If I put a roll back together, is it still original?

jmski52 · May 4, 2009 8:56AM

A couple years ago, I posted several end roll toners of some of the 1958-P Roosie rolls I bought on ebay, all of which were never-opened, totally original. In a fit of stupidity, I opened the rolls and removed the end roll toners into 2x2's, keeping the rest of the rolls intact.

Many of the toners were fairly nice, but many were pretty ordinary, too. I've kept each coin carefully-labelled as to it's roll source.

I did check through a couple of the rolls to see if the coins were well-struck, but I didn't really see anything that made my jaw drop.

So.......................if I put the rolls back together, are they still "original" as long as they contain the same coins that they originally did?

Just askin'.

(My opinion is - no, not original. But I wanted to see what others think.)

Fortunately, I did keep all of the 1959-P rolls intact.

lope208 · May 4, 2009 8:57AM

I would say no, but if you're looking to sell them, just be honest and take some good pics and you'll be fine. Besides, at least people will have a better idea as to quality if they've already been opened

TwoSides2aCoin · May 4, 2009 9:00AM

It cannot be an original roll if it's put back together. The answer is in the thread title, friend.

PerryHall · May 4, 2009 9:04AM

I would consider it an original roll if you didn't cherry pick the best coins and replace them with other coins within the roll.

pheh · May 4, 2009 9:06AM

I'm a bit more lenient on this than the others so far. It is still all the original coins from the roll - so calling it a nice original roll of coins but explaining what had been done would certainly not seem duplicitous to me in the least.

Edit: Well, except for Perry!

InternetJunky · May 4, 2009 9:11AM

<< It cannot be an original roll if it's put back together. The answer is in the thread title, friend. >>

bushmaster8 · May 4, 2009 9:12AM

What PerryHall said.

ProofArtworkonCircs · May 4, 2009 9:15AM

Not original, but originally original.

tjkillian · May 4, 2009 9:17AM

Since none of the coins were removed or added, the roll is still as it originally came, therefore I say that it IS original. Just because it has been opened, does not mean it is not still an original, unmolested, unsearched roll.

TwoSides2aCoin · May 4, 2009 9:18AM

".... all the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't put Humpty together again ! "

LindeDad · May 4, 2009 9:18AM

No.

OPA · May 4, 2009 9:19AM

<< ".... all the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't put Humpty together again ! " >>

No longer an "original roll," but just a roll.

mrpotatoheadd · May 4, 2009 9:20AM

<< Just because it has been opened, does not mean it is not still an original, unmolested, unsearched roll. >>

The remaining coins may be original, but the roll *was* molested (sorry, but that wasn't my term...) and it *was* searched.

tjkillian · May 4, 2009 9:23AM

I define molested as altered in someway, i.e. cleaned, AT, scratched, whizzed, et cetera.

Searched to me means removal of one or more coins and replaced with a different coin(s).

Just my opinion. I would buy the roll as original.

PCcoins · May 4, 2009 9:32AM

It wouldn't technically be considered "original unopened" but it would be "original." Depends if the person you are selling them to believes you or not. I would take your word, do you need my mailing address???

ProofArtworkonCircs · May 4, 2009 9:32AM

<<Searched to me means removal of one or more coins and replaced with a different coin(s).>>

I am not so sure. The OP noted that there was nothing sensational in the roll (or else he would have kept it?).
I would say that was a search and what is left, although unchanged, is less desireable.

Gemineye · May 4, 2009 9:38AM

<< I did check through a couple of the rolls to see if the coins were well-struck, but I didn't really see anything that made my jaw drop. >>

Sorry Charley..only the best can be ..Starkist...!!!

lablover · May 4, 2009 9:42AM

I'd say it's an original roll, just not an original unopened roll as long as they're the same coins. But, I still want some of those unopened rolls you got stuffed away. And you thought I forgot.

mrpotatoheadd · May 4, 2009 10:00AM

<< Searched to me means removal of one or more coins and replaced with a different coin(s).

Just my opinion. I would buy the roll as original. >>

But he *did* remove coins: "I opened the rolls and removed the end roll toners."

As for still being original, one of the big reasons people search for them is the prospect of finding hidden gems inside. Maybe it's just me, but I'd have a hard time describing a roll that I'd taken the end toners from and looked over the rest for anything special and not finding any, replaced the toners I'd taken out and then call that roll "original".

GrumpyEd · May 4, 2009 10:06AM

You could put them in a tube and call it and "original tubed roll". I would assume that it could have been checked for cherries and either contained none or if it did they might have been replaced.
It's still not a "put together roll" where each coin has slightly different toning or different rim toning.

If someone were buying rolls they would not think of it the same as a sealed OBW.

BXBOY143 · May 4, 2009 10:09AM

IMO if you buy a car new from the dealer and store it for some time and dont change anything about it, it is still original, so even though you "OPENED" the roll if they are all still the same coins i would say they are still original....but would still disclose what has been was done with then.....

cladking · May 4, 2009 10:09AM

In my definition of the term you could mix them all up and they'd
still be original... ...but only if you'd do the exact same thing no matter
what was in the roll. If you'd have pulled out gems and varieties then
the rolls aren't still origigal just because they lack such coins.

A truly original roll is one with the exact same chance of varieties and
gems as were issued from the mint. If 1% of an issue is a variety than
if you have a sufficient number of original rolls then 1% of the coins must
be that variety. Otherwise the rolls are choiced for that variety or gem.

Your rolls sure don't sound original.

coinkat · May 4, 2009 10:14AM

I agree with what PerryHall wrote.

78750Aggie · May 4, 2009 11:18AM

IMO:

Would a coin be original if were tampered with, cleaned, or altered.

An opened roll may not be cleaned, but may be considered tampered with or altered due to the fact it is no longer originally sealed from the mint.

If opened it's no longer virgin.

cucamongacoin · May 4, 2009 11:31AM

Still original

GoldenEyeNumismatics · May 4, 2009 11:33AM

Yes, the roll is original. Removing a pair of coins from the roll then putting them back in--in the same condition--doesn't change the fact that it's the original group of coins.

PerryHall · May 4, 2009 10:36PM

Once an original roll is openned, good luck trying to convince a potential buyer that it's still an original roll.

pmac · May 4, 2009 10:49PM

To rehash what many have said but in another way, people who buy original rolls are buying to cherry pick, much like you did. If you've already cherry picked, than the 'value' of an original roll is lost. I realize the coins are all from the original roll, but you've already picked them. So my answer would be "no".

AUandAG · May 5, 2009 12:07AM

Yes, as long as the coins in the original roll stay all together and no substitutes.
Think about Morgan original rolls. That's a laugh as they came in bags, not rolls.
But, it is implied that they all came from the same bag and have all remained
together.
Assembled rolls are rolls that have substitutes or just coins from many different sources.

bob

jmski52 · May 5, 2009 12:25AM

Thanks for the wide and varied opinions. Since I know that the rolls were OBW, unopened, and unsearched when I got them, I can unequivocably now state that these (1958-P) rolls are now:

"Still in the original bank wrappers, but not OBW; opened only once (by me), and 96% unsearched (except for the 2 or 3 rolls that I did a cursory look-see through)."

If I were buying these rolls and I knew that they'd been opened - even just one time - I'd consider them as original BU, but certainly not OBW - even if all of the original coins were still in the roll.

Maybe my opinion is geared more toward "virgin" unopened rolls than a roll containing the original 50 coins.

Think about Morgan original rolls. That's a laugh as they came in bags, not rolls. But, it is implied that they all came from the same bag and have all remained together.

Good point, AU and AG. I wasn't around in 1904 or 1921 in order to really know if such a thing as an original roll of Morgans *ever* existed.

Your rolls sure don't sound original.

clad, these rolls *were* as original and untouched as any rolls I've ever seen, including the freshly-wrapped ones I used to buy directly from the banks in the early '60s. The 1959-Ps are still untouched. The 1958-Ps have all been opened by me, but no one else.

My question was designed to seek various interpretations of what an original roll is, and there are several valid ways of looking at the question. Thanks for the responses.

I also bought 13 OBW rolls of 1964-D Roosies from non other than MartyK last year. They are indeed original, although the toning on the end coins doesn't rate them as "jewels". Still, they are OBW.

mrpotatoheadd · May 5, 2009 12:39AM

<< My question was designed to seek various interpretations of what an original roll is, and there are several valid ways of looking at the question. >>

Here's a different way of looking at it:

Suppose you have a chance to buy the following two rolls (same date/mint):

1) An original roll whose owner has looked through the coins and found nothing special.
2) An original roll which has never been opened since the day it was first sealed.

Which would you be willing to pay more for? And if you'd pay the same for either, which would be your choice, if you could only pick one?

And another way:

Suppose you bought a roll described by the seller only as original, with no additional information provided. While talking to the seller after searching through the roll, you tell him that you didn't find anything special and he replies "I know- I didn't either, when I looked through them." What is your reaction to his disclosure at this point? Do you think he should have told you he looked through them before selling them to you as original?

halfhunter · May 5, 2009 3:04AM

<< Yes, as long as the coins in the original roll stay all together and no substitutes.
Think about Morgan original rolls. That's a laugh as they came in bags, not rolls.
But, it is implied that they all came from the same bag and have all remained all
together.
Assembled rolls are rolls that have substitutes or just coins from many different sources.

bob >>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't all coins originally come from the mint loose in bags? They were then wrapped either by the FRB, armored co., or the bank.

dimples · May 5, 2009 3:25AM

all original coins means original roll to me. A lot of original rolls have been put in tubes to protect them.

Just not a sealed original roll.

ambro51 · May 5, 2009 3:30AM

of course not.

garsmith · May 5, 2009 3:32AM

Sounds like an original, opened and searched roll

soty27 · May 5, 2009 3:46AM

It would seem as though some people got confused. Some people said origional because nothing was taken out. That was not the question. The question was " IF I PUT A ROLL BACK TOGETHER IS IT STILL ORIGINAL". Obviously they cannot be original bank wrapped rolls due to the fact you have pulled them out to take a look. You didnt take anything, but that does not change the fact that they are no longer the way they came from the bank. Rendering them unable to still be original bank wrapped rolls. They are now bank rolls with the original contents but no longer a origional roll.

Unknown · May 5, 2009 3:48AM

This content has been removed.

telephoto1 · May 5, 2009 4:29AM

Most buyers equate "original roll" with "never opened or looked through since it was bank wrapped", so in that sense this roll is not original (and by that standard, neither are the majority of rolls offered on the current market).

However, it is original in that the coins are original to the roll, with nothing having been replaced or taken away.

Thus, I'd call it "original but searched", and I think that term would apply most rolls currently being offered as original.

jmski52 · May 5, 2009 6:28AM

I know your question is completely different, but a buyer in these times will have trouble believing anything you tell them whether true or not because of one thing no matter the story the cherry was popped, anything after is second.

Realone, not to worry - none of the rolls are for sale, thus there is no buyer to worry about whether they believe me or not. Secondly, when I do sell the ones that I opened, it will be as BU rolls and not as OBW rolls, as I mentioned previously my standards for original are exactly that, which includes "unopened" as the primary criterion. My main interest here was in eliciting various opinions, which I have done.

However, it is original in that the coins are original to the roll, with nothing having been replaced or taken away.

Thus, I'd call it "original but searched", and I think that term would apply most rolls currently being offered as original.

telephoto1 - the only issue that I have with calling the opened rolls "original but searched" is that it doesn't sound credible, and why should it? I wouldn't buy such a roll for any more of a premium than I otherwise might for a regular BU roll, so the distinction seems moot to me.

It has always made me laugh at how some rolls are described on ebay as "original" when they are anything but. The scammers are out in full force on ebay calling freshly-wrapped, 40-year old coins "original bank wrapped" rolls, when they are clearly wrapped in new wrapping.

mrpotatoheadd · May 5, 2009 6:36AM

I bought a group of coins at a show this past weekend which included about 50 rolls of bankwrapped state quarters. For reasons known only to the original owner, many of the rolls are not marked in any way to indicate what's inside. Only the heads/tails rolls can be identified by state and mint, and I will have to open the rest to confirm the contents. I have no intention of seraching for high grades or varieties- I just want to sell the coins. So here's the question:

How would you describe the opened rolls?

quickwing · May 5, 2009 7:11AM

As described, you have not destroyed the “originality” of the roll. It’s searched and not OBW but still original.

CoinJunkie · May 5, 2009 8:39AM

<< As for still being original, one of the big reasons people search for them is the prospect of finding hidden gems inside. Maybe it's just me, but I'd have a hard time describing a roll that I'd taken the end toners from and looked over the rest for anything special and not finding any, replaced the toners I'd taken out and then call that roll "original". >>

If I put a roll back together, is it still original?

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