PCGS Economy grading service $300 limit

skeeter · May 23, 2009 2:56AM

If you have one or two coins valued from $500 to $1000 mixed in with your economy submission....will PCGS still grade it for $18???

doh · May 23, 2009 2:57AM

If you declare the value of them at under $300 each...

IloiloKano · May 23, 2009 2:58AM

Can you legitimately lowbal the value enough to put each down as $300 in value? If so, then yes. If not, then no.

edited for spelling

OPA · May 23, 2009 3:04AM

Also, keep in mind, PCGS will only insure your coin for the value that you quoted when it is mailed back to you.

JZrarities · May 23, 2009 3:07AM

And prepare yourself,, if the grade ends up matching the value declared.

illini420 · May 23, 2009 3:11AM

Probably won't be a big deal if it's relatively close to the $300 limit. Many coins out there could be worth onlly $300 at one grade, but maybe $500-$1000 or even more at the next grade. Since you're sending it in raw, there's an argument for whatever value you decide, as long as you're comfortable with the insurance value.

But don't send in a raw $20 Saint and say it's only $300!!!

Just a little too obvious as it would melt for 3x that. I'm pretty sure you'd get a call about that or they'd just charge you the difference (plus another $8 fee plus another separate shipping charge!!!!)

7over8 · May 23, 2009 4:10AM

I would doubt that PCGS would allow submission of a coin where it's intrinsic value of metal was > $300
for the MAX $300 submission level

coinkat · May 23, 2009 6:20AM

be careful with this

19Lyds · May 23, 2009 6:44AM

<< And prepare yourself,, if the grade ends up matching the value declared. >>

If only that were true as this implies that PCGS will adjust your grade according to what you state the value is and nothing could be further from the truth!

Many folks wish that their coin will grade high and usually over estimate the graded value. However, occasionally, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then so occasional under estimations are tolerated. But, continuously doing this will certainly warrant a call from PCGS. Do it after that and most likely your next submission will just get rejected.

PerryHall · May 23, 2009 7:11AM

If your coin grades high resulting in a significant value over the limit, I understand PCGS will bill the submitter for the difference in the grading fee.

leothelyon · May 23, 2009 7:17AM

Making an estimation of value of a coin that's not in a holder verses what it might be worth once certified is confusing. I really doubt anyone gets it right every time if ever so there must be a volatile swing in what's expected verses what you end up with. I imagine quite a few refunds are returned to those who are too optimistic with their submissions.

Leo

Frankcoins · May 23, 2009 7:20AM

Such an attempt is totally dishonest. Part of the grading fee reflects the risk that PCGS may at some time have to pay out on their guarantee. It's like understating the value of your home by 2/3 for insurance purposes, but expected full payout if a claim needs to be made.

DonWillis · May 23, 2009 7:39AM

True story -

There was a certain individual who constantly tried to pull off what the OP asked. Submitted coins and valued them far below their real worth, just to save a few bucks on grading.

One day at a show DH saw the individual and walked up to him, apologizing profusely because PCGS had 'lost' his most recent submission, handed him a check for the declared value, and turned around and walked away. The guy almost had a heart attack on the spot!

After letting him suffer for a day, DH told him it was a joke but don't ever do it again. He hasn't.

Lying about the value of your coins is not only dishonest but a breach of your Membership/Dealer agreement. You will get the boot!! Plus we might lose your submission.

illini420 · May 23, 2009 7:42AM

<< True story -

There was a certain individual who constantly tried to pull of what the OP asked. Submitted coins and valued them far below their real worth, just to save a few bucks on grading.

One day at a show DH saw the individual and walked up to him, apologizing profusely because PCGS had 'lost' his most recent submission, handed him a check for the declared value, and turned around and walked away. The guy almost had a heart attack on the spot!

After letting him suffer for a day, DH told him it was a joke but don't ever do it again. He hasn't.

Lying about the value of your coins is not only dishonest but a breach of your Membership/Dealer agreement. You will get the boot!! Plus we might lose your submission.

>>

Should have filmed that and posted it as one of the PCGS videos!!!!

PCcoins · May 23, 2009 7:51AM

<< True story -

There was a certain individual who constantly tried to pull of what the OP asked. Submitted coins and valued them far below their real worth, just to save a few bucks on grading.

One day at a show DH saw the individual and walked up to him, apologizing profusely because PCGS had 'lost' his most recent submission, handed him a check for the declared value, and turned around and walked away. The guy almost had a heart attack on the spot!

After letting him suffer for a day, DH told him it was a joke but don't ever do it again. He hasn't.

Lying about the value of your coins is not only dishonest but a breach of your Membership/Dealer agreement. You will get the boot!! Plus we might lose your submission.

>>

But how do you put a value on spectacular toning? These are the coins I deal with, and have sent in for PCGS grading. I had a hard time deciding the value. There's no price guide for eye appeal and I wouldn't price a rainbow toned coin the same as a blast white one.

skeeter · May 23, 2009 8:01AM

On my last submission..... I did not realize there was a $300 limit but while I was searching the PCGS website, I saw it and sent an e-mail to PCGS before the coins ever arrived to tell them I had made a mistake and to charge my credit card for the "regular" submission charge even though I had some coins in the submission worth less than $50......I wont forget next time.

DonWillis · May 23, 2009 8:04AM

But how do you put a value on spectacular toning?

Ok, fair question. Because this works both ways. By that I mean we have had submissions where the values have been grossly exaggerated. If they are given to us in person we will not accept them. This is because of insurance issues and also this is often the first step in a scam (yes people try to scam us every day!)

We can't - and won't - tell you what to value your coins at. You must tell us, but you have to be realistic. Check a price guide if you don't know or ask a trusted dealer.

LindeDad · May 23, 2009 9:07AM

I sent in a coin that we all agreed on the board in a guess the grade was a VF to XF grade. I valued it at what it cost me bought from a dealer at a show $150.00. Was I ever amassed when the graders said it was worth $900.00!
Was not trying to deceive anybody but sometimes --it happens.
But to even it out on the same submission I declared a coin as worth $100.00 and the graders said it was an altered date not worth anything. I cracked that one out of a ACG slab. Talk about bringing back old memories from around here. That used to be a regular subject for discussion until the lawsuits started.

WinPitcher · May 23, 2009 9:21AM

<<<But how do you put a value on spectacular toning?>>>>

Value it for whatever value you would want for it if it was lost or damaged.

Steve

YaHa · May 23, 2009 9:25AM

<< True story -

There was a certain individual who constantly tried to pull off what the OP asked. Submitted coins and valued them far below their real worth, just to save a few bucks on grading.

One day at a show DH saw the individual and walked up to him, apologizing profusely because PCGS had 'lost' his most recent submission, handed him a check for the declared value, and turned around and walked away. The guy almost had a heart attack on the spot!

After letting him suffer for a day, DH told him it was a joke but don't ever do it again. He hasn't.

Lying about the value of your coins is not only dishonest but a breach of your Membership/Dealer agreement. You will get the boot!! Plus we might lose your submission.

>>

That joke wasn't funny at all.

Boy, that is a serious voliation of trust Don... There are other ways to deal with shady customers..

It's not right what DH did period..

LindeDad · May 23, 2009 9:27AM

<< It's not right what DH did period.. >>

You have that soooooooooo wrong.

Bear · May 23, 2009 9:54AM

The problem is valuing a coin at what you paid for it

or the 20% of that price offered you by a dealer?

OPA · May 23, 2009 10:01AM

<< 

<< It's not right what DH did period.. >>

You have that soooooooooo wrong.

>>

I'm in total agreement with you......"Scam the Scamer"

JupitarCoins · May 23, 2009 10:24AM

<< 

<< True story -

There was a certain individual who constantly tried to pull off what the OP asked. Submitted coins and valued them far below their real worth, just to save a few bucks on grading.

One day at a show DH saw the individual and walked up to him, apologizing profusely because PCGS had 'lost' his most recent submission, handed him a check for the declared value, and turned around and walked away. The guy almost had a heart attack on the spot!

After letting him suffer for a day, DH told him it was a joke but don't ever do it again. He hasn't.

Lying about the value of your coins is not only dishonest but a breach of your Membership/Dealer agreement. You will get the boot!! Plus we might lose your submission.

>>

That joke wasn't funny at all.

Boy, that is a serious voliation of trust Don... There are other ways to deal with shady customers..

It's not right what DH did period.. >>

You know Yaha you have no sense of humor or you are always trying to start something.

WTCG · May 23, 2009 10:46AM

<< 

<< It's not right what DH did period.. >>

I disagree with that opinion.

Many people who are involved with this industry on a full time basis unfortunately have the self-righteous "the world is my cake and I will do what I wanna do" attitude. No amount of verbal or written warnings, threats or a suspension of their account will change their ways. Consequently, making them change their habits by way of the "scared straight" method is probably many times more effective than any threat or warning can accomplish.

YaHa · May 23, 2009 10:46AM

<< 

<< 

<< True story -

There was a certain individual who constantly tried to pull off what the OP asked. Submitted coins and valued them far below their real worth, just to save a few bucks on grading.

One day at a show DH saw the individual and walked up to him, apologizing profusely because PCGS had 'lost' his most recent submission, handed him a check for the declared value, and turned around and walked away. The guy almost had a heart attack on the spot!

After letting him suffer for a day, DH told him it was a joke but don't ever do it again. He hasn't.

Lying about the value of your coins is not only dishonest but a breach of your Membership/Dealer agreement. You will get the boot!! Plus we might lose your submission.

>>

That joke wasn't funny at all.

Boy, that is a serious voliation of trust Don... There are other ways to deal with shady customers..

It's not right what DH did period.. >>

You know Yaha you have no sense of humor or you are always trying to start something.

>>

+1

rgCoinGuy · May 23, 2009 11:05AM

<< True story -

There was a certain individual who constantly tried to pull off what the OP asked. Submitted coins and valued them far below their real worth, just to save a few bucks on grading.

One day at a show DH saw the individual and walked up to him, apologizing profusely because PCGS had 'lost' his most recent submission, handed him a check for the declared value, and turned around and walked away. The guy almost had a heart attack on the spot!

After letting him suffer for a day, DH told him it was a joke but don't ever do it again. He hasn't.

Lying about the value of your coins is not only dishonest but a breach of your Membership/Dealer agreement. You will get the boot!! Plus we might lose your submission.

>>

Great response!

JL3Eleven · May 24, 2009 3:19AM

I'm having the same problem. I want to submit some SHQ's for my registry sets but the difference between a ms67($50+/-) and a ms68($XXX+/-) is pretty big. So do I say all of them are 67's or just a couple? What if I think I have a 69 to two?

IMHO they are all at least ms67's but I feel some are ms68's. Do I pay the extra $16 per coin plus other fees (Shipping, handling) to find out if im right?

PerryHall · May 24, 2009 3:40AM

<< True story -

There was a certain individual who constantly tried to pull off what the OP asked. Submitted coins and valued them far below their real worth, just to save a few bucks on grading.

One day at a show DH saw the individual and walked up to him, apologizing profusely because PCGS had 'lost' his most recent submission, handed him a check for the declared value, and turned around and walked away. The guy almost had a heart attack on the spot!

After letting him suffer for a day, DH told him it was a joke but don't ever do it again. He hasn't.

Lying about the value of your coins is not only dishonest but a breach of your Membership/Dealer agreement. You will get the boot!! Plus we might lose your submission.

>>

Funny story and the proper response by DH. I didn't realise he was into practical jokes. I think I know who this dealer may be. If anyone knows who this dealer is, send me a PM.

19Lyds · May 24, 2009 10:34AM

<< True story -

There was a certain individual who constantly tried to pull off what the OP asked. Submitted coins and valued them far below their real worth, just to save a few bucks on grading.

One day at a show DH saw the individual and walked up to him, apologizing profusely because PCGS had 'lost' his most recent submission, handed him a check for the declared value, and turned around and walked away. The guy almost had a heart attack on the spot!

After letting him suffer for a day, DH told him it was a joke but don't ever do it again. He hasn't.

Lying about the value of your coins is not only dishonest but a breach of your Membership/Dealer agreement. You will get the boot!! Plus we might lose your submission.

>>

<< If your coin grades high resulting in a significant value over the limit, I understand PCGS will bill the submitter for the difference in the grading fee. >>

Evidently not Perry.

mozin · May 24, 2009 2:41PM

The way NGC encapsulated coins are dropping in value so fast, it is difficult to put a value on them.

claychaser · May 26, 2009 1:25AM

Here's a hypothetical:

TrainNut (YN) bought a mint sewn bag of 1963 Lincoln Cents to search for errors and "pop tops". The "money" grade is PCGS 66, he lets say the coin is worth $100-$200, so it would be a nice score for him to "make" one in this grade. He (actually - Dad, me) submits under the "economy" service with a stated value of $150.

Meanwhile, back at the grading room: The stars and planets have lined up right and the coin grades - MS67 RD! It's a pop 5 coin. Visions of selling at Heritage for big money (may in the $ thousands) and buying draped bust coins run through his head.

So, my question is: Did Dad violate the stated value rules?

19Lyds · May 26, 2009 1:32AM

Only if Dad truely thought is was an MS67RD but submitted it with an under estimation on value!

Remember folks, PCGS was set up for dealers with Collectors Club members being added after the fact. You're supposed to have a reasonable guestimation of coin grade and value.

YaHa · May 26, 2009 1:35AM

<< Here's a hypothetical:

TrainNut (YN) bought a mint sewn bag of 1963 Lincoln Cents to search for errors and "pop tops". The "money" grade is PCGS 66, he lets say the coin is worth $100-$200, so it would be a nice score for him to "make" one in this grade. He (actually - Dad, me) submits under the "economy" service with a stated value of $150.

Meanwhile, back at the grading room: The stars and planets have lined up right and the coin grades - MS67 RD! It's a pop 5 coin. Visions of selling at Heritage for big money (may in the $ thousands) and buying draped bust coins run through his head.

So, my question is: Did Dad violate the stated value rules? >>

That's a trick ? for them.. I see your point exactly.. A amature coin collector might see one thing but not see something else.. So basically any TPG wants you to over value your coin and let them laugh at you during lunch in thinking this sucker thinks his/her coin is worth that much... Now this whole issue is a oxymoron.. Damn if you do, damn if you don't.. But if you don't you some TPG might lose your coin..

Frankcoins · May 26, 2009 1:48AM

<< The problem is valuing a coin at what you paid for it

or the 20% of that price offered you by a dealer? >>

If you bought it recently, your cost is the most reasonable valuation, and least
likely to be challenged.

rhedden · May 26, 2009 2:14AM

In the past, I have had a few MS63 or MS64 coins valued around $300, which graded a point higher than expected, and suddenly became $700 or $800 coins. The PCGS folks generally do not complain about this, as a one point difference in grade on a couple of MS pieces is within the limits of human error. I do NOT believe that they will spitefully grade the coin lower to keep it withing the stated value limits. They grade the coins as they see them.

To make up for those possible surprises on an economy submission, I usually over-insure the less expensive coins in the package. If there are a few $150 coins included, I insure all of them for $300 just in case. If the entire Registered mail package goes AWOL (unlikely), then I am covered for as much as I could get for it.

claychaser · May 26, 2009 2:41AM

<< Only if Dad truely thought is was an MS67RD but submitted it with an under estimation on value!

Remember folks, PCGS was set up for dealers with Collectors Club members being added after the fact. You're supposed to have a reasonable guestimation of coin grade and value. >>

Just to stir the pot a little:
For Joe Collector who does not specialize in a series, Lincoln Cents in this example, I would be hard pressed to call a MS66 ($150 value) from a MS 67 ($1000 or more in value) coin. In our case, we may very well submit the best one or 2 coins out of the bag and see what happens.

DennisH · May 26, 2009 2:56AM

My advice has two parts:

1. Value your coins at what you think they are worth (and put it down on the submission), based upon what you think they will grade.
2. Stop and reconsider that amount when you contemplate the tiny possibility that the coins could be stolen or lost somewhere along the way... because it has happened before.

True story: Many rare and valuable Morgan VAMs are common date coins that wouldn't be worth the cost of grading otherwise. There's a huge temptation to submit them for Economy grading (no VAM attribution) and state their value at $300 for insurance purposes on the submission form. But what if they're really $3,000 coins and the worst happens? A friend of mine once did this with a batch involving many coins... and the worst happened. PCGS paid for them promptly -- at the stated value of $300 each. It was just a fraction of what they were really worth, however. But it's a risk he took, and he had no one to blame but himself.

MORGANHUNTER2 · May 26, 2009 3:06AM

Since the limit is set at 300, why not just send what you plan on and hope for the best.

since it would behoove a person to send in more than 1 coin on a submission form the 300 value is a moot point.

I plan on sending in 20 raw coins under the modern tier, I'll insure them at 300 each no matter what- I do not trust the post office anymore than I trust the milkman when I'm at work ( I have a really cute wife).

if out of those 20 I get one or two, hell maybe even 3 that exceed the stated value( like in worth 2K+)- I have no qualms if PCGS calls and sez 'hey you have a few items that kinda go beyond the 300 limit, and a few that did not make it- but we need to bump the insured value to XXXX dollars'...- I would not hesitate in a heartbeat to say here is my CC bill it. and go from there...

But then I may ask them to hold the pkg- I'm on the next flight to L.A. to get them personally...

know what I mean?

and I agree with DW and DH- don't taunt the happy fun ball to much it may POP in your face.

YaHa · May 26, 2009 3:32AM

I have no qualms if PCGS calls and sez 'hey you have a few items that kinda go beyond the 300 limit, and a few that did not make it- but we need to bump the insured value to XXXX dollars'...- I would not hesitate in a heartbeat to say here is my CC bill it. and go from there...

Now that is the most intelligent theory I have read from a member on these boards for a long time. It should be a courtesy call to the submitter if this is the case.. Hell, I have no problem paying the extra insurance cost...

Again, I bet there is a 80/20% that most submitters don't know what their coin would grade.. Paying the U.S.P.S more insurance and shipping fees seems ludicrous to me..

Hell,I thought I had two freaking blazing rail splitter lincolns and none touched with fingers or hands, no hits or gouges, just those die cracks mine you that they were small, grades were 65 and 64..

So simple, I lost big time on shipping and variety fees.. Yea, the game is tough, but I will compare the images to the coins I sent in to the ones I got back... I learned to do this because another company lost my order, said they found it, but it wasn't what I sent to them.. That's why I am worried about these statements..

"Understand no problems with PCGS".. Yet.

mr1931S · May 26, 2009 5:37AM

After letting him suffer for a day, DH told him it was a joke but don't ever do it again. He hasn't.

Good for DH!This is hilarious.Thankfully there were no actual heart attacks.

jmj3esq · May 26, 2009 6:34AM

Thats a funny story about DH.

On a serious note, I once sent in a Kennedy half that graded at near top pop on a Modern Submission. I was not expecting this and declared the value at less than $100. The coin after grading was valued at close to $3000. I dont remember what PCGS did about the return insurance. I hope it wasnt insured at my original value.

My question is, what does PCGS do when a coin grades much higher than anticipated and the value is far beyond the declaired value (and it was not done on purpose)?

RichieURich · May 26, 2009 6:46AM

<< Since the limit is set at 300, why not just send what you plan on and hope for the best.

since it would behoove a person to send in more than 1 coin on a submission form the 300 value is a moot point.

I plan on sending in 20 raw coins under the modern tier, I'll insure them at 300 each no matter what- I do not trust the post office anymore than I trust the milkman when I'm at work ( I have a really cute wife).

if out of those 20 I get one or two, hell maybe even 3 that exceed the stated value( like in worth 2K+)- I have no qualms if PCGS calls and sez 'hey you have a few items that kinda go beyond the 300 limit, and a few that did not make it- but we need to bump the insured value to XXXX dollars'...- I would not hesitate in a heartbeat to say here is my CC bill it. and go from there...

But then I may ask them to hold the pkg- I'm on the next flight to L.A. to get them personally...

know what I mean?

and I agree with DW and DH- don't taunt the happy fun ball to much it may POP in your face. >>

I'n stunned, Morganhunter2! You actually have a milkman who delivers milk to your house?

TwoSides2aCoin · May 26, 2009 6:47AM

Now if I could learn to find coins valued at over $100 to send in bulk.

PerryHall · May 26, 2009 7:11AM

<< My question is, what does PCGS do when a coin grades much higher than anticipated and the value is far beyond the declaired value (and it was not done on purpose)? >>

They keep the coin and send the submitter $300. Haven't you been paying attention?

MadMarty · May 26, 2009 7:14AM

Back about 6 years ago I submitted an ecomony order of Franklins. This was during the AU58 period, I submitted 5 Franklins, figure the value based on MS64FB guidelines. Well the 1962 graded out at 66FB (quite a bit over $300). All I did was call up and have them increase the insurance. I think Russ has the same thing happen with a Kennedy.

YaHa · May 26, 2009 7:29AM

<< Back about 6 years ago I submitted an ecomony order of Franklins. This was during the AU58 period, I submitted 5 Franklins, figure the value based on MS64FB guidelines. Well the 1962 graded out at 66FB (quite a bit over $300). All I did was call up and have them increase the insurance. I think Russ has the same thing happen with a Kennedy. >>

Nice Hit on the 66fb 1962 coin Marty.. I bet you were doing the coin crab dance.. I could see you now.. Hands in the airs, fingers clicking together going around the house trying to nip your wife and kids..Oh, don't forget also trying to do that damn Maccaroni dance or whatever they call it... Again congrats on the 66FB.

COINB0Y · May 26, 2009 8:00AM

<< True story -

There was a certain individual who constantly tried to pull off what the OP asked. Submitted coins and valued them far below their real worth, just to save a few bucks on grading. One day at a show DH saw the individual and walked up to him, apologizing profusely because PCGS had 'lost' his most recent submission, handed him a check for the declared value, and turned around and walked away. The guy almost had a heart attack on the spot!

After letting him suffer for a day, DH told him it was a joke but don't ever do it again. He hasn't. Lying about the value of your coins is not only dishonest but a breach of your Membership/Dealer agreement. You will get the boot!! Plus we might lose your submission.

>>

Great Story!

GoldenEyeNumismatics · May 26, 2009 9:31AM

If PCGS deems that you have misvalued a coin, they'll correct the fee. However, I don't know if they change just the cost of that one coin, or the cost for every coin in the submission.

PCGS Economy grading service $300 limit

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