Attribute and grade this Bust Half Dime please Surely I get a "You Suck" for this!

UtahCoin · April 30, 2009 3:59AM

I think I know what it is, but let's hear your opinion.

MrHalfDime · April 30, 2009 4:15AM

It is what you think it is. It is a new (fifth known example) of the extremely rare 1833 LM-5/V10. I just received an email from the new owner, plus this image, to confirm the attribution. This is a very significant coin, and only the fifth example reported. The first known example was discivered by Tom Holland and Howard Barron at Falmouth Coin in Cape Cod about twenty years ago. It is now in the collection of a Baltimore collector, and in a PCGS AU-55 slab. For approximately 13 years there were no other examples discovered, until my friend and die marriage sleuth Stan Kubacki discovered the second, confirming example in VF at a Central States Show. He offered it to me at that time, and for reasons I still cannot explain, I declined. It then went into the Russ Logan collection. Russ later discovered a mint state example, and sold the VF example to a Tennessee specialist. After Russ Logan passed away, in 2002, the mint state example (NGC MS-61) sold to the Tennessee collector, who in turn sold me the VF-20 example (at three times the price it was initially offered to me!). About two years ago a fourth example, in F-VF grade, showed up on eBay, unattributed, and sold to the same Baltimore collector who owns the discovery coin (I was the under bidder). That made the population four (4) examples, in (61, 55, 20, 15) grades. This example appears to be the third finest known, easily eclipsing my VF-20 piece and the eBay piece. Congratulations to the unnamed new owner, who has made a rather auspicious start to a die marriage set of Capped Bust half dimes.

For those interested in the attribution of this extremely rare die marriage, the obverse die exhibits strong repunching of star 6 on the top two points, and the star-to-dentil relationships are UUCL. On the reverse, the S of PLURIBUS is entirely under E of STATES, both loops of S2 are filled, and the scroll ends under the left upright of M of AMERICA.

UtahCoin · April 30, 2009 4:42AM

<< Utah,
congrads again, please tell the scoop, where, when, how, and do you collect cbhd's?
Alan >>

About a month ago I decided to start a set of Capped Bust Half Dimes by die marriage. I thought they were quite reasonably in the XF - AU grade range, and so I started. About 3 weeks ago I was at a coin show and was able to purchase about 12 different examples, most R-3's and R-4's and one R-5.

Fast forward to about a a week and a half ago and I found this example, of all places, eBay. It was a 7 day auction that languished with 2 bids and at $91 all week. The pictures were not the best ( auction link), but I was convinced it was the LM-5. I sweated all week and placed a snipe bid of about $2500, and waited. Unbelievably, only one other bidder placed a bid and I won it for about $260.

So who says you can't find some bargains on the Bay??

stinkinlincoln · April 30, 2009 5:10AM

WOW!!! An R7 off ebay? Nice score, and great eye!

richardshipp · April 30, 2009 5:43AM

Holy smokes.... Congrats !!!!

That is a "YOU SUCK" if I ever saw one.

Barndog · April 30, 2009 5:44AM

excellent find! Some people advise to collect the keys first...and you are adhering to that advice!

richardshipp · April 30, 2009 5:49AM

My book says that this is the rarest of the die marriages. Is this still correct now?

Barndog · April 30, 2009 5:51AM

<< My book says that this is the rarest of the die marriages. Is this still correct now? >>

no, rarest is not in the book: 1835 LM-12 (two now known)

devious · April 30, 2009 6:02AM

Are there any other 1833 half dimes that are similar...that exhibit the filled in S? And the S in PLURIBIS underneath the E in STATES? Also, is there clashing of the bust on the reverse on the LM-5/V10?

Thanks

Barndog · April 30, 2009 6:06AM

<< Are there any other 1833 half dimes that are similar...that exhibit the filled in S? And the S in PLURIBIS underneath the E in STATES? Also, is there clashing of the bust on the reverse on the LM-5/V10?

Thanks >>

yes, the most common die marriage of 1833 is the LM-10, which shares the same reverse as the 1833 LM-5.

I've got 90 of 92 die marriages...and this is one of the two I still lack

lasvegasteddy · April 30, 2009 6:08AM

i've only but a congrats to input here and a "you suck"

jdillane · April 30, 2009 6:59AM

You suck!!!!

Utah, I am confused though. Are you the owner??

UtahCoin · April 30, 2009 7:01AM

<< You suck!!!!

Utah, I am confused though. Are you the owner?? >>

Yep, I am.

jdillane · April 30, 2009 7:02AM

Congrats!!!!!!! I bet your smile easily eclipses your avatar's.

fivecents · April 30, 2009 7:02AM

YOU SUCK!

Congratulations, Great find!!!!

richardshipp · April 30, 2009 7:03AM

I already said it... but would add... you make all us geeks proud.

FilthyBroke · April 30, 2009 7:05AM

Nice work, congrats!

CoinJunkie · April 30, 2009 7:15AM

The most amazing thing to me is that this was offered by a high volume dealer, as opposed
to someone disposing of a relative's collection, etc. In any case, nice job of spotting it!

Cladiator · April 30, 2009 7:17AM

Congratulations man

You've instantly joined the ranks of a handful of half dime collectors with some claim to fame. I look forward to reading an article about this in a JR Journal, you are a member yes? Job very well done Utah, very well done.

ps. Thank you for finding another beautiful rarity for all of us half dime geeks to enjoy.

MrHalfDime · April 30, 2009 7:19AM

"Utah, I am confused though. Are you the owner??"

I'm sure that several people were confused about the identity of the owner after reading my post, but I did not want to 'out' him without his permission.

I think my first Capped Bust half dime was an R1, and certainly not an R7. Nice beginning to what should prove to be an interesting journey .......... albeit a bit antcilmatic after this incredible start.

relicsncoins · April 30, 2009 7:19AM

So explain to us non die marriage collectors, what an attributed LM-5 in this condition is worth. It might better show us what a fantastic deal/coin you have.

Thanks

Barndog · April 30, 2009 7:21AM

<< So explain to us non die marriage collectors, what an attributed LM-5 in this condition is worth. It might better show us what a fantastic deal/coin you have.

Thanks >>

last one that sold was a VF on ebay a few years ago (two years, I think). It sold for $4K.

Rob85635 · April 30, 2009 7:29AM

Wow, congratulations indeed. For us more novice collectors can this particular attribution and others be found in publications such as the Cherrypickers or is it to specialzed for that? Any resources you can recommend would be appreciated.

CoinJunkie · April 30, 2009 7:29AM

<< So explain to us non die marriage collectors, what an attributed LM-5 in this condition is worth. It might better show us what a fantastic deal/coin you have.

Thanks >>

Well, he put in a max bid of $2500, so that ought to give you a ballpark...

Barndog · April 30, 2009 7:30AM

<< Wow, congratulations indeed. For us more novice collectors can this particular attribution and others be found in publications such as the Cherrypickers or is it to specialzed for that? Any resources you can recommend would be appreciated.

>>

"Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837" by Logan and McCloskey. Out of print, but available every now and then.

MrHalfDime · April 30, 2009 7:51AM

" ... can this particular attribution and others be found in publications such as the Cherrypickers or is it to specialzed for that? Any resources you can recommend would be appreciated."

It is too specialized to be found in the 'Cherrypicker's Guide', but as Barndog mentioned, a detailed description can be found in the Logan/McCloskey 'Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837'. The finest known example, from the Russ Logan Collection, can be seen here:

http://rob.com/russ/collection/1800.html

Barndog · April 30, 2009 7:54AM

one of these days I will get to Maine and show MrHalfDime how to post that pic

seanq · April 30, 2009 7:55AM

<< The most amazing thing to me is that this was offered by a high volume dealer, as opposed
to someone disposing of a relative's collection, etc. In any case, nice job of spotting it! >>

It definitely happens, I picked off an 1873 seated dime DDO last year that had been offered several times by a high volume dealer with pics just blurry enough that you couldn't be certain of the attribution. When I finally bit the bullet and bought it, it arrived in a flip with at least seven different stickers with different eBay auction numbers stacked on it. When you think about the sheer volume of coins that cross the blocks on eBay, it's a wonder more rarities aren't found every day.

Utah, there are three or four threads running right now on cherrypicking, I think your finding this coin should be Exhibit A in all of them. Excellent work!

Sean Reynolds

Rob85635 · April 30, 2009 7:58AM

<< "Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837" by Logan and McCloskey. Out of print, but available every now and then. >>

Thank you for the information, as usual this forum is unparalleled.

JRocco · April 30, 2009 8:03AM

Talk about a post that just makes you feel good.
Congrats on the mega pick UC.

RichieURich · April 30, 2009 9:09AM

Congratulations, UtahCoin, on a super cherrypick! And a great start to the Capped Bust Half Dime series!

<< "Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837" by Logan and McCloskey. Out of print, but available every now and then. >>

I sometimes have these in stock.

Cladiator · April 30, 2009 9:20AM

<< So explain to us non die marriage collectors, what an attributed LM-5 in this condition is worth. It might better show us what a fantastic deal/coin you have.

Thanks >>

Put it this way. If Barndog, Mr.HalfDime, RichieURich or myself had seen the auction in time our beloved UtahCoin would not have won the auction at his max bid of $2500.

RichieURich · April 30, 2009 9:53AM

<< 

<< Congratulations, UtahCoin, on a super cherrypick! And a great start to the Capped Bust Half Dime series!

<< "Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837" by Logan and McCloskey. Out of print, but available every now and then. >>

I sometimes have these in stock. >>

What do you have in stock, the subject coin or the book

>>

Just the book. Haven't ever had an 1833 LM-5 in stock.

WinPitcher · April 30, 2009 9:53AM

Outstanding!

Steve

fc · April 30, 2009 9:59AM

congrats!

but i have to admit i am having a hard time getting excited. you have
to be hard core to get into this die marriage thing. it just is not for me.

JupitarCoins · May 2, 2009 11:32AM

Sorry but you cant get a you suck by asking for it. It dont work that way.

pennyannie · May 2, 2009 12:25PM

Here is a you suck.

Now start a bidding war and keep us posted. Finding 5k coins for 260 a pop is a good way to pay the bills

numiscene · May 11, 2009 4:33PM

Great pickup. The eBay pics were not bad at all; assuming the eBay listing was searchable, one could actually ID the marriage within three seconds. Back during 1993 .. when the Holland/Barron discovery specimen was still unique .. Jules Reiver asked for an estimate of the number of specimens of this marriage I believed to be in existance; I gave him a figure of 4-7 specimens (including examples yet to be identified as being from this die marriage). The August 2005 Fine/VF sleeper languished at $46 for nearly a week after my early proxy bid before leaping to $4K ... still far under my proxy ... in the final 30 seconds. It surfaced on eBay reportedly four decades after being purchased from a small time coin dealer outside of London, then resting in a collection within the United Kingdom. BTW, the Holland/Barron discovery specimen is not, and never has been, encapsulated in a third party holder. My own starter CBHD was also an "R-7" ... an 1835 purchased in 1978 solely to represent the CBHD type; using the Valentine reference in 1983 I determined it to be V-8 (now AKA LM-2). Upon confirming the attribution Jules informed me that it was an "R-7" variety owned by just two out of eleven specialists ... and from that point on I was hooked and off-and-running, chasing CBHDs.