Ethics and the Hobby

Mintacular · May 16, 2009 9:38AM

My day today at a card show revealed many insights, which to me are interesting, and to others maybe not so much. I would appreciate feedback if this topic piques your interest.

First off, my following breakdown is completely subjective and more than debatable. These are my impressions, not stone cold facts or assertions of truth. I welcome disagreement. Anyway, here we go about sports card dealers:

1. 25% of dealers are 110% ethical. They will tell you exactly why they are charging the price you are looking buy/sell to them. They explain book price, what they expect to get from your card, and will even suggest that you sell yourself on eBay, or see "X" dealer who will give you a better price. These folks are genuine nice people who, in many cases, are retired but love the hobby.

2. 25% of dealers are ethical, but know their business well, and will look to buy/sell at a level that benefits them financially. They will carefully make a fair/honest offer but are damn careful not overpay for items. They will politely decline offers that don't benefit them.

3. 25% of dealers have questionable moral and business ethics but don't completely break the line. They may quote book prices in such a way that biases the customers view of the "deal" they are getting. They may overstate the condition a bit, explain how they need to pay for their kid's college fund, etc. Yes, they stretch the truth, but cannot fool an INFORMED buyer...

4. 25% of dealers are liars, scammers, the worst scum on earth. They will flat out cheat you on your $, sell you trimmed cards, play dumb, sell fake auto's, manipulate you to hell, 'nuff said...

The top 2 categories of sellers tend to have a genuine interest in the hobby and are good collectors themselves. The 3rd category may include folks that have some fleeting interest/respect, and the 4th sees it purely as a profit-making opportunity...

What do you think?

lsutigers1973 · May 16, 2009 9:43AM

What an ironic topic from someone striving for attention.

swartz1 · May 16, 2009 9:53AM

Where is the show located?

WinPitcher · May 16, 2009 10:03AM

Only today did you realize this?

Steve

lawnmowerman · May 16, 2009 10:05AM

CURRENT PSA HOLDER SIZES

Below are the current approximate card holder sizes. These are the maximum sizes; there are many inserts available to provide a more custom fit for smaller cards. Please note that all cards and tickets vary in size. Occasionally, a card or ticket will not fit into the designated holder. If this occurs it will be placed in a Mylar sleeve and put in an oversized holder. There are also card/ticket issues that PSA's current holders cannot accommodate, but may be holdered in the future as new holders are introduced.

Standard - 2 11/16" x 3 13/16"
Tall Boy - 3 1/2" x 5 1/ 6"
Supersized (Ticket) - 3 5/8" x 7 1/2"
Supersized (Check) - 4 1/4" x 10"
T-3 Holder - 5 3/4" x 8"

Mintacular · May 16, 2009 10:06AM

Yes, you cannot truly understand "dealers" until you become one. I guess I've been naive most of my adult life...

lsutigers1973 · May 16, 2009 10:20AM

Order # Submission # Date Received Date Shipped Status Shared?
20304226 4798147 5/14/2009 N/A OK Private
20303292 660767 5/12/2009 N/A OK Private

jivan · May 16, 2009 10:25AM

<< My day today at a card show revealed many insights, which to me are interesting, and to others maybe not so much. I would appreciate feedback if this topic piques your interest.

First off, my following breakdown is completely subjective and more than debatable. These are my impressions, not stone cold facts or assertions of truth. I welcome disagreement. Anyway, here we go about sports card dealers:

1. 25% of dealers are 110% ethical. They will tell you exactly why they are charging the price you are looking buy/sell to them. They explain book price, what they expect to get from your card, and will even suggest that you sell yourself on eBay, or see "X" dealer who will give you a better price. These folks are genuine nice people who, in many cases, are retired but love the hobby.

2. 25% of dealers are ethical, but know their business well, and will look to buy/sell at a level that benefits them financially. They will carefully make a fair/honest offer but are damn careful not overpay for items. They will politely decline offers that don't benefit them.

3. 25% of dealers have questionable moral and business ethics but don't completely break the line. They may quote book prices in such a way that biases the customers view of the "deal" they are getting. They may overstate the condition a bit, explain how they need to pay for their kid's college fund, etc. Yes, they stretch the truth, but cannot fool an INFORMED buyer...

4. 25% of dealers are liars, scammers, the worst scum on earth. They will flat out cheat you on your $, sell you trimmed cards, play dumb, sell fake auto's, manipulate you to hell, 'nuff said...

The top 2 categories of sellers tend to have a genuine interest in the hobby and are good collectors themselves. The 3rd category may include folks that have some fleeting interest/respect, and the 4th sees it purely as a profit-making opportunity...

What do you think? >>

....what do i think?? are you 11???? see the same standards for shoe salesman, car salesman etc... even doctors that are unethical....they see what insurance y ou have and start doing every test under the sun..what a ridiculous thread......they want to financially benefit themselves on deals????// wow, what a concept. did you ever have any other social contact??

ThaSneakster · May 16, 2009 10:31AM

captian obvious i believe this is common sense

calaban7 · May 16, 2009 10:32AM

<< What an ironic topic from someone striving for attention. >>

Lets discuss

MBMiller25 · May 16, 2009 10:42AM

What show are you at?

goye · May 16, 2009 11:06AM

Curious to the origin of the approximate saying of:

Is that the kettle calling the pot black?

lawnmowerman · May 16, 2009 11:08AM

Mintacular · May 16, 2009 11:17AM

I am feeling increasingly uncomfortable with the comments by many board members. While I don't expect folks to agree with me on various issues, I guess I assumed people were heartfelt, genuine, and expressing themselves out of a love/defense for the hobby instead of a personal vendetta or to gather attention for themselves.

Also, maybe I am not picking up the sarcasm from board members, but then again, very few have picked it up from me and have slammed me as a result. In short, I am a very flawed person and have been wrong on some threads. Most of these mistakes have been a result of being naive to certain aspects of the hobby (ex: TTM and autos--had no idea) then purposely being an a-hole,

The other mistakes have been the result of mis-communication, poor sense of humor/trying to have fun, or retaliation to a few who have been (perceived) unfair to me. In short, when I have realized my wrong actions, I have changed course ASAP. I experienced many poor/unethical situations with my local card dealer as a child and have vowed not to do the same to others.

My personal issues (ex: trying to get attention) does not negate the principles/points I'm trying to make. If you want to neg. me for posting often, that's fine, bottom line is that I am in a phase in my life where all I can do and think is about cards. Maybe you have more balance in your life, right now, I'm hooked/addicted. I could spend hours upon hours on eBay or b.s.-ing... I could talk your ear off for hours about card collecting.

As for this forum, I did not realize people knew each other for this long. I jumped in way to quick/overstepped some bounds. I respect PSA cards but am not a devotee (prefer raw cards in most cases). It is possible that I am not the right voice for this forum. I am in the process of scaling back my participation due to negative comments. I am not trying to to make a "pity case" or pitt myself against other members on this board. That is lame, not my style.

If I feel this is a true forum for open discussion and yes, even dumb/naive comments, I will participate. If not, my participation will be limited/non-existent. If that is what you want, you will hear from me rarely. Overall, there is nothing that will kill my love for baseball cards and I hope people like myself can continue to be feel included in this great hobby of ours....

lsutigers1973 · May 16, 2009 11:19AM

<< In short, I am a very flawed person >>

WinPitcher · May 16, 2009 11:26AM

This thread has potential.

Steve

daddymc · May 16, 2009 11:26AM

nightcrawler · May 16, 2009 11:33AM

All Right... that's enough of this insubordination.

Cause when the machine breaks down, WE break down!

ROCKDJRW · May 16, 2009 11:35AM

<< I guess I assumed people were heartfelt, genuine >>

Don't get all bent out of shape. 25% of us are A-holes!! Also I don't trust anyone who is more then 100% ethical. If they can figure out how to exceed 100% they are not to be trusted.

Mintacular · May 16, 2009 11:38AM

I understand there are some "personal" comments made in my reply, it would be great if all would respond to the original comment if they so choose. I don't want this to become a so-called typical "Mintacular" thread but if it becomes so, that is not a result of my comments, but the choice of some others. Thanks, Pat

nightcrawler · May 16, 2009 11:38AM

<< 25% of us are A-holes!! >>

And of that 25%, 15% of us take our job very seriously.

mtcards · May 16, 2009 11:39AM

Only if our government strived for that kind of ethical and moral percentages instead I think we are at 0%, 1%, 2% and 97% in those categories you mentioned

BunchOBull · May 16, 2009 11:39AM

<<

>>

That's an awesome image.

nightcrawler · May 16, 2009 11:44AM

There's an 80% chance that the eagle in the pic is at least 45% domesticated.

Barely a 30% chance that it did anything more than fly 400% of the distance away from the cat, which is 90% of the eagles size.

lsutigers1973 · May 16, 2009 11:49AM

<< 25% of us are A-holes!! >>

and I'm 43% of that 25%

calaban7 · May 16, 2009 11:50AM

I remember when I was alot younger , there was this poster of 3 monkees that stated the following . "There are those that make it happen , there are those that watch it happen and there are those that wonder What happened ".

Mr(s) Mint--- its painfully obvious , which one you are .

I try to learn something new everyday . My views are anathama to quite a few , but I know what I believe in and I belive in , what I know .

Your new revelations every couple of days suggest , someone who's been away for a long time.

Good luck on your glorious future .

thunderdan · May 16, 2009 12:39PM

<< This thread has potential.

Steve >>

Lol.

otwcards · May 16, 2009 3:37PM

1. 25% of posters are 110% ethical. They will tell you exactly why they are thining and will give you the shirt off their back. They explain every response, what they know on the subject, and will even suggest where you can find more information. These folks are genuine nice people who, in many cases, love the hobby.

2. 25% of posters are ethical, but know their business well, and will look to post at a level that benefits them. They will carefully make a fair/honest statements but are damn careful not engage in flame wars. They will politely avoid threads that don't benefit them.

3. 25% of posters have questionable moral and business ethics but don't completely break the line. They may quote others and bends the truth in such a way that biases the view of others. They may overstate the facts a bit, explain how they need to pay for their kid's college fund, etc. Yes, they stretch the truth, but cannot fool an INFORMED reader...

4. 25% of posters are liars, scammers, the worst scum on earth. They will flat out cheat you on your $, sell you trimmed cards, play dumb, sell fake auto's, manipulate you to hell, 'nuff said...

DeutscherGeist · May 16, 2009 6:33PM

This thread does have potential. I took a break from the board. I see that "Mintacular" is a new member, but already has a lot of posts. It seems you guys are on him for something. Kind of reminds me of that "Alan" or "Bailey" character.

As far as the ethics of the hobby goes, I have met very honest dealers in my collecting years, but there have been many of the unethical and shady ones too. Its like that in all hobbies, more or less. Nothing new.

Lets see where this thread takes us. Flame away at will.

WinPitcher · May 16, 2009 7:54PM

<<< Kind of reminds me of that "Alan" or "Bailey" character.>>>>>>

Reminded many of us too.

Steve

nightcrawler · May 16, 2009 8:02PM

<< It seems you guys are on him for something. >>

It's like sidekick on a snowboard, ya gotta take it for the points.

He doesn't seem like he's too bad a guy, but don't tell him I said that... I plan on working him til the bitter end.

Mintacular · May 16, 2009 8:34PM

I guess noboby really cares about the original topic, that's cool, you win some you lose some. Oh well, anybody know any baseball players with really hard to spell first names?

zep33 · May 16, 2009 8:44PM

Bob gets me sometimes

nightcrawler · May 16, 2009 9:50PM

Oh ya, the original topic.

I agree.

swartz1 · May 16, 2009 10:57PM

Can you tell me what show you are at? thanks

Bottom9th · May 16, 2009 11:04PM

<< Bob gets me sometimes >>

Yeah it's taken me my whole life to figure that out. I guess that's why my given name is Robert. Bob should be easier though.

racy1019 · May 16, 2009 11:12PM

Ed Ott

NickM · May 17, 2009 12:30AM

The percentage of dealers in each of the categories is highly dependent on the type of show. A mall show may have a lot more Type 3 and Type 4 dealers, while a major national show may have a lot more Type 1 and Type 2 dealers.
The existence and enforcement of a screening process to keep out Type 4 dealers is part of what makes a show a collector favorite and moves it toward being a major national show.

Nick

CDsNuts · May 17, 2009 1:18AM

You're trying too hard to come up with thought-provoking threads. Every time a hobby-related thought pops in your head you shouldn't feel the need to start a thread; these boards are clogged up with enough crap as it is. Just sit back and read for a while.

lsutigers1973 · May 17, 2009 1:25AM

Before you jump on Lee again stating that all he posts is crap responses, please understand that he does not usually start crap threads. He only adds to the pile of crap.

WinPitcher · May 17, 2009 1:35AM

Keep them coming Pat, these guys don't understand you.

Steve

nam812 · May 17, 2009 1:36AM

<< .........these boards are clogged up with enough crap as it is. Just sit back and read for a while. >>

But then how will he be able to yell "Look at me, look at me"

CDsNuts · May 17, 2009 9:05AM

Before you jump on Lee again stating that all he posts is crap responses, please understand that he does not usually start crap threads. He only adds to the pile of crap.

100% correct. I haven't posted a useful piece of information on here since 1964. However I don't start threads because I have nothing useful to share and no questions to ask that haven't been answered 437 times on here already.

Mintacular · May 17, 2009 9:51AM

Thank you Steve. Now that I understand how this board works, I am going to impose a limit of (1) Mintacular-inspired thread each day MAX, and possibly one more on other boards.

But that that won't preclude me from posting on threads started by other people, ideally to help someone else, or in some cases, to take a shot at guys like "Nuts"

In short, you will likely get your daily dose of Mintacularism each and every day. Yippeee!!!!

calaban7 · May 17, 2009 10:13AM

<< I am going to impose a limit of (1) Mintacular-inspired thread each day MAX, and possibly one more on other boards.

.................................................................................... Yippeee!!!! >>

To those that do not believe there is a GOD in heaven , this may be a start .

I will believe this when I see it.

Mintacular · May 17, 2009 10:25AM

I hear ya, but look back the last week and see the improvement I've made!

BigRedMachine · May 17, 2009 10:38AM

I've got an idea.

Instead of trying to strike up a friendly thread, take the time to do one of the following:

1) Pay for the 80's group rip.
2) Take the time to show that you've paid for the 80's group rip.

You're the only one besides Gumby who isn't showed as paid, or posted that he's paid, and he's laid up in a hospital now.

If you've paid, I offer half an apology. You should take the time to say you've paid.

JMO

shawn

lsutigers1973 · May 17, 2009 10:58AM

Look at me! I need attention! Look at me!

thunderdan · May 17, 2009 11:16AM

<<

>>

I find this to be painfully appropriate for this thread.

DeutscherGeist · May 17, 2009 6:30PM

can someone explain to me what is trying to be conveyed in the picture featuring the eagle and the cat. I can think of many angles of interpretation for this picture.

Of course this can end in disaster...that part is obvious.

The cat seems over confident and should know better than to approach an eagle like that. That eagle can rip the cat to shreds...

Yankees001 · May 17, 2009 8:15PM

I love that Cat/Eagle photo. Where can I get a POSTER of that?

Let me know if they can be purchased anywhere.

Dave

Ethics and the Hobby

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