<< <i>Just how much is this box that has SteveK so upset about?? >>
I ain't the least bit upset because it didn't cost me anything and it won't cost me anything because one day I may buy graded cards from BBCE and have complete confidence in the transaction, but for reasons I stated, I am not going to purchase unopened packs from any baseball card dealer, and that's my prerogative, right?
I'm just trying to guide those who are interested in busting vintage packs from what I believe is a stone cold loser, to a possible winner...and in my view the best way for a possible winner would be to win a bid from a reputable auction house for an interesting lot of vintage unopened packs.
<< <i>Just how much is this box that has SteveK so upset about?? >>
I ain't the least bit upset because it didn't cost me anything and it won't cost me anything because one day I may buy graded cards from BBCE and have complete confidence in the transaction, but for reasons I stated, I am not going to purchase unopened packs from any baseball card dealer, and that's my prerogative, right?
I'm just trying to guide those who are interested in busting vintage packs from what I believe is a stone cold loser, to a possible winner...and in my view the best way for a possible winner would be to win a bid from a reputable auction house for an interesting lot of vintage unopened packs. >>
Just trying to clarify... and it might be all the beer and gin, but are you saying that buying unopened from Steve is a guaranteed loss? Now, don't get me wrong. I don't believe you can purchase a vintage box such as this and come out if you bust all the packs. no matter who is selling.... unless there are several 10's... of stars, but it just sounds like you are saying Steve would pull the star packs. I won't disagree with you that busting a box to grade the cards is more than likely going to be a losing proposition, but you are coming across as saying that Steve.. as a knowledgeable dealer would pull all the packs with good cards on top or bottom. For that matter may pull packs if he knows the order of cards. I just don't buy that with BBCE. Please clarify.
I don't think that Steve K meant to bash Steve Hart when he said that it would be an poor investment becuase he thought the expected value would be less than the purchase price, and he nor any of us should fault steve hart for trying to sell a fairly hard to get box for as much as he is able to. BUT I don't think for a second that Steve H would search the packs and pull stuff. I once bought a lot of 10 GAI 7.5 '86 fleer BKB from him which yielded 2 Jordans. He could have easily have substituted these packs for non Jordan packs. I'm not putting him up for sainthood, but I have nothing but positive experience with him. Part of me also thinks that he has worked to hard too long to risk ruining his very good reputation to make a couple extra bucks by doing anything shady.
<< <i>Just how much is this box that has SteveK so upset about?? >>
I ain't the least bit upset because it didn't cost me anything and it won't cost me anything because one day I may buy graded cards from BBCE and have complete confidence in the transaction, but for reasons I stated, I am not going to purchase unopened packs from any baseball card dealer, and that's my prerogative, right?
I'm just trying to guide those who are interested in busting vintage packs from what I believe is a stone cold loser, to a possible winner...and in my view the best way for a possible winner would be to win a bid from a reputable auction house for an interesting lot of vintage unopened packs. >>
Well that has to be calling the kettle black, because in my opinion most reputable auction houses (All sales final) are crooked baseball card dealers, Or as JFK said "all business men are are crooks" because Joe Kennedy told me so and he was a businessman/bootlegger! I'll even go as far as saying I bet topps in 1952 double printed card # 311 , but they kept half the print run of 311 in there vault!!!!!!!!! Well I am going back to my bar and try to steal some more 75 Topps wrappers without the barmaid catching me! buying 75 commons nm mt paying a nickel a piece!
<< <i>Just how much is this box that has SteveK so upset about?? >>
I ain't the least bit upset because it didn't cost me anything and it won't cost me anything because one day I may buy graded cards from BBCE and have complete confidence in the transaction, but for reasons I stated, I am not going to purchase unopened packs from any baseball card dealer, and that's my prerogative, right?
I'm just trying to guide those who are interested in busting vintage packs from what I believe is a stone cold loser, to a possible winner...and in my view the best way for a possible winner would be to win a bid from a reputable auction house for an interesting lot of vintage unopened packs. >>
Just trying to clarify... and it might be all the beer and gin, but are you saying that buying unopened from Steve is a guaranteed loss? Now, don't get me wrong. I don't believe you can purchase a vintage box such as this and come out if you bust all the packs. no matter who is selling.... unless there are several 10's... of stars, but it just sounds like you are saying Steve would pull the star packs. I won't disagree with you that busting a box to grade the cards is more than likely going to be a losing proposition, but you are coming across as saying that Steve.. as a knowledgeable dealer would pull all the packs with good cards on top or bottom. For that matter may pull packs if he knows the order of cards. I just don't buy that with BBCE. Please clarify.
Tim >>
Tim - I've already made my points about this as clear as I can...you can take it or leave it.
Maybe this thread will help you understand some points I'm trying to make:..if not then hire Nam as an interpreter since it was his thread.
The real payoff in ripping packs like 1971 baseball is not really even star cards anyway, but low pop commons...the registry is a powerful drug!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Just how much is this box that has SteveK so upset about?? >>
I ain't the least bit upset because it didn't cost me anything and it won't cost me anything because one day I may buy graded cards from BBCE and have complete confidence in the transaction, but for reasons I stated, I am not going to purchase unopened packs from any baseball card dealer, and that's my prerogative, right?
I'm just trying to guide those who are interested in busting vintage packs from what I believe is a stone cold loser, to a possible winner...and in my view the best way for a possible winner would be to win a bid from a reputable auction house for an interesting lot of vintage unopened packs. >>
Well that has to be calling the kettle black, because in my opinion most reputable auction houses (All sales final) are crooked baseball card dealers, Or as JFK said "all business men are are crooks" because Joe Kennedy told me so and he was a businessman/bootlegger! I'll even go as far as saying I bet topps in 1952 double printed card # 311 , but they kept half the print run of 311 in there vault!!!!!!!!! Well I am going back to my bar and try to steal some more 75 Topps wrappers without the barmaid catching me! buying 75 commons nm mt paying a nickel a piece!
>>
I don't disagree at all with your basic assessment, but I think if the interested group would "pick and choose" we could eventually find some auction that suited our "requirements" to buy - that to me would be half the fun, reviewing the auctions and determining and finding one that appeared to provide the best opportunity for a fun and profitable bust. I don't think I'd get any disagreements, that busts are a lot more fun when winners are found. Maybe we'd only find one every few years or maybe not at all, but if we didn't then I'll just continue busting a box of modern crap every now and then to get my little pack opening adrenaline rush thrill - I'd rather do that than blow money on a cherry picked, basically predetermined loser.
<< <i>Just how much is this box that has SteveK so upset about?? >>
I ain't the least bit upset because it didn't cost me anything and it won't cost me anything because one day I may buy graded cards from BBCE and have complete confidence in the transaction, but for reasons I stated, I am not going to purchase unopened packs from any baseball card dealer, and that's my prerogative, right?
I'm just trying to guide those who are interested in busting vintage packs from what I believe is a stone cold loser, to a possible winner...and in my view the best way for a possible winner would be to win a bid from a reputable auction house for an interesting lot of vintage unopened packs. >>
Just trying to clarify... and it might be all the beer and gin, but are you saying that buying unopened from Steve is a guaranteed loss? Now, don't get me wrong. I don't believe you can purchase a vintage box such as this and come out if you bust all the packs. no matter who is selling.... unless there are several 10's... of stars, but it just sounds like you are saying Steve would pull the star packs. I won't disagree with you that busting a box to grade the cards is more than likely going to be a losing proposition, but you are coming across as saying that Steve.. as a knowledgeable dealer would pull all the packs with good cards on top or bottom. For that matter may pull packs if he knows the order of cards. I just don't buy that with BBCE. Please clarify.
Tim >>
It is not easy to bait and switch packs if you are selling an entire box. It is fairly easy to do so if you are selling packs individually outside of the pretense of an unopened box, whether it's Steve Hart or anyone else who has knowledge.
Edit: Further, it may have been I who started the pack-pulling theory. In any case, I don't believe Steve Hart does this. However, what I do believe is that if you buy an unopened pack outside of a box, you have less of a chance of getting a good card compared to if you bought a pack from a group rip from an entire box.
For $10K, couldn't you instead get a really nice NRMT/MT set loaded with PSA 8 or even 9 key cards? IMO, that'd be a better way to spend $10K on 1971 Topps. But that's just me.
......but the thrill would not be there! these are 38yr old packs, not to mention one of the most sought after, condition sensitive set Topps ever produced, and Steve would not have bought them if they looked sealed or damaged. i bet these are damn near as crisp as they were when produced. i know there are some gems hidden in this box and wish i had the spondulix to uncover them.......
To continue to harp on my point about pack selling, in the recent BBCE rips that I have participated in, some of the participants have stated that they would "slab the pack" once they have discovered that the expected number of "key rookies" have been pulled. Is this in any way ethical or moral, I dunno. But I certainly wouldn't buy any single vintage pack outside of a box from anyone over here, except maybe from the BBCE.
<< <i>For $10K, couldn't you instead get a really nice NRMT/MT set loaded with PSA 8 or even 9 key cards? IMO, that'd be a better way to spend $10K on 1971 Topps. But that's just me. >>
You are right but I for one would still rather bust the wax!!!
To continue to harp on my point about pack selling, in the recent BBCE rips that I have participated in, some of the participants have stated that they would "slab the pack" once they have discovered that the expected number of "key rookies" have been pulled. Is this in any way ethical or moral, I dunno. But I certainly wouldn't buy any single vintage pack outside of a box from anyone over here, except maybe from the BBCE.
No question a premium should be placed upon truly complate boxes and/or sealed cases, but when it comes to vintage unopened, few collectors can individually afford to purchase a full box, much less a sealed case, which is really the only true way to guarantee that the boxes are original as the boxes themselves were not sealed during this era.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Buying this box to bust is no different than me buying a 1984 Topps rack case looking for minty fresh Mattingly rookies, just on a lessor scale. I spend $140-150 on a case when I could have 2 PSA 10 Mattingly rookies for the same price on eBay but what fun would that be? With the 71 box however, a PSA 10 Nolan Ryan would cover the cost of the entire box. If you were to get that lucky, you are left with 239 other minty fresh commons and stars that could also possibly grade high and provide for a much higher return.
On the other hand, you could get a horribly centered box with 240 worthless 1971 Topps commons. However, if you can afford to drop 10 grand on one box of unopened baseball cards, the money lost is obviously not that big of a deal.
Comments
<< <i>Just how much is this box that has SteveK so upset about??
I ain't the least bit upset because it didn't cost me anything and it won't cost me anything because one day I may buy graded cards from BBCE and have complete confidence in the transaction, but for reasons I stated, I am not going to purchase unopened packs from any baseball card dealer, and that's my prerogative, right?
I'm just trying to guide those who are interested in busting vintage packs from what I believe is a stone cold loser, to a possible winner...and in my view the best way for a possible winner would be to win a bid from a reputable auction house for an interesting lot of vintage unopened packs.
<< <i>
<< <i>Just how much is this box that has SteveK so upset about??
I ain't the least bit upset because it didn't cost me anything and it won't cost me anything because one day I may buy graded cards from BBCE and have complete confidence in the transaction, but for reasons I stated, I am not going to purchase unopened packs from any baseball card dealer, and that's my prerogative, right?
I'm just trying to guide those who are interested in busting vintage packs from what I believe is a stone cold loser, to a possible winner...and in my view the best way for a possible winner would be to win a bid from a reputable auction house for an interesting lot of vintage unopened packs. >>
Just trying to clarify... and it might be all the beer and gin, but are you saying that buying unopened from Steve is a guaranteed loss? Now, don't get me wrong. I don't believe you can purchase a vintage box such as this and come out if you bust all the packs. no matter who is selling.... unless there are several 10's... of stars, but it just sounds like you are saying Steve would pull the star packs. I won't disagree with you that busting a box to grade the cards is more than likely going to be a losing proposition, but you are coming across as saying that Steve.. as a knowledgeable dealer would pull all the packs with good cards on top or bottom. For that matter may pull packs if he knows the order of cards. I just don't buy that with BBCE. Please clarify.
Tim
<< <i>
<< <i>Just how much is this box that has SteveK so upset about??
I ain't the least bit upset because it didn't cost me anything and it won't cost me anything because one day I may buy graded cards from BBCE and have complete confidence in the transaction, but for reasons I stated, I am not going to purchase unopened packs from any baseball card dealer, and that's my prerogative, right?
I'm just trying to guide those who are interested in busting vintage packs from what I believe is a stone cold loser, to a possible winner...and in my view the best way for a possible winner would be to win a bid from a reputable auction house for an interesting lot of vintage unopened packs. >>
Well that has to be calling the kettle black, because in my opinion most reputable auction houses (All sales final) are crooked baseball card dealers,
Or as JFK said "all business men are are crooks" because Joe Kennedy told me so and he was a businessman/bootlegger!
I'll even go as far as saying I bet topps in 1952 double printed card # 311 , but they kept half the print run of 311 in there vault!!!!!!!!!
Well I am going back to my bar and try to steal some more 75 Topps wrappers without the barmaid catching me!
buying 75 commons nm mt paying a nickel a piece!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Just how much is this box that has SteveK so upset about??
I ain't the least bit upset because it didn't cost me anything and it won't cost me anything because one day I may buy graded cards from BBCE and have complete confidence in the transaction, but for reasons I stated, I am not going to purchase unopened packs from any baseball card dealer, and that's my prerogative, right?
I'm just trying to guide those who are interested in busting vintage packs from what I believe is a stone cold loser, to a possible winner...and in my view the best way for a possible winner would be to win a bid from a reputable auction house for an interesting lot of vintage unopened packs. >>
Just trying to clarify... and it might be all the beer and gin, but are you saying that buying unopened from Steve is a guaranteed loss? Now, don't get me wrong. I don't believe you can purchase a vintage box such as this and come out if you bust all the packs. no matter who is selling.... unless there are several 10's... of stars, but it just sounds like you are saying Steve would pull the star packs. I won't disagree with you that busting a box to grade the cards is more than likely going to be a losing proposition, but you are coming across as saying that Steve.. as a knowledgeable dealer would pull all the packs with good cards on top or bottom. For that matter may pull packs if he knows the order of cards. I just don't buy that with BBCE. Please clarify.
Tim >>
Tim - I've already made my points about this as clear as I can...you can take it or leave it.
Maybe this thread will help you understand some points I'm trying to make:..if not then hire Nam as an interpreter since it was his thread.
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=699056&highlight_key=y
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Just how much is this box that has SteveK so upset about??
I ain't the least bit upset because it didn't cost me anything and it won't cost me anything because one day I may buy graded cards from BBCE and have complete confidence in the transaction, but for reasons I stated, I am not going to purchase unopened packs from any baseball card dealer, and that's my prerogative, right?
I'm just trying to guide those who are interested in busting vintage packs from what I believe is a stone cold loser, to a possible winner...and in my view the best way for a possible winner would be to win a bid from a reputable auction house for an interesting lot of vintage unopened packs. >>
Well that has to be calling the kettle black, because in my opinion most reputable auction houses (All sales final) are crooked baseball card dealers,
Or as JFK said "all business men are are crooks" because Joe Kennedy told me so and he was a businessman/bootlegger!
I'll even go as far as saying I bet topps in 1952 double printed card # 311 , but they kept half the print run of 311 in there vault!!!!!!!!!
Well I am going back to my bar and try to steal some more 75 Topps wrappers without the barmaid catching me!
buying 75 commons nm mt paying a nickel a piece!
I don't disagree at all with your basic assessment, but I think if the interested group would "pick and choose" we could eventually find some auction that suited our "requirements" to buy - that to me would be half the fun, reviewing the auctions and determining and finding one that appeared to provide the best opportunity for a fun and profitable bust. I don't think I'd get any disagreements, that busts are a lot more fun when winners are found. Maybe we'd only find one every few years or maybe not at all, but if we didn't then I'll just continue busting a box of modern crap every now and then to get my little pack opening adrenaline rush thrill - I'd rather do that than blow money on a cherry picked, basically predetermined loser.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Just how much is this box that has SteveK so upset about??
I ain't the least bit upset because it didn't cost me anything and it won't cost me anything because one day I may buy graded cards from BBCE and have complete confidence in the transaction, but for reasons I stated, I am not going to purchase unopened packs from any baseball card dealer, and that's my prerogative, right?
I'm just trying to guide those who are interested in busting vintage packs from what I believe is a stone cold loser, to a possible winner...and in my view the best way for a possible winner would be to win a bid from a reputable auction house for an interesting lot of vintage unopened packs. >>
Just trying to clarify... and it might be all the beer and gin, but are you saying that buying unopened from Steve is a guaranteed loss? Now, don't get me wrong. I don't believe you can purchase a vintage box such as this and come out if you bust all the packs. no matter who is selling.... unless there are several 10's... of stars, but it just sounds like you are saying Steve would pull the star packs. I won't disagree with you that busting a box to grade the cards is more than likely going to be a losing proposition, but you are coming across as saying that Steve.. as a knowledgeable dealer would pull all the packs with good cards on top or bottom. For that matter may pull packs if he knows the order of cards. I just don't buy that with BBCE. Please clarify.
Tim >>
It is not easy to bait and switch packs if you are selling an entire box. It is fairly easy to do so if you are selling packs individually outside of the pretense of an unopened box, whether it's Steve Hart or anyone else who has knowledge.
Edit: Further, it may have been I who started the pack-pulling theory. In any case, I don't believe Steve Hart does this. However, what I do believe is that if you buy an unopened pack outside of a box, you have less of a chance of getting a good card compared to if you bought a pack from a group rip from an entire box.
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings
<< <i>For $10K, couldn't you instead get a really nice NRMT/MT set loaded with PSA 8 or even 9 key cards? IMO, that'd be a better way to spend $10K on 1971 Topps. But that's just me. >>
You are right but I for one would still rather bust the wax!!!
No question a premium should be placed upon truly complate boxes and/or sealed cases, but when it comes to vintage unopened, few collectors can individually afford to purchase a full box, much less a sealed case, which is really the only true way to guarantee that the boxes are original as the boxes themselves were not sealed during this era.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
On the other hand, you could get a horribly centered box with 240 worthless 1971 Topps commons. However, if you can afford to drop 10 grand on one box of unopened baseball cards, the money lost is obviously not that big of a deal.