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No Wax Packs Not Graded on E-Bay!!!!!

Morning,
Just had these removed from E-bay.

eBay sent this message to Neil Duty (thedutymon).
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MC019 eBay Listing Removed: Trademark Violation - Unauthorized Item (302369148)




Dear thedutymon(cami@sopris.net),

You recently listed the following listing:

200346550622 - 1979 Topps Black Hole Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopened
200346551251 - 1979 Topps Black Hole Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopened
200346551482 - 1987 Harry & the Hendersons Wax Pack Lot 2 Unopened
200346552055 - 1988 Topps Dinosaur Attack Card Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopen
200347266355 - 1981 Topps Cute'N Cuddly Animal Poster Wax Pack Unopen
350206877697 - 1980 Topps Here's Bo Card Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopen
350206877958 - 1983 Jaws 3-D Card Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopened
350206878417 - 1970 Donruss Skateboard Sticker Wax Pack Lot 2 Unopen
350206879298 - 1978 Topps Mork & Mindy Card Wax Pack Lot 2 Unopened
350206879633 - 1987 Topps 21 Jump Street Wax Pack Lot 4 Unopened


The listing was removed because it violated eBay policy.

POLICY CHANGE: Due to recent fraud concerns, unopened/ungraded wax packs will no longer allowed on eBay







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Wow talk about the Pendulium swinging too far the other way. Does this really apply to Hundreds of Thousands of Listings, did they all go poof at the same time, about 1/2 an hour ago???
Neil
Actually Collect Non Sport, but am just so full of myself I post all over the place !!!!!!!
«1

Comments

  • Holy .........
    imageimageimage
  • That is actually a good thing unless the bulk of your sales are unopened material.
  • PSA/GAI is jumping for joy.
    imageimageimage
  • thedutymonthedutymon Posts: 4,323
    Bill,
    I guess that means I'll have to unload the rest of my Unopened Non Sports Crap on you!!!image

    Neil
    Actually Collect Non Sport, but am just so full of myself I post all over the place !!!!!!!
  • So the scammers will now switch to resealed cellos.
    imageimageimage
  • nightcrawlernightcrawler Posts: 5,110 ✭✭
    Wow, I wonder what the new policy says about boxes and cases of wax and cello packs? And are cello packs included in this?
  • halosfanhalosfan Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭✭
    A twofer as well as they also get rid of the pack searchers and all of those "hot pack" listings.
    Looking for a Glen Rice Inkredible and Alex Rodriguez cards
  • thedutymonthedutymon Posts: 4,323
    Good Day,
    Why am I always a day late, just this morning I put bids in on over 20 different Wax Pack boxes all of it stuff not worth grading, just cheap stuff I keep for several of my regular customers and occasionally a new one. Just store stock which if I win I can't list now.
    Neilimage
    Actually Collect Non Sport, but am just so full of myself I post all over the place !!!!!!!
  • daddymcdaddymc Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭
    I have a bad feeling though that some existing sham card graders or some new unscrupulous pack/box graders are about to set up shop. What's to stop these resealers from dropping packs into a clam shell and printing off a semi-professional looking flip with a "grade"?
    Currently working on: Kurt Warner PSA 9 or 10

  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    I guess all that detective work has paid off, now even honest sellers and collectors can't
    sell unopened unslabbed packs.


    Steve
    Good for you.


  • << <i>I have a bad feeling though that some existing sham card graders or some new unscrupulous pack/box graders are about to set up shop. What's to stop these resealers from dropping packs into a clam shell and printing off a semi-professional looking flip with a "grade"? >>




    There are cards that are not allowed to be listed ungraded. These cards must be graded by PSA, Beckett, SGC or GAI. Not just any old grading company.

    I would assume this would be the case with the packs as well.
  • packCollectorpackCollector Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭
    so bbcexchange can no longer list junk wax? if I want to buy 84 topps , I can't anymore since know one is going to grade that stuff. seems a little extreme to me . all that said , I think this will help get clean things up. I have stuff I won't grade but I would rather keep it and see some reality come back to the market when the crooks get squeezed out.
  • daddymcdaddymc Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I have a bad feeling though that some existing sham card graders or some new unscrupulous pack/box graders are about to set up shop. What's to stop these resealers from dropping packs into a clam shell and printing off a semi-professional looking flip with a "grade"? >>




    There are cards that are not allowed to be listed ungraded. These cards must be graded by PSA, Beckett, SGC or GAI. Not just any old grading company.

    I would assume this would be the case with the packs as well. >>



    It doesn't look like the new policy limits it to those companies though...at least not yet. And I don't think anyone here would trust anything graded new from GAI given their recent track record.
    Currently working on: Kurt Warner PSA 9 or 10

  • Nathaniel1960Nathaniel1960 Posts: 2,310 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Krukcards just took a Kruk in their shorts.
    Kiss me once, shame on you.
    Kiss me twice.....let's party.
  • KK Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭
    I think though that scams like this are gonna start popping up...

    Loophole Scam?
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    If it sticks, it is a good first step.

    The real problem is that EBAY is the primary source of
    supplies for the counterfeit pack-makers.

    Until wrappers and boxes are banned, the fraud chain
    remains intact.

    wrappers


    ///////////

    It has been nearly three-years since I and others were
    barred from listing designer-fashion bags/boxes/cards/wrappers.

    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • Yankees001Yankees001 Posts: 1,496
    Amazing. The CONARTIST are uncovered, and everyone gets hurt.

    I guess only the 1970's and older packs will be listed (most 1986-Now is not worth the price fo grading). Well, it looks like packs might get harder to buy.

    So, I take it this is the new problem:

    Someone will just open up their own pack grading company. No matter what comes in, just grade it UN-OPENED. Most small grading companies grade EX cards NM. So why even look at the pack? Things are going to get interesting, on the un-opened market.

    Dave
  • So many questions. Wonder if this new rule will apply to my new love..trays.

    image
    imageimageimage
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This would be a ridiculous policy and instead of hurting the scammers who will just find something else to screw people over on, it will hurt the honest collectors and sellers. An extreme overraction by ebay, IMO..

    Edit: It does seem, however, from the language in the cancellation reason received by dutymon, that not ALL unopened auctions will be canceled. It seems like they are going to use their judgment on a case by case basis...we'll see..


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I agree with packcollector completely. This would be a ridiculous policy and instead of hurting the scammers who will just find something else to screw people over on, it will hurt the honest collectors and sellers. An extreme overraction by ebay, IMO.. >>



    //////////////////


    Other than reviewing EACH listing and perhaps setting a pack-date cutoff,
    there really is no other solution.

    Also, the "honest collectors and sellers" can use other venues. We can be
    sure that the CROOKS are already gearing up to do so.



    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • Yankees001Yankees001 Posts: 1,496


    << <i>Until wrappers and boxes are banned, the fraud chain
    remains intact. >>



    I do not completely agree with this. Some wrappers are collectible, and neat to display. I had a 1933 Goudey Wrapper before. I will agree that the new wrappers should be banned.

    But, where do you set the line for what can and can not be listed?

    Dave
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think though that scams like this are gonna start popping up...

    Loophole Scam?


    Those packs were sold by Mark Murphy a few months back.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Also, the "honest collectors and sellers" can use other venues. We can be
    sure that the CROOKS are already gearing up to do so.


    Storm, you yourself have said many times that ebay despite all its flaws is the best way to reach the buying public when it comes to selling your wares. There is no other venue like ebay out there for the collector.

    Any way you slice it, a lot of innocent people are being screwed here because of the actions of a few scammers..and that is unfortunate.

    Edit: What is also lost in this discussion, too, is that there are a LOT of bogus GAI graded carp in the new holders which are just as bad as the reseal jobs.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Also, the "honest collectors and sellers" can use other venues. We can be
    sure that the CROOKS are already gearing up to do so.


    Storm, you yourself have said many times that ebay despite all its flaws is the best way to reach the buying public when it comes to selling your wares. There is no other venue like ebay out there for the collector.

    Any way you slice it, a lot of innocent people are being screwed here because of the actions of a few scammers..and that is unfortunate. >>



    //////////////////////////////////////////


    Yup, EBAY has the biggest audience of collectors.

    EBAY also features more stolen/counterfeit goods than
    any venue on the planet.

    Almost ANYTHING they do to tighten it up is a good thing.

    They are NOT equipped to set up a reasonable prohibition
    scheme in ANY category.

    Maybe they can come up with a date cutoff. If not, a total
    ban is about all that they can do.





    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Right now, there are a number of auctions of for resealed packs as we speak, so I guess they are not banning all auctions that quickly..


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • Unless they specify which grading companies will be acceptable under the new policy it's pretty worthless. Any old dope can slab their own packs in the basement and call it graded and list at will. In the end it's like getting the club for your car. Sure, it will deter the run of the mill kids but a professional will always find a way around it.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Unless they specify which grading companies will be acceptable under the new policy it's pretty worthless. Any old dope can slab their own packs in the basement and call it graded and list at will. In the end it's like getting the club for your car. Sure, it will deter the run of the mill kids but a professional will always find a way around it.

    Exactly, and though the honest sellers won't even consider such a scheme, you can be sure the CROOKS will to get around this "policy."


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • MiniDuffMiniDuff Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭
    I just listed a pretty major wax case an hour ago... well see if it applies there or not.
    1975 Mini Collector
    ebay id Duffs_Dugout
    My Ebay Auctions


  • << <i>I just listed a pretty major wax case an hour ago... well see if it applies there or not. >>



    this case comes from his estate, one of only twelve

    I thought there were 26 cases. ?
    imageimageimage
  • KbKardsKbKards Posts: 1,782 ✭✭✭
    "If it sticks, it is a good first step.

    The real problem is that EBAY is the primary source of
    supplies for the counterfeit pack-makers.

    Until wrappers and boxes are banned, the fraud chain
    remains intact."


    I think you're off on this one Storm. Good first step to what? How about banning the sale of all raw cards that go into the packs too? As far as overall numbers go there has to be hundreds of times more complaints about raw cards on Ebay than pack sales. As a percentage of sales pack complaints might be higher but there are way more issues with raw card sales. The solution isn't to ban packs, or the stuff they're made up with. The solution is for Ebay to take action with the obvious habitual bad sellers and remove them. This can be done quite easily with Ebay going to some trusted experts when issues pop up.
  • MiniDuffMiniDuff Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭
    14 of the cases were opened. Only 12 were sealed. The boxes seen here and on ebay so far have come from one of the 7 case opened lots. Very nice boxes so far actually.
    1975 Mini Collector
    ebay id Duffs_Dugout
    My Ebay Auctions
  • ahh. Didn't know that. Thanks
    imageimageimage
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "...The solution is for Ebay to take action with the obvious habitual bad sellers and remove them. This can be done quite easily with Ebay going to some trusted experts when issues pop up. .."

    ////////////////////////////////////////////

    "Quite easily" might be a stretch, but it would be possible.

    There are perceived/potential/likely legal issues that preclude
    such a solution.

    Counterfeit declaration is the responsibility/obligation/privilege
    of a manufacturer/IP-rights holder. EBAY has legal problems
    with inserting itself here; that is what VeRO is for.

    Because TOPPS wrongly believes that counterfeit vintage-packs
    are not their problem, the logical/lawful intervener is - as far as
    I can tell - no where to be found.

    The courts continue, in general, to find that EBAY is NOT an
    enabler of counterfeiters largely BECAUSE the rights-holders
    have a foolproof method of getting fakes off the site.

    A VeRO takedown is absolute and only reversible by the rights
    owner or by a court order.

    TOPPS could enforce VeRO issues and the prohibition on genuine
    packs by EBAY would be unnecessary. That would cost TOPPS
    the price of a dedicated worker, and the money return would
    not be immediately tangible.

    .............

    I suspect, but am not certain, that today's action was largely
    spawned by the most recent efforts of folks on this board.

    EBAY may have gotten tired of dealing with the recent LE
    inquiries on the issue.

    EBAY says they will have a refined and detailed explanation
    of the new policy in a few days.

    //////////////


    Folks who suspect counterfeiting can, if they want to fight
    it, continue to report their concerns to


    www.ic3.gov


    and, of course, counterfeiters can still be reported to EBAY.




    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • So- can i sell my roger rabbit and andy griffith wax boxes now or not?


  • << <i>So- can i sell my roger rabbit and andy griffith wax boxes now or not? >>



    If they give you a hard time on the Roger Rabbit boxes just tell them that you're not bad, you're just drawn that way.


  • << <i>

    << <i>So- can i sell my roger rabbit and andy griffith wax boxes now or not? >>



    If they give you a hard time on the Roger Rabbit boxes just tell them that you're not bad, you're just drawn that way. >>



    image
  • Maybe what eBay should do is something similar to select graded cards. I believe that they have a short list of 10 sportscards that you cannot sell ungraded, the T206 Cobbs being some of them. Maybe they should just draw up a list of the 10-20 most fraudulent packs and require those to be authenticated. They definitely need some sort of rules for this, it seems absurd to narc people trying to sell Mork & Mindy wax boxes or random lots of 1988-1992 Score packs.
  • onebamafanonebamafan Posts: 1,318 ✭✭
    Wow! Neil, sorry to hear that. Just Wow!
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Maybe what eBay should do is something similar to select graded cards. I believe that they have a short list of 10 sportscards that you cannot sell ungraded, the T206 Cobbs being some of them. Maybe they should just draw up a list of the 10-20 most fraudulent packs and require those to be authenticated. They definitely need some sort of rules for this, it seems absurd to narc people trying to sell Mork & Mindy wax boxes or random lots of 1988-1992 Score packs. >>



    //////////////////////////


    Any compromise would likely have to be based on a year-model cutoff.

    What would those years be:


    Baseball

    Basketball

    Football

    Hockey

    Non-Sports

    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,079 ✭✭✭✭
    I think this is a very positive change. As Steve Hart said in his blog 75% of unopened on eBay is no good. I would much rather see the 25% of folks with legit packs get them graded then allow the scammers a chance to sell on eBay. eBay created a venue for a massive amount of fake unopened product to be distributed and I would like to see the venue closed so scammers stop creating so much junk.

    As for folks creating their own pack grading services or slabs, who cares? Look what happens with folks that create their own custom graded slabs. Their stuff sells for next to nothing because most folks buying mid-range to expensive cards on eBay know which grading companies are legit. They also know that the custom graded slabs are custom for a reason. The same thing will happen to anyone that creates custom graded packs. There will be next to no market for them. While GAI has graded some junk there also is a lot of legitimate GAI graded product as well. Much, much, much higher than 25% (which is the estimate for legit unopened on eBay) so it is a win in the end for consumers.

    Robb
  • calaban7calaban7 Posts: 3,002 ✭✭✭


    << <i>That is actually a good thing unless the bulk of your sales are unopened material. >>



    Does this mean that Uncle Fester is going on unemployment ?

    How is he going to make it ?

    What is he going to do with all those wrappers ?

    Does this now give him time to finish his bar ?

    Is it bong time for Gary ?

    All good questions imho---- Lets discuss image
    " In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act " --- George Orwell
  • so does this also mean that any new wax boxes can't be sold like 2009 upper deck,Topps ect ect Baseball FB, Hcky, Basketball ect ect, unless it is graded by PSA or GAI or whoever???

    because if this is true , I see this policy hurting alot of good sellers and the crooks will just find another means of scamming.

    Seriously name any 5 packs from 1977 and up that are worth being slabbed for the 14 dollar a pack fee +S/H and still be able to make money on it. I'll start you finish. Because even 1981,1984 and 1986 Topps FB don't make it cost worthy.

    1. 1979-80 topps or OPC hockey pack
    2. 1986-87 Fleer Basketball wax pack
    3. ?
    4. ?
    5. ?

    I say Buyer beware, I mean their are fake cards/fake PSA slabs/fake PCGS slabs, ect ect. I think Ebay has went to far. I say make a rule any pack or box pre 1971 must be graded. selling of wrappers should be limited to 1 wrapper at a time and nothing post 1975. some collectors do collect wrappers. Just my thoughts. (now back to resealing these 1988 Topps Big cards) image
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "...Seriously name any 5 packs from 1977 and up that are worth being slabbed for the 14 dollar a pack fee +S/H and still be able to make money on it...."

    /////////////////////////////////////////////

    I suppose a reputable authentication/grading company might
    be able to offer an ungraded slab that just declared

    "Original Seal"

    for something less than $14.

    Maybe one or more will want to do that.


    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ..Seriously name any 5 packs from 1977 and up that are worth being slabbed for the 14 dollar a pack fee +S/H and still be able to make money on it...."

    /////////////////////////////////////////////

    I suppose a reputable authentication/grading company might
    be able to offer an ungraded slab that just declared

    "Original Seal"

    for something less than $14.

    Maybe one or more will want to do that.


    I don't see any other reputable companies wanting to take on the grading or authentication of wax packs. I'm surprised, frankly, even that PSA began doing it, though I understand they have no plans to expand their grading options to anything like rack packs or wax or cello boxes, which leaves GAI as the only option, other than the homemade basement grading companies that may begin to now pop up. Steve Hart has also recently stated that the number of unopened packs coming through to PSA at this point is extremely low and I don't see any profit margin in that enterprise in any event, unless it's scammers slabbing their own packs.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "...unless it's scammers slabbing their own packs...."

    /////////////////////////////////


    If EBAY allowed such packs - which I suspect they may not - the
    market would isolate/ostracize the brand. I am not much woried
    about that.

    If PSA sees a profit chance, I hope they will step up and offer a
    simple/cheap seal-authentication service.

    .......


    Folks who want to rely on the "buyer beware" notion should
    realize that notion is what brought us to where we landed
    today. It just does't work well in a market that can only expand
    by attracting amateur buyers.

    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • Even when PSA offers the special 10 dollar a pack grading +S/H. it is cost prohibitive. example BBCE has 1978 topps BB wax packs for 17.00 ea now add on the 10.00 grading fee and the S/H and you have 30.00 plus in a pack. I doubt would sell for more than 25.00 on feebay. Now don't even look at getting any of 1980's baseball packs graded (it's a joke)

    I also wonder how this will effect some of the reputable dealers on Ebay: BBCE , Dave and Adams, ect ect.

    Oh well Ebay does what Ebay wants. any body what some rare USA coins made in China LOLimage

    Buyer Beware.

    Storm: I agree with what you say, but Ebay should refine their New wax pack policy, because as it is, it is a Joke.
    Their will always be buyer with less knowledge getting ripped off whether it be designer's clothing or coins or cards or widgets, either on Ebay / craigslist or the local flea market, or even here on CU as it has happened and will probably happen again.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If EBAY allowed such packs - which I suspect they may not - the
    market would isolate/ostracize the brand. I am not much woried
    about that.


    I disagree. While the experienced and more knowledgeable collectors will avoid such slabs, those who have been buying these resealed packs to begin with will continue doing so. That's basically what has happened already--the auctiosn for these resealed packs go for "bargain" prices because those who are aware of what's going on just avoid them in the first place, but there are many buyers out there without that knowledge to fill the void. Just look at these guy's feedbacks, even from some from long-time collectors who are fooled, and you will see what I mean.

    Bottom line, too, is that there is no real profit chance for the slabbing of packs in the first place for a reputbale company, that's why so few packs are being submitted in the first place.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    And the people just getting back into the hobby would buy the 3rd tier slabbers too.

    Some people think that they are getting a great deal when in fact they are getting ripped off.

    Steve
    Good for you.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    I suspect that EBAY will designate the acceptable slabbers.

    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    With coins they allowed all in but only a certain few could be mentioned in the title or the description.

    That is you could sell a self slabbed coin on ebay only you could not state the name of it in the title

    or in the description.

    Just a pic was allowed.

    Not sure how that is working.


    Steve
    Good for you.
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