the service, but I think the pricing model needs to be rationalized for all PCGS products. IMHO there should be a product for sale that includes the Collectors Club and the CoinFacts.

The pricing for CoinFacts is 120/yr and has two key components, the population report and the auction history. Yes, there are other items, but these are the key elements making the site valuable to most collectors.

How about a combined product priced annually that provides membership in the CC plus the Coin Facts for $149.95? No free submissions, but that ability to submit coins for grading. I think this might be a popular choice.

One of the problems you may find with the current model is that you will lose members before a year is over and at $10 per month you will not get anywhere near the revenue you want. Just a suggestion.

I DO like the site and the information provided, just the overlap of services is an issue.

ldhair · July 28, 2009 2:36AM

Just joined. Great site.

SmallEagle · July 28, 2009 3:23AM

I joined thinking they might have three things I would find very useful.

1. Historical PCGS "values" for a given coin and condition. They do not offer this as far as I can tell.
2. Historical PCGS "populations" for a given coin and coindition. They do not offer this as far as I can tell.
3. Accurate auction records for a cross-section of the largest auction firms. I quickly looked at their auction records for 1793 half cents. Their records were very incomplete, listing one coin selling for more than $100K when a quick glance at Heritage and Stacks showed at least five.

The site has potential and I'm hopeful it will eventually improve.

ldhair · July 28, 2009 3:49AM

<< I joined thinking they might have three things I would find very useful.

1. Historical PCGS "values" for a given coin and condition. They do not offer this as far as I can tell.
2. Historical PCGS "populations" for a given coin and coindition. They do not offer this as far as I can tell.
3. Accurate auction records for a cross-section of the largest auction firms. I quickly looked at their auction records for 1793 half cents. Their records were very incomplete, listing one coin selling for more than $100K when a quick glance at Heritage and Stacks showed at least five.

The site has potential and I'm hopeful it will eventually improve. >>

It's all there. You just have to play with it a bit to figure it out.
The 1793 half cent shows about three pages of auction listings.

SmallEagle · July 28, 2009 4:19AM

<< 

<< I joined thinking they might have three things I would find very useful.

1. Historical PCGS "values" for a given coin and condition. They do not offer this as far as I can tell.
2. Historical PCGS "populations" for a given coin and coindition. They do not offer this as far as I can tell.
3. Accurate auction records for a cross-section of the largest auction firms. I quickly looked at their auction records for 1793 half cents. Their records were very incomplete, listing one coin selling for more than $100K when a quick glance at Heritage and Stacks showed at least five.

The site has potential and I'm hopeful it will eventually improve. >>

It's all there. You just have to play with it a bit to figure it out.
The 1793 half cent shows about three pages of auction listings. >>

I see all three pages. But only one listing selling for more than $100K. Unless I'm doing something wrong.

Unknown · July 28, 2009 5:55AM

This content has been removed.

Bear · July 28, 2009 6:06AM

There are five possibilities for the new service

1. Pay more for less

2. Pay more for more.

3. Pay the same for more

4. Pay less for less

5. Pay less for more

Why not replace the membership classifications

with the new service and include the free grading.

I do not believe that PCGS will be able to eat it's cake

at the same time keeping the cake intact. If a poll were

taken, I believe that it would show interest in the new service

but overwhelming rejection of the double billing for membership

as well as the new service.

New CoinFacts

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