What caused this??? ... with a 2000 post GIVEAWAY!! ... WINNERS POSTED on Page 2
pursuitofliberty
Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭✭✭
What caused this reverse die characteristic?
Look closely and you will see what appears to be doubling throughout much of the design. This is what I am asking about.
As this marks my 2000th post in a little over four and a half years ... I will use this as a giveaway thread as well. I want to
thank PCGS and all of you for making this a place I enjoy visiting.
The rules are simple. Post your answer(s) here, or post a response here and PM your answer. If you are a YN, please let me
know that in your response as I will award bonus consideration for YN's.
First Prize: will be awarded for the most accurate (or believeably accurate) answer.
Best Prize: will be awarded for the most creative, funny, silly or otherwise outstanding non-accurate answer.
The contest ends before I go to bed on Sunday night. I don't know when that will be, but I'm on the West Coast and I have to
get up very early on Monday (o' dark thirty).
The two prizes that will be awarded are a 1940-S Mercury Dime with 90% Flat Split Bands graded MS-64, and a 1941-S Washington
Quarter graded AU58 which is original and wholesome.
Both of these were purchased from a prominent Board Member, and I generally agree with the grading.
I will choose the winners, but I may consult with others. I'll flip a coin after I decide the two winners for who gets to choose their
prize first. Heads for First Prize. Tails for for Best Prize.
Get your thinking caps on, or the other one as needed
... and give me something to think about!
editted to add ... I'll give you my two answers when it's all over as well!
Look closely and you will see what appears to be doubling throughout much of the design. This is what I am asking about.
As this marks my 2000th post in a little over four and a half years ... I will use this as a giveaway thread as well. I want to
thank PCGS and all of you for making this a place I enjoy visiting.
The rules are simple. Post your answer(s) here, or post a response here and PM your answer. If you are a YN, please let me
know that in your response as I will award bonus consideration for YN's.
First Prize: will be awarded for the most accurate (or believeably accurate) answer.
Best Prize: will be awarded for the most creative, funny, silly or otherwise outstanding non-accurate answer.
The contest ends before I go to bed on Sunday night. I don't know when that will be, but I'm on the West Coast and I have to
get up very early on Monday (o' dark thirty).
The two prizes that will be awarded are a 1940-S Mercury Dime with 90% Flat Split Bands graded MS-64, and a 1941-S Washington
Quarter graded AU58 which is original and wholesome.
Both of these were purchased from a prominent Board Member, and I generally agree with the grading.
I will choose the winners, but I may consult with others. I'll flip a coin after I decide the two winners for who gets to choose their
prize first. Heads for First Prize. Tails for for Best Prize.
Get your thinking caps on, or the other one as needed
... and give me something to think about! editted to add ... I'll give you my two answers when it's all over as well!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
0
Comments
Yes that was a totally silly answer, but a very sweet coin, and thanks for the chance!
Oh, and congrats on 2k!
and i'm only 19 years old. thanks for doing this!
and the kind of flair you show in your first post is a bit off-center, dont ya think!
bump for the evening crowd
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
In 1866, James B. Longacre hired his Nephew, Bubba J. Longacre
to assist in designing the reverse of the Shield Nickel.
Very few specimens of his handy work remain today,
as his tenure as an engraver was quite short.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
the list of things that can cause blurred or double vision is long. [/stupid response]
<< <i>Longacre doubling. >>
Agreed, this is seen on many Longacre designs.
JP
Capped Bust Half Dollars by Variety & Die State Pictorial Refrence
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
(PS: The rays were caused by striking the coins in direct sunlight. Later, the mint put up window shades and this eliminated the pesky rays.)
That is the way that all of the coins look that come off of a new die for that design. As the die is repolished, the extra step is removed. This is a way for the mint operator to know when the die is nearing the end of its useful life.
"Longacre Doubling” is what you see here, though it is sometimes confused with strike doubling or machine damage doubling. LD is rounded where the other two are flat or look like a shelf. There are two different theories behind the cause of Longacre Doubling.
One theory is that the engraver would touch up the master die with punches, creating a small lip to aid the metal flow during stamping. An experience die maker would conclude Longacre did this intentionally to produce the dies cheaper and to extend die life. Modern die makers will use older, worn hubs to make the first imressions in die steel, then use the newer, fresh hubs to make the final impressions to bring out the details. On dies that do show Longacre Doubling, die wear and/or die polish erases the effect so later die state coins do not appear to have this doubling. This is consistent with many examples of hub doubling found in modern coins. This is the explanation that makes the most sense to me.
Another theory stems from the fact that, back in the day, the main design was created on a galvano and transferred to a master hub using a reducing lathe, then the master hub was used to make the master die. The outer design was then added to the master die using a punch, and the engraver could add more detail by filing the sides of the punch, which left a lip, and when struck too hard (because they are trying to get more detail, after all) the lip would leave an impression on the master die, creating the doubling. This doubling would then appear down stream in the working hubs, working dies, and coins. I don't buy this theory though, as it doesn't account for the doubling of the main design elements.
Aaron
thanks for the contest!
thats a good one
close second `80 proof doubling`
<< <i>die errosion doubling >>
Ditto, Like the 1999-P nickel. Congradulations on 2K
That got in a pickle
As the mint guy
Mounted the die
The planchet shifted west
Who could answer best
What happened to the reverse
The owner turned to collectors universe
They gave their answers hoping it’s on time
To win the graded quarter or dime…
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Without knowing the exact date - I'd have to say its an 1866 because the
..." 5 "... was re-engraved on the die. Its not strike doubling IMHO
because the under-digit is doubled completely around the " 5 ".
I don't collect this series but have seen my fair share of Shield Nickels.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
"If I say something in the woods, and my wife isn't around to hear it. Am I still wrong?"
The craftsman tooling the coin could not tell that he had not squared the edge of the lettering, or the tool needed broke an the one they had couldn't finish the job.
How about they restamped a previously minted coin?
Thanks for the chance
(Oh, btw, if I win I may be late in replying. I see that I have an appointment with the eye doctor early on Monday.)
seriously, though: it looks like some sort of machine doubling, to me, and I tend to like the "Longacre Doubling" theory that is emerging here on this thread.
'dude
The mint actually wanted to make a dime but the 1 and 0 wouldn't fit in the space so this was the next best thing......................
Congrats on 2K
Hoard the keys.
and thanks so far to everyone who's entered
and oh man, is it gonna be tough to judge some of these
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
as it was asked. as in, not what it was called but, what caused it.
i like 5 o`clock shadow for `best answer`
thought proof doubling, 80 proof,is also great.
When I first purchased the coin, over a decade ago, this was part of my description ...
There was a definative re-cutting oir re-hubbing of the reverse die which seems to appear as an experimental pressure relief attempt; quite possible as striking problems, especially in the earlier issues of this series, are legendary. The rework evidence around the bolder devices (especially the 5) is noticable as a complete "step", but one with little depth cut into the die.
Places like this have caused me to learn quite a bit more over the last ten years. Although I certainly beleive "Die Errosion" is possible, "Longacre doubling" is much more plausilble. In fact, I am not exactly sure, and still consider that "die recutting" is a consideration.
So, for First Place I really had a hard time.
But since amiller took the time to try and explain the two different therories behind "Longacre doubling", and one of our resident experts on shield nickels also PM'd me his explaination which supported "Longacre doubling", I award amiller First Prize.
Now the really hard part ... the Best Prize.
I think my 17 year old daughter has a great sense of humor, and so I asked her to help me with the judging. We found several of these VERY funny, so even if you didn't win, thank you so much for making us laugh, a LOT, and occassionally scratch our heads.
After narrowing it down to walmann, woodardcoin, relicsncoins and timber100 as our Finalists, the Best Prize goes to ...
woodardcoin for the "5 o'clock shadow"
And the coin flip coes to ... it was a 2001 D Lincoln ... Heads ... so amiller selects first
We also decided to award a third prize. We're calling it the Off the Wall prize.
We have no idea what we're sending yet, but it'll be good, maybe, sortof ... we promise!
My daughter asked me what kind of stuff RWB was on ...
So RWB gets the mystery Off the Wall prize!!
Again, thank you all for helping make it an interesting day ... and an interesting four and a half years around here.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
My daughter asked me what kind of stuff RWB was on ... ... and I had to agree, especially if you know that RWB probably could have come up with a nice dissertation.
So RWB gets the mystery Off the Wall prize!! yep, so RWB ... come on down!
Why, thank you! I understand your 17-yr old's concern, but assure her all is well - just too many hours inhaling dust in the archives. Also, the cat didn't fall off the wall - it was trying to keep warm by snuggling next to the press. They do the same thing with truck brakes...with similar results.
Kindly donate my prize to a deserving YN at your local coin club, or on these boards. I really have enough $4 Stellas.
Also, congrats again on 2000 posts!
JP
JP
Capped Bust Half Dollars by Variety & Die State Pictorial Refrence
Dwayne F. Sessom
Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
<< <i>What caused this reverse die characteristic?
Look closely and you will see what appears to be doubling throughout much of the design. This is what I am asking about.
I know the giveaway is over but wanted to share the true (Not true) story to this coin. Origianlly it was minted a a disme piece, where the 5 on top of the 5 totalled 10 cents. And there you have it folks, an artists failed attempt to make a difference.
Ray