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Attribute and grade this Bust Half Dime please **Surely I get a "You Suck" for this!**

UtahCoinUtahCoin Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭✭✭
I think I know what it is, but let's hear your opinion.
image
I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.

Comments

  • MrHalfDimeMrHalfDime Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭✭
    It is what you think it is. It is a new (fifth known example) of the extremely rare 1833 LM-5/V10. I just received an email from the new owner, plus this image, to confirm the attribution. This is a very significant coin, and only the fifth example reported. The first known example was discivered by Tom Holland and Howard Barron at Falmouth Coin in Cape Cod about twenty years ago. It is now in the collection of a Baltimore collector, and in a PCGS AU-55 slab. For approximately 13 years there were no other examples discovered, until my friend and die marriage sleuth Stan Kubacki discovered the second, confirming example in VF at a Central States Show. He offered it to me at that time, and for reasons I still cannot explain, I declined. It then went into the Russ Logan collection. Russ later discovered a mint state example, and sold the VF example to a Tennessee specialist. After Russ Logan passed away, in 2002, the mint state example (NGC MS-61) sold to the Tennessee collector, who in turn sold me the VF-20 example (at three times the price it was initially offered to me!). About two years ago a fourth example, in F-VF grade, showed up on eBay, unattributed, and sold to the same Baltimore collector who owns the discovery coin (I was the under bidder). That made the population four (4) examples, in (61, 55, 20, 15) grades. This example appears to be the third finest known, easily eclipsing my VF-20 piece and the eBay piece. Congratulations to the unnamed new owner, who has made a rather auspicious start to a die marriage set of Capped Bust half dimes.

    For those interested in the attribution of this extremely rare die marriage, the obverse die exhibits strong repunching of star 6 on the top two points, and the star-to-dentil relationships are UUCL. On the reverse, the S of PLURIBUS is entirely under E of STATES, both loops of S2 are filled, and the scroll ends under the left upright of M of AMERICA.
    They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
  • UtahCoinUtahCoin Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Utah,
    congrads again, please tell the scoop, where, when, how, and do you collect cbhd's?
    Alan >>



    About a month ago I decided to start a set of Capped Bust Half Dimes by die marriage. I thought they were quite reasonably in the XF - AU grade range, and so I started. About 3 weeks ago I was at a coin show and was able to purchase about 12 different examples, most R-3's and R-4's and one R-5.

    Fast forward to about a a week and a half ago and I found this example, of all places, eBay. It was a 7 day auction that languished with 2 bids and at $91 all week. The pictures were not the best ( auction link), but I was convinced it was the LM-5. I sweated all week and placed a snipe bid of about $2500, and waited. Unbelievably, only one other bidder placed a bid and I won it for about $260.

    So who says you can't find some bargains on the Bay??
    I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector.
    Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
  • WOW!!! An R7 off ebay? Nice score, and great eye!
  • richardshipprichardshipp Posts: 5,647 ✭✭✭
    Holy smokes.... Congrats !!!!

    That is a "YOU SUCK" if I ever saw one. image
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    excellent find! Some people advise to collect the keys first...and you are adhering to that advice!
  • richardshipprichardshipp Posts: 5,647 ✭✭✭
    My book says that this is the rarest of the die marriages. Is this still correct now?
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>My book says that this is the rarest of the die marriages. Is this still correct now? >>



    no, rarest is not in the book: 1835 LM-12 (two now known)
  • deviousdevious Posts: 1,690
    Are there any other 1833 half dimes that are similar...that exhibit the filled in S? And the S in PLURIBIS underneath the E in STATES? Also, is there clashing of the bust on the reverse on the LM-5/V10?

    Thanks
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Are there any other 1833 half dimes that are similar...that exhibit the filled in S? And the S in PLURIBIS underneath the E in STATES? Also, is there clashing of the bust on the reverse on the LM-5/V10?

    Thanks >>



    yes, the most common die marriage of 1833 is the LM-10, which shares the same reverse as the 1833 LM-5.

    I've got 90 of 92 die marriages...and this is one of the two I still lack
  • lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭
    i've only but a congrats to input here and a "you suck"image
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


  • jdillanejdillane Posts: 2,362 ✭✭✭
    You suck!!!!


    Utah, I am confused though. Are you the owner??
  • UtahCoinUtahCoin Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>You suck!!!!


    Utah, I am confused though. Are you the owner?? >>



    Yep, I am.
    I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector.
    Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
  • jdillanejdillane Posts: 2,362 ✭✭✭
    Congrats!!!!!!! I bet your smile easily eclipses your avatar's.
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    YOU SUCK!image

    Congratulations, Great find!!!!image
  • richardshipprichardshipp Posts: 5,647 ✭✭✭
    I already said it... but would add... you make all us geeks proud.
  • Nice work, congrats!image
  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The most amazing thing to me is that this was offered by a high volume dealer, as opposed
    to someone disposing of a relative's collection, etc. In any case, nice job of spotting it!
  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Congratulations man image You've instantly joined the ranks of a handful of half dime collectors with some claim to fame. I look forward to reading an article about this in a JR Journal, you are a member yes? Job very well done Utah, very well done.

    ps. Thank you for finding another beautiful rarity for all of us half dime geeks to enjoy. image


  • MrHalfDimeMrHalfDime Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭✭
    "Utah, I am confused though. Are you the owner??"

    I'm sure that several people were confused about the identity of the owner after reading my post, but I did not want to 'out' him without his permission.

    I think my first Capped Bust half dime was an R1, and certainly not an R7. Nice beginning to what should prove to be an interesting journey .......... albeit a bit antcilmatic after this incredible start. image
    They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
  • relicsncoinsrelicsncoins Posts: 7,833 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So explain to us non die marriage collectors, what an attributed LM-5 in this condition is worth. It might better show us what a fantastic deal/coin you have.

    Thanks
    Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So explain to us non die marriage collectors, what an attributed LM-5 in this condition is worth. It might better show us what a fantastic deal/coin you have.

    Thanks >>



    last one that sold was a VF on ebay a few years ago (two years, I think). It sold for $4K.
  • Rob85635Rob85635 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭
    Wow, congratulations indeed. For us more novice collectors can this particular attribution and others be found in publications such as the Cherrypickers or is it to specialzed for that? Any resources you can recommend would be appreciated.

    image
    Rob the Newbie
  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So explain to us non die marriage collectors, what an attributed LM-5 in this condition is worth. It might better show us what a fantastic deal/coin you have.

    Thanks >>


    Well, he put in a max bid of $2500, so that ought to give you a ballpark...
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Wow, congratulations indeed. For us more novice collectors can this particular attribution and others be found in publications such as the Cherrypickers or is it to specialzed for that? Any resources you can recommend would be appreciated.

    image >>



    "Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837" by Logan and McCloskey. Out of print, but available every now and then.
  • MrHalfDimeMrHalfDime Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭✭
    " ... can this particular attribution and others be found in publications such as the Cherrypickers or is it to specialzed for that? Any resources you can recommend would be appreciated."

    It is too specialized to be found in the 'Cherrypicker's Guide', but as Barndog mentioned, a detailed description can be found in the Logan/McCloskey 'Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837'. The finest known example, from the Russ Logan Collection, can be seen here:

    http://rob.com/russ/collection/1800.html
    They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image


    one of these days I will get to Maine and show MrHalfDime how to post that pic image
  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,568 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The most amazing thing to me is that this was offered by a high volume dealer, as opposed
    to someone disposing of a relative's collection, etc. In any case, nice job of spotting it! >>



    It definitely happens, I picked off an 1873 seated dime DDO last year that had been offered several times by a high volume dealer with pics just blurry enough that you couldn't be certain of the attribution. When I finally bit the bullet and bought it, it arrived in a flip with at least seven different stickers with different eBay auction numbers stacked on it. When you think about the sheer volume of coins that cross the blocks on eBay, it's a wonder more rarities aren't found every day.

    Utah, there are three or four threads running right now on cherrypicking, I think your finding this coin should be Exhibit A in all of them. Excellent work!


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • Rob85635Rob85635 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭


    << <i>"Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837" by Logan and McCloskey. Out of print, but available every now and then. >>


    Thank you for the information, as usual this forum is unparalleled.
    Rob the Newbie
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Talk about a post that just makes you feel good.
    Congrats on the mega pick UC.
    image
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • RichieURichRichieURich Posts: 8,359 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Congratulations, UtahCoin, on a super cherrypick! And a great start to the Capped Bust Half Dime series!



    << <i>"Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837" by Logan and McCloskey. Out of print, but available every now and then. >>


    I sometimes have these in stock.

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So explain to us non die marriage collectors, what an attributed LM-5 in this condition is worth. It might better show us what a fantastic deal/coin you have.

    Thanks >>

    Put it this way. If Barndog, Mr.HalfDime, RichieURich or myself had seen the auction in time our beloved UtahCoin would not have won the auction at his max bid of $2500. image
  • RichieURichRichieURich Posts: 8,359 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Congratulations, UtahCoin, on a super cherrypick! And a great start to the Capped Bust Half Dime series!



    << <i>"Federal Half Dimes 1792-1837" by Logan and McCloskey. Out of print, but available every now and then. >>


    I sometimes have these in stock. >>



    What do you have in stock, the subject coin or the bookimage >>



    Just the book. Haven't ever had an 1833 LM-5 in stock.

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Outstanding!


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • fcfc Posts: 12,788 ✭✭✭
    congrats!

    but i have to admit i am having a hard time getting excited. you have
    to be hard core to get into this die marriage thing. it just is not for me.
  • Sorry but you cant get a you suck by asking for it. It dont work that way.
    image
    Positive:
    BST Transactions: DonnyJf, MrOrganic, Justanothercoinaddict, Fivecents, Slq, Jdimmick,
    Robb, Tee135, Ibzman350, Mercfan, Outhaul, Erickso1, Cugamongacoins, Indiananationals, Wayne Herndon

    Negative BST Transactions:
  • pennyanniepennyannie Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭
    Here is a you suck.

    Now start a bidding war and keep us posted. Finding 5k coins for 260 a pop is a good way to pay the bills
    Mark
    NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
    working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!

    RIP "BEAR"
  • Great pickup. The eBay pics were not bad at all; assuming the eBay listing was searchable, one could actually ID the marriage within three seconds. Back during 1993 .. when the Holland/Barron discovery specimen was still unique .. Jules Reiver asked for an estimate of the number of specimens of this marriage I believed to be in existance; I gave him a figure of 4-7 specimens (including examples yet to be identified as being from this die marriage). The August 2005 Fine/VF sleeper languished at $46 for nearly a week after my early proxy bid before leaping to $4K ... still far under my proxy ... in the final 30 seconds. It surfaced on eBay reportedly four decades after being purchased from a small time coin dealer outside of London, then resting in a collection within the United Kingdom. BTW, the Holland/Barron discovery specimen is not, and never has been, encapsulated in a third party holder. My own starter CBHD was also an "R-7" ... an 1835 purchased in 1978 solely to represent the CBHD type; using the Valentine reference in 1983 I determined it to be V-8 (now AKA LM-2). Upon confirming the attribution Jules informed me that it was an "R-7" variety owned by just two out of eleven specialists ... and from that point on I was hooked and off-and-running, chasing CBHDs.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • StewStew Posts: 1,002
    Stunning Just Stunning!
    and surely deserving of a YOU SUCK
    Congratulations

    image
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,793 ✭✭✭✭✭
    stay away from me.
  • RTSRTS Posts: 1,408
    Nice.
    image
  • Billet7Billet7 Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
    Yep, you suck...oh how it would be to suck...I look forward to the day that the same can be said about me!
  • TrainNutTrainNut Posts: 140 ✭✭


    << <i>Holy smokes.... Congrats !!!!

    That is a "YOU SUCK" if I ever saw one. image >>



    image

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