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No Wax Packs Not Graded on E-Bay!!!!!
thedutymon
Posts: 4,323 ✭
Morning,
Just had these removed from E-bay.
eBay sent this message to Neil Duty (thedutymon).
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MC019 eBay Listing Removed: Trademark Violation - Unauthorized Item (302369148)
Dear thedutymon(cami@sopris.net),
You recently listed the following listing:
200346550622 - 1979 Topps Black Hole Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopened
200346551251 - 1979 Topps Black Hole Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopened
200346551482 - 1987 Harry & the Hendersons Wax Pack Lot 2 Unopened
200346552055 - 1988 Topps Dinosaur Attack Card Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopen
200347266355 - 1981 Topps Cute'N Cuddly Animal Poster Wax Pack Unopen
350206877697 - 1980 Topps Here's Bo Card Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopen
350206877958 - 1983 Jaws 3-D Card Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopened
350206878417 - 1970 Donruss Skateboard Sticker Wax Pack Lot 2 Unopen
350206879298 - 1978 Topps Mork & Mindy Card Wax Pack Lot 2 Unopened
350206879633 - 1987 Topps 21 Jump Street Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopened
The listing was removed because it violated eBay policy.
POLICY CHANGE: Due to recent fraud concerns, unopened/ungraded wax packs will no longer allowed on eBay
eBay doesn't allow sellers to list items using someone else's trademark -- the unique name, word, phrase, logo, or symbol that identifies a product or service -- unless the item being sold was made or authorized by the trademark's owner.
So while we hate to cancel listings -- it's disappointing for everyone --- if an item appears to infringe a trademark, we'll remove it.
Before we decide to remove a listing, besides reviewing the listing itself, we may also look at:
-- Buyer feedback and overall account standing
-- Whether you have any unresolved disputes
-- Your selling history and current selling activity
-- Whether you have previous feedback questioning the authenticity of items
Here's more information about our policy:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/replica-counterfeit.html
And you can learn more about trademarks here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/trademark.html
To take the intellectual property tutorial, please visit:
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Please be aware that any additional violations of this policy may result in the suspension of your account. eBay understands that you may be concerned about this situation.
For more information on why eBay may remove a listing, please visit:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/questions/listing-ended.html
Please be assured that your listings have not been targeted in any way. Although there may be similar items currently listed on eBay, we review all listings that are reported to us by eBay members or Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program participants. We rely on reports from our members to help maintain the safety and security of our Community. We encourage you to report any items by using the REPORT THIS ITEM button on the listing so we can quickly remove any other items that should be removed.
Your listing(s) may be eligible for relisting through My eBay. If your listing is eligible, you will see the listing in your Unsold Items page within My eBay. Listings that are not eligible for relisting will not be visible in the Unsold Items page.
To relist your item, sign in to eBay, go to My eBay to your Unsold items, and select the item that was canceled -- it's highlighted with a yellow banner. Before relisting, please make any changes necessary to ensure that your revised listing is in compliance with the law and eBay policies. You might want to check your other listings for similar violations as well.
Thank you for your understanding.
Sincerely,
eBay Trust & Safety team
H5265
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Wow talk about the Pendulium swinging too far the other way. Does this really apply to Hundreds of Thousands of Listings, did they all go poof at the same time, about 1/2 an hour ago???
Neil
Just had these removed from E-bay.
eBay sent this message to Neil Duty (thedutymon).
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more.
MC019 eBay Listing Removed: Trademark Violation - Unauthorized Item (302369148)
Dear thedutymon(cami@sopris.net),
You recently listed the following listing:
200346550622 - 1979 Topps Black Hole Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopened
200346551251 - 1979 Topps Black Hole Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopened
200346551482 - 1987 Harry & the Hendersons Wax Pack Lot 2 Unopened
200346552055 - 1988 Topps Dinosaur Attack Card Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopen
200347266355 - 1981 Topps Cute'N Cuddly Animal Poster Wax Pack Unopen
350206877697 - 1980 Topps Here's Bo Card Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopen
350206877958 - 1983 Jaws 3-D Card Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopened
350206878417 - 1970 Donruss Skateboard Sticker Wax Pack Lot 2 Unopen
350206879298 - 1978 Topps Mork & Mindy Card Wax Pack Lot 2 Unopened
350206879633 - 1987 Topps 21 Jump Street Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopened
The listing was removed because it violated eBay policy.
POLICY CHANGE: Due to recent fraud concerns, unopened/ungraded wax packs will no longer allowed on eBay
eBay doesn't allow sellers to list items using someone else's trademark -- the unique name, word, phrase, logo, or symbol that identifies a product or service -- unless the item being sold was made or authorized by the trademark's owner.
So while we hate to cancel listings -- it's disappointing for everyone --- if an item appears to infringe a trademark, we'll remove it.
Before we decide to remove a listing, besides reviewing the listing itself, we may also look at:
-- Buyer feedback and overall account standing
-- Whether you have any unresolved disputes
-- Your selling history and current selling activity
-- Whether you have previous feedback questioning the authenticity of items
Here's more information about our policy:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/replica-counterfeit.html
And you can learn more about trademarks here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/trademark.html
To take the intellectual property tutorial, please visit:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/tutorial/verotutorial/intro.html
Please be aware that any additional violations of this policy may result in the suspension of your account. eBay understands that you may be concerned about this situation.
For more information on why eBay may remove a listing, please visit:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/questions/listing-ended.html
Please be assured that your listings have not been targeted in any way. Although there may be similar items currently listed on eBay, we review all listings that are reported to us by eBay members or Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program participants. We rely on reports from our members to help maintain the safety and security of our Community. We encourage you to report any items by using the REPORT THIS ITEM button on the listing so we can quickly remove any other items that should be removed.
Your listing(s) may be eligible for relisting through My eBay. If your listing is eligible, you will see the listing in your Unsold Items page within My eBay. Listings that are not eligible for relisting will not be visible in the Unsold Items page.
To relist your item, sign in to eBay, go to My eBay to your Unsold items, and select the item that was canceled -- it's highlighted with a yellow banner. Before relisting, please make any changes necessary to ensure that your revised listing is in compliance with the law and eBay policies. You might want to check your other listings for similar violations as well.
Thank you for your understanding.
Sincerely,
eBay Trust & Safety team
H5265
Learn how you can protect yourself from spoof (fake) emails at:
http://pages.ebay.com/education/spooftutorial
This administrative email was sent to cami@sopris.net from eBay. Your account is registered on www.ebay.com. As outlined in our User Agreement, eBay will periodically send you information about site changes and enhancements. If you would like to receive this email in text format, change your notification preferences.
See our Privacy Policy and User Agreement if you have questions about eBay's communication policies.
Privacy Policy: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/privacy-policy.html
User Agreement: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html
Copyright © 2007-2008 eBay, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners.
eBay and the eBay logo are registered trademarks or trademarks of eBay, Inc.
eBay is located at 2145 Hamilton Avenue, San Jose, CA 95125.
Wow talk about the Pendulium swinging too far the other way. Does this really apply to Hundreds of Thousands of Listings, did they all go poof at the same time, about 1/2 an hour ago???
Neil
Actually Collect Non Sport, but am just so full of myself I post all over the place !!!!!!!
0
Comments
I guess that means I'll have to unload the rest of my Unopened Non Sports Crap on you!!!
Neil
Why am I always a day late, just this morning I put bids in on over 20 different Wax Pack boxes all of it stuff not worth grading, just cheap stuff I keep for several of my regular customers and occasionally a new one. Just store stock which if I win I can't list now.
Neil
sell unopened unslabbed packs.
Steve
<< <i>I have a bad feeling though that some existing sham card graders or some new unscrupulous pack/box graders are about to set up shop. What's to stop these resealers from dropping packs into a clam shell and printing off a semi-professional looking flip with a "grade"? >>
There are cards that are not allowed to be listed ungraded. These cards must be graded by PSA, Beckett, SGC or GAI. Not just any old grading company.
I would assume this would be the case with the packs as well.
<< <i>
<< <i>I have a bad feeling though that some existing sham card graders or some new unscrupulous pack/box graders are about to set up shop. What's to stop these resealers from dropping packs into a clam shell and printing off a semi-professional looking flip with a "grade"? >>
There are cards that are not allowed to be listed ungraded. These cards must be graded by PSA, Beckett, SGC or GAI. Not just any old grading company.
I would assume this would be the case with the packs as well. >>
It doesn't look like the new policy limits it to those companies though...at least not yet. And I don't think anyone here would trust anything graded new from GAI given their recent track record.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
Loophole Scam?
The real problem is that EBAY is the primary source of
supplies for the counterfeit pack-makers.
Until wrappers and boxes are banned, the fraud chain
remains intact.
wrappers
///////////
It has been nearly three-years since I and others were
barred from listing designer-fashion bags/boxes/cards/wrappers.
I guess only the 1970's and older packs will be listed (most 1986-Now is not worth the price fo grading). Well, it looks like packs might get harder to buy.
So, I take it this is the new problem:
Someone will just open up their own pack grading company. No matter what comes in, just grade it UN-OPENED. Most small grading companies grade EX cards NM. So why even look at the pack? Things are going to get interesting, on the un-opened market.
Dave
Edit: It does seem, however, from the language in the cancellation reason received by dutymon, that not ALL unopened auctions will be canceled. It seems like they are going to use their judgment on a case by case basis...we'll see..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I agree with packcollector completely. This would be a ridiculous policy and instead of hurting the scammers who will just find something else to screw people over on, it will hurt the honest collectors and sellers. An extreme overraction by ebay, IMO.. >>
//////////////////
Other than reviewing EACH listing and perhaps setting a pack-date cutoff,
there really is no other solution.
Also, the "honest collectors and sellers" can use other venues. We can be
sure that the CROOKS are already gearing up to do so.
<< <i>Until wrappers and boxes are banned, the fraud chain
remains intact. >>
I do not completely agree with this. Some wrappers are collectible, and neat to display. I had a 1933 Goudey Wrapper before. I will agree that the new wrappers should be banned.
But, where do you set the line for what can and can not be listed?
Dave
Loophole Scam?
Those packs were sold by Mark Murphy a few months back.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
sure that the CROOKS are already gearing up to do so.
Storm, you yourself have said many times that ebay despite all its flaws is the best way to reach the buying public when it comes to selling your wares. There is no other venue like ebay out there for the collector.
Any way you slice it, a lot of innocent people are being screwed here because of the actions of a few scammers..and that is unfortunate.
Edit: What is also lost in this discussion, too, is that there are a LOT of bogus GAI graded carp in the new holders which are just as bad as the reseal jobs.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Also, the "honest collectors and sellers" can use other venues. We can be
sure that the CROOKS are already gearing up to do so.
Storm, you yourself have said many times that ebay despite all its flaws is the best way to reach the buying public when it comes to selling your wares. There is no other venue like ebay out there for the collector.
Any way you slice it, a lot of innocent people are being screwed here because of the actions of a few scammers..and that is unfortunate. >>
//////////////////////////////////////////
Yup, EBAY has the biggest audience of collectors.
EBAY also features more stolen/counterfeit goods than
any venue on the planet.
Almost ANYTHING they do to tighten it up is a good thing.
They are NOT equipped to set up a reasonable prohibition
scheme in ANY category.
Maybe they can come up with a date cutoff. If not, a total
ban is about all that they can do.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Exactly, and though the honest sellers won't even consider such a scheme, you can be sure the CROOKS will to get around this "policy."
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
<< <i>I just listed a pretty major wax case an hour ago... well see if it applies there or not. >>
this case comes from his estate, one of only twelve
I thought there were 26 cases. ?
The real problem is that EBAY is the primary source of
supplies for the counterfeit pack-makers.
Until wrappers and boxes are banned, the fraud chain
remains intact."
I think you're off on this one Storm. Good first step to what? How about banning the sale of all raw cards that go into the packs too? As far as overall numbers go there has to be hundreds of times more complaints about raw cards on Ebay than pack sales. As a percentage of sales pack complaints might be higher but there are way more issues with raw card sales. The solution isn't to ban packs, or the stuff they're made up with. The solution is for Ebay to take action with the obvious habitual bad sellers and remove them. This can be done quite easily with Ebay going to some trusted experts when issues pop up.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
////////////////////////////////////////////
"Quite easily" might be a stretch, but it would be possible.
There are perceived/potential/likely legal issues that preclude
such a solution.
Counterfeit declaration is the responsibility/obligation/privilege
of a manufacturer/IP-rights holder. EBAY has legal problems
with inserting itself here; that is what VeRO is for.
Because TOPPS wrongly believes that counterfeit vintage-packs
are not their problem, the logical/lawful intervener is - as far as
I can tell - no where to be found.
The courts continue, in general, to find that EBAY is NOT an
enabler of counterfeiters largely BECAUSE the rights-holders
have a foolproof method of getting fakes off the site.
A VeRO takedown is absolute and only reversible by the rights
owner or by a court order.
TOPPS could enforce VeRO issues and the prohibition on genuine
packs by EBAY would be unnecessary. That would cost TOPPS
the price of a dedicated worker, and the money return would
not be immediately tangible.
.............
I suspect, but am not certain, that today's action was largely
spawned by the most recent efforts of folks on this board.
EBAY may have gotten tired of dealing with the recent LE
inquiries on the issue.
EBAY says they will have a refined and detailed explanation
of the new policy in a few days.
//////////////
Folks who suspect counterfeiting can, if they want to fight
it, continue to report their concerns to
www.ic3.gov
and, of course, counterfeiters can still be reported to EBAY.
<< <i>So- can i sell my roger rabbit and andy griffith wax boxes now or not? >>
If they give you a hard time on the Roger Rabbit boxes just tell them that you're not bad, you're just drawn that way.
<< <i>
<< <i>So- can i sell my roger rabbit and andy griffith wax boxes now or not? >>
If they give you a hard time on the Roger Rabbit boxes just tell them that you're not bad, you're just drawn that way. >>
<< <i>Maybe what eBay should do is something similar to select graded cards. I believe that they have a short list of 10 sportscards that you cannot sell ungraded, the T206 Cobbs being some of them. Maybe they should just draw up a list of the 10-20 most fraudulent packs and require those to be authenticated. They definitely need some sort of rules for this, it seems absurd to narc people trying to sell Mork & Mindy wax boxes or random lots of 1988-1992 Score packs. >>
//////////////////////////
Any compromise would likely have to be based on a year-model cutoff.
What would those years be:
Baseball
Basketball
Football
Hockey
Non-Sports
As for folks creating their own pack grading services or slabs, who cares? Look what happens with folks that create their own custom graded slabs. Their stuff sells for next to nothing because most folks buying mid-range to expensive cards on eBay know which grading companies are legit. They also know that the custom graded slabs are custom for a reason. The same thing will happen to anyone that creates custom graded packs. There will be next to no market for them. While GAI has graded some junk there also is a lot of legitimate GAI graded product as well. Much, much, much higher than 25% (which is the estimate for legit unopened on eBay) so it is a win in the end for consumers.
Robb
<< <i>That is actually a good thing unless the bulk of your sales are unopened material. >>
Does this mean that Uncle Fester is going on unemployment ?
How is he going to make it ?
What is he going to do with all those wrappers ?
Does this now give him time to finish his bar ?
Is it bong time for Gary ?
All good questions imho---- Lets discuss
because if this is true , I see this policy hurting alot of good sellers and the crooks will just find another means of scamming.
Seriously name any 5 packs from 1977 and up that are worth being slabbed for the 14 dollar a pack fee +S/H and still be able to make money on it. I'll start you finish. Because even 1981,1984 and 1986 Topps FB don't make it cost worthy.
1. 1979-80 topps or OPC hockey pack
2. 1986-87 Fleer Basketball wax pack
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
I say Buyer beware, I mean their are fake cards/fake PSA slabs/fake PCGS slabs, ect ect. I think Ebay has went to far. I say make a rule any pack or box pre 1971 must be graded. selling of wrappers should be limited to 1 wrapper at a time and nothing post 1975. some collectors do collect wrappers. Just my thoughts. (now back to resealing these 1988 Topps Big cards)
/////////////////////////////////////////////
I suppose a reputable authentication/grading company might
be able to offer an ungraded slab that just declared
"Original Seal"
for something less than $14.
Maybe one or more will want to do that.
/////////////////////////////////////////////
I suppose a reputable authentication/grading company might
be able to offer an ungraded slab that just declared
"Original Seal"
for something less than $14.
Maybe one or more will want to do that.
I don't see any other reputable companies wanting to take on the grading or authentication of wax packs. I'm surprised, frankly, even that PSA began doing it, though I understand they have no plans to expand their grading options to anything like rack packs or wax or cello boxes, which leaves GAI as the only option, other than the homemade basement grading companies that may begin to now pop up. Steve Hart has also recently stated that the number of unopened packs coming through to PSA at this point is extremely low and I don't see any profit margin in that enterprise in any event, unless it's scammers slabbing their own packs.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
/////////////////////////////////
If EBAY allowed such packs - which I suspect they may not - the
market would isolate/ostracize the brand. I am not much woried
about that.
If PSA sees a profit chance, I hope they will step up and offer a
simple/cheap seal-authentication service.
.......
Folks who want to rely on the "buyer beware" notion should
realize that notion is what brought us to where we landed
today. It just does't work well in a market that can only expand
by attracting amateur buyers.
I also wonder how this will effect some of the reputable dealers on Ebay: BBCE , Dave and Adams, ect ect.
Oh well Ebay does what Ebay wants. any body what some rare USA coins made in China LOL
Buyer Beware.
Storm: I agree with what you say, but Ebay should refine their New wax pack policy, because as it is, it is a Joke.
Their will always be buyer with less knowledge getting ripped off whether it be designer's clothing or coins or cards or widgets, either on Ebay / craigslist or the local flea market, or even here on CU as it has happened and will probably happen again.
market would isolate/ostracize the brand. I am not much woried
about that.
I disagree. While the experienced and more knowledgeable collectors will avoid such slabs, those who have been buying these resealed packs to begin with will continue doing so. That's basically what has happened already--the auctiosn for these resealed packs go for "bargain" prices because those who are aware of what's going on just avoid them in the first place, but there are many buyers out there without that knowledge to fill the void. Just look at these guy's feedbacks, even from some from long-time collectors who are fooled, and you will see what I mean.
Bottom line, too, is that there is no real profit chance for the slabbing of packs in the first place for a reputbale company, that's why so few packs are being submitted in the first place.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Some people think that they are getting a great deal when in fact they are getting ripped off.
Steve
That is you could sell a self slabbed coin on ebay only you could not state the name of it in the title
or in the description.
Just a pic was allowed.
Not sure how that is working.
Steve