eBay seller webbulator - unopened proof sets

MMR · July 18, 2009 2:23AM

I know this topic has been addressed before, but I am looking for more feedback on this.

An eBay seller that I follow by the name of webbulator consistently has a large supply of unopened proof sets from the 50s and 60s. My question is how the heck does he get these in such quantity? I also wonder if they are really unsearched and original.

I am not suggesting in any way he is doing this but, I have heard it is possible to buy the brown proof set envelopes and then to make your own sealed sets. I have also heard stories of sellers steaming open proof sets, searching them and then resealing them.

I would love to get a batch of real sealed sets and search for cameos, but something in my gut tells me that these may not be for real.

Thoughts?

ricko · July 18, 2009 2:28AM

Your gut is likely correct - I thought Russ once posted that sets from that period did NOT come sealed.... not sure about this, but others will know for sure. Other than that, I would say, they are likely searched already. Cheers, RickO

stinkinlincoln · July 18, 2009 2:28AM

Theres afew guys I know on ebay that have legit unopened sets now and then.

Most of these on ebay are opened. Theres ways to seal them back and not really spot it. I buy from a trusted source only.

If not, its a crap shoot.

lcoopie · July 18, 2009 2:32AM

if you want to shoot craps,
go to Vegas
the odds are likely better

grabba · July 18, 2009 2:34AM

From what I have been told and understand, once he acquires these sets in large intact quantities, he opens a few of the envelopes to take a sampling of the sets and if there is nothing of interest (cameos, etc) he moves on to the next batch.

That is my understanding.

shottaker · July 18, 2009 2:42AM

<< From what I have been told and understand, once he acquires these sets in large intact quantities, he opens a few of the envelopes to take a sampling of the sets and if there is nothing of interest (cameos, etc) he moves on to the next batch.

That is my understanding. >>

I'm pretty sure thats Val Web. He's a pretty straight shooter in my experience. He used to post for unopened sets all the time on cce. Not sure if he does anymore but probably still the case. I do know I purchased 2 bulk 100 set unopened boxes of 1964 proof sets over the counter in one deal a long time ago. One had the sets sealed and the other were not. Maybe storage moisture sealed the one box. I'm not sure. I wouldnt put it past the mint to have sealed some sets and not others depending upon the worker or even whim. They had no idea it might make a difference in years to come so it may have been a do it if you have time type of thing.

We always have to remember that the mint doesn't always do one thing the same way all the time.

19Lyds · July 18, 2009 2:49AM

<< Your gut is likely correct - I thought Russ once posted that sets from that period did NOT come sealed.... not sure about this, but others will know for sure. Other than that, I would say, they are likely searched already. Cheers, RickO >>

My understanding is that all the proof sets were sealed Ricko however the oddity would have been the occasional "unsealed" set where the glue just didn;t quite stick and through the years the adhesive just gave up.

Unsealed sets were typically the US Mint Sets with the exception of the 1965 SMS which came both sealed and unsealed. To add a little confusion, I recently purchased two sealed US Mint shipping envelopes with a 5 packs of 1970 Mint Sets from a forum member that were both sealed and unsealed!

From an experience standpoint, if a sampling of sealed mint sets do not contain any Cameo coins then there's a reall good chance that none were in the shipment but as with anything in life, you'll never really know until you open each one of them up.

RichieURich · July 18, 2009 3:21AM

Go about 3/4 down the page of this link: Unopened proof sets

touche · July 18, 2009 3:33AM

<< Go about 3/4 down the page of this link: Unopened proof sets >>

What's shill bidding got to do with this?

MMR · July 18, 2009 3:37AM

<< 

<< Go about 3/4 down the page of this link: Unopened proof sets >>

What's shill bidding got to do with this? >>

I just found this on a friend's web site:

"Proof sets in sealed envelopes: From 1955 (some sets) through 1964, proof sets were sold in manila envelopes. Occasionally, some seller wants a premium price for proof sets in sealed envelopes. What's wrong with that? There could be some rare cameo proof coins in there or maybe some varieties. The problem is that replica envelopes are available online for less than $1 each. Most proof sets in "sealed envelopes" have been opened, inspected, and resealed. During the 1970's and 1980's, I was buying proof sets from the 1955 - 1964 era, and I never saw a proof set in a sealed envelope. Now they're all over the place. My recommendation is that you believe it is mint-sealed ONLY if you really trust the seller and/or know the history of the proof set from the day it left the mint over 40 years ago. At Rich Uhrich Rare U. S. Coins Inc., we don't represent any proof sets as being in sealed envelopes."

DHeath · July 18, 2009 3:46AM

I wish I had a copy of Val's book. I bought Rick's.

BAJJERFAN · July 18, 2009 4:02AM

Thats sorta like seeing original bank rolls of Morgans and the guy has pics of them all spread out. Yuck. How would anyone know what the grade distribution for the roll mite be unless they already looked thru em?

19Lyds · July 18, 2009 5:47AM

<< Go about 3/4 down the page of this link: Unopened proof sets >>

Well you learn something new everyday!

WoodenJefferson · July 18, 2009 6:14AM

Another way to get possibly unsearched proof sets is to look for lots that were shipped from the mint in boxes. A close examination of the sealing tape will indicate if the box was opened or not. The mint would ship in boxes when the customer requested 5 or more sets.

droopyd · July 18, 2009 8:48AM

We actually have a few unopened proof sets from the 50s -- my Dad would always order 5 each year, open 1 or 2 to check them out, then put them all in a large box in his closet.

Even then, I know he wasn't looking for cameos or anything that might now be a "top pop." These concepts didn't really exist back then.

So while there are likely a number of proof sets that have not yet been culled through, it is somewhat suspicious that any one person or dealer would have an inexaustible supply of them.

pennyannie · July 18, 2009 1:06PM

My mother in law has bought 10 proof sets every year since 1952 ( it is a shame she did not start in 1950) thru now. They were bought under 2 different accounts. Most of them are still in the sealed box they were shipped in. I did open a box of 1963"s a few months back. The envelopes were sealed. The 3 i looked at had nicely toned colorful neon pink Lincolns.

Anything is possible and not everyone is out to rip you, but as always buyer beware. I would not pay much of a premi.

keets · July 18, 2009 1:41PM

I wish I had a copy of Val's book. I bought Rick's.

i have Val's book, is there something specific you wanted to reference from it?? also, if you need a copy just PM and i'll pick up the next one i see.

Meltdown · July 18, 2009 1:46PM

I have two unopened 1958 proof sets. They are sealed.
I purchased them the same day they came into the shop from the original owner.
Chances are slim that there are dynamite cameos in there but I like being able to believe they are truly unsearched.

Cameonut · July 18, 2009 9:34PM

I can relate my experience in buying unopened proof sets (from webbulator and others).

I have rarely found a nice cameo in any of the sets I purchased. Never found a deep cameo. Most of the cameos were not worth slabbing and reselling. Now this could be due to the fact that great cameos are pretty rare OR it could be due to the sets being searched and sealed. I will never know and it doesn't bother me.

That being said, I was able to find multiple 1961 Proof doubled die reverse Franklins in a run of sets. A major score.

What that tells me it may be far more probable to find nice varieties than deep cameos.

MMR · July 19, 2009 9:35PM

<< Go about 3/4 down the page of this link: Unopened proof sets >>

Interestingly enough, a simple Google search yielded this: Proof / Mint Set Packaging

"(50) 1955 U.S. Proof Set Envelopes with no coins. Spruce up your stock of U.S. Proof Sets with these brand new envelopes!!
You can earn 30 Reward Points on this product!
Price: $29.99"

SPRUCE UP YOUR STOCK???

I guess I will NOT be buying any sealed proof sets...

eBay seller webbulator - unopened proof sets

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