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one big way to protect the collector in the face of the counterfeit coin insurgence
Doogy
Posts: 4,508 ✭
Over the past few months, there has understandably been much weeping and gnashing of teeth over the emergence of counterfeit coins in counterfeit slabs. Over this time, the slabs have become more realistic, and the "coins" are undoubtably getting better as well. All of this doesn't bode well for the general collecting public, which is the 95% of coin collectors that don't know these (PCGS and NGC's) forums exist to find access to the diagnostics of fake slabs.
So far, I have seen tons of the fake US trade dollars in PCGS and NGC slabs, as well as seated material, Morgans, British trade dollars, rare Chinese coins and other things. Having been fortunate to travel to China, has also allowed me to see tons more of these in different flavors (both "slabbed" and raw) than the trickle of coins that show up on eBay. The problem is starting to show up in the US too, in some unlikely places like big city swap meets and flea markets. Many have heard me say of the guy that used to set up a whole table of fake PCGS ASEs, AGEs and US plat coins, as well as fake PCGS Pandas at a big flea market in Phoenix. The trickle we are seeing now, will only get much worse very soon.
Many of you may recall a recent thread where a fake PCGS holder containing a fake US trade dollar showed up on ebay with a BIN of something like $8k from a US dealer of legit coins, and a respectable feedback history. I contacted the gent, like a couple others, and have been in conversations with him back and forth for a week now. He has stated that he has tons of US slabbed coinage, and knowing this one may have gotten in scares him. It makes him wonder if he has any more that are fake coins/slabs. Some have noted in the thread that the counterfeiters weren't using the technology that allows the barcodes to match the slab number, but they are now. I recommended that he buy a bar code reader and try it to be sure. I'm sorry to say that the counterfeiters have caught up here too, as the code and number match.
We all know that the counterfeiters are using real numbers from real slabs in efforts to fool some folks, and the only way some are getting caught is by previous auctions records on Heritage, Goldbergs, and the like. These resources are invaluable, especially as the "coins" and fake slabs are getting better all the time, and the counterfeiters are honing their craft.
The one thing we need to happen, is for PCGS to step up to the plate and do what NGC has already begun; take high-res scanned and enlargeable images that are posted next to the certification, that can't be downloaded or maniupulated. Frankly, both services should have implemented this months ago when the problem first arose, but better late than never I suppose. The pictures currently at NGC don't cost the submitter a thing, and doesn't slow down turnaround time. While it is true that this benefit is helpful, but you'll only find newly graded coins with these photos, a simple reslabbing fee of $5 each is all it takes to get the pictures there This is exactly what i did with my four and five figure coins; I plan on sending the lower valued ones soon. All of this protects the consumer (and seller/auction house) to some degree, allows the TPG to help thwart this menace somewhat, and helps maintain the integrity of our hobby.
Right now, we don't have too many options other than good quality pictures of the real coin in a real holder, to be able to discern toning differences, strike characteristics, and other things that will allow a prospective buyer to know that the slabbed coin in his hand, is the real McCoy; and being able to see these images on the website on the company that holdered the coin is invaluable.
my two cents for the night.
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Comments
The 1873-cc TD scanned fine?
I find that hard to belive as the bar code is visually not the same as the one at Heritage.
Here is a pic of the two.
<< <i>"I recommended that he buy a bar code reader and try it to be sure. I'm sorry to say that the counterfeiters have caught up here too, as the code and number match."
The 1873-cc TD scanned fine?
I find that hard to belive as the bar code is visually not the same as the one at Heritage.
Here is a pic of the two.
they do look different, I was only going by what he reported back to me.
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While it is true that this benefit is helpful, but you'll only find newly graded coins with these photos, a simple reslabbing fee of $5 each is all it takes to get the pictures there This is exactly what i did with my four and five figure coins; I plan on sending the lower valued ones soon. >>
Hmmmm. When a coin goes in for a reholder it isn't seen by a grader. What's to keep a scammer from sending in a fake coin in a fake slab for a reholder!!!!
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So far, I have seen tons of the fake US trade dollars in PCGS and NGC slabs, as well as seated material, Morgans, British trade dollars, rare Chinese coins and other things. >>
Define "tons" please.....
I know there have been some, but I haven't seen a pandemic of swine flu proportions of them......am I just sheltered?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
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<< <i>
While it is true that this benefit is helpful, but you'll only find newly graded coins with these photos, a simple reslabbing fee of $5 each is all it takes to get the pictures there This is exactly what i did with my four and five figure coins; I plan on sending the lower valued ones soon. >>
Hmmmm. When a coin goes in for a reholder it isn't seen by a grader. What's to keep a scammer from sending in a fake coin in a fake slab for a reholder!!!! >>
wrong, it is seen by a grader; at least NGC has been doing this for the past year with a finalizer. maybe they have a minimum dollar figure it has to be worth before a grader takes a second look before re-holdering, but it is happening as i know if for a fact. I'd be surprised if this guy is looking at scuffed up fatty slabs with an MS63 81-S Morgan before re-holdering, but who knows.
maybe PCGS doesn't do this, but it would be to their folly.
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<< <i>
So far, I have seen tons of the fake US trade dollars in PCGS and NGC slabs, as well as seated material, Morgans, British trade dollars, rare Chinese coins and other things. >>
Define "tons" please.....
I know there have been some, but I haven't seen a pandemic of swine flu proportions of them......am I just sheltered?
AGreed. There aren't that many and reporting/judicious good Samaritan bidding has keep most of them from being sold to unsuspecting victims. --Jerry
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5