Yet another ebay seller to avoid...this time with a twist!

gumbyfan · February 6, 2009 12:23PM

First off, we're not talking about a lot of money here. Secondly, read this whole message...the end is worth it I think.

I ordered two lots of cards from a seller on eBay:

1990 TOPPS #290 ROBIN YOUNT LOT OF 9 MINT *S1
1991 STUDIO #80 ROBIN YOUNT LOT OF 13 MINT *S1

The two lots cost $4.50 and adding in the $4 for shipping and we're not talking about much money. Still, I expect to receive the items I pay for. As noted in the auction titles above, both lots were in "MINT" condition. I've purchased raw cards on eBay before, so I've learned to adjust my expectations for what the word "MINT" should mean. Still, I thought I'd take a shot. I ordered the cards on January 27th, paid immediately, and the cards were shipped out 2 days later. No problems so far.

I received the package yesterday. I wasn't very pleased when I saw that $1.17 of postage was affixed to the bubble mailer considering I paid $4 for shipping, but if the cards arrive safely, I won't complain. I opened the package to find all 22 cards shoved into a SINGLE card saver.

How many cards is a card saver designed to hold? I digress.

I removed the tape from over the top of the card saver and gently removed the cards. All of the corners were damaged by the poor packaging. The 1990 Topps cards had some serious chipping all the way around...not to mention they were off center with print dots in the exact same spot on every card. The 1991 Studio cards were better, but the corners were still damaged from being squeezed into the card saver.

I tried to do the right thing by contacting the seller. Here is the exact message I sent him:

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Hello, I received the package containing these two items today and have a problem. You noted the condition of the cards as "mint" in your listings. The cards all have chipping and/or soft corners and are not in mint condition. Also, the UltraPro sleeve that you shoved all 22 cards in was made to contain a single card - not 22. I am guessing this form of packaging is what caused the damage to the cards. Lastly, I paid $4 for shipping and I see $1.17 of postage on the package. I would like to return the entire package to you in the form it was shipped to me and get a full refund for my final sale price as well as my shipping costs - $8.50. Please let me know how you plan to handle this. Thank you. Craig
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I think I was being reasonable. If I wasn't, feel free to reply and tell me so. In the mean time, here was the sellers first response:

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you paid $8.50 for these cards... cards are definitely in mint condition... i know how to grade cards (that's what i do for work)... shipping is the way it is b/c sometimes i have lots that contain hundreds of cards and sometimes i have to eat shipping costs... also.. not only the $1.17... i have to pay for the envelope, plastic sleeve, mailing label, and my time... that's why it's shipping and handling... if you want $2 back for shipping i'll do that... other than that i don't see how you can call these cards not mint...? if they are not mint what condition are they in then...? get back to me thanks....
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...and followed almost immediately by his second response:

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whatever... just send the cards back... i'll refund your money when i get them from you... thanks... please don't purchase from me again unless you want exact details on every card & i'll price out the shipping cost for you right down to the penny... thanks... my shipping address is **removed for privacy**... i'll make not of this so i know to refund your money when i get the cards back
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I chalked it up to someone who didn't know better. I didn't believe his story about "that's what I do for work". I didn't think that anyone who actually worked in grading would even consider shoving 22 cards into a single card saver. I replied:

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I will have the cards shipped out to you tomorrow. I have hundreds of PSA 9 & PSA 10 cards in my collection. I know the difference between mint and not mint. I also know that as a rule, no more than 1 card should go in this type of holder. It was the poor packaging that likely damaged the cards. I apologize that this transaction was not successful.
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In order to be sure that I would get my money back, I filed a SNAD claim with Paypal. I added nothing more than what was noted in our exchanges on eBay and also provided him with the delivery confirmation number of the package that was shipped out to him today. He has since replied to the dispute with the following:

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your getting your refund when i get the cards.... listen though... i ship other cards to other people the same exact way and i've never had a complaint.... cards were definitely mint and not from poor packaging they became not mint... i work for one of the world's largest grading card companies in the world and know exactly what condtion cards are in and the cards you purchased definitely had mint cards mixed in... what did you want me to do....? individually sleeve each card? and if i did that i might of had to raise the shipping charge that you have already complained about... i just can't believe any of what you're saying but i will do the right thing and give you your money back when i get the cards... i just wanted to let you know what i thought of this whole situation.... thanks for nothing i guess....
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So now I have a few questions for everyone and then I'll give you the twist.

Am I being unreasonable here? Do you think it is acceptable to shove 22 cards into a card saver for shipping? Considering the cards were damaged by the poor packaging, was I wrong to complain about paying $4 for shipping and getting $1.17 of postage, a card saver and a bubble mailer (oh, and some tape)?

Help me out here. If I was out of line, I will be the first to admit it. Are my expectations too high?

Here's the clincher on all of this...I didn't see it until just a few moments ago when I saw his response to the paypal dispute. The seller is an employee of....

4sharpcorners

Tell me...should he have known better?

Discuss.

goose3 · February 6, 2009 12:33PM

I would not only want my 8.50 back but the cost of my postage and "handling" and bubble mailer to return his garbage.

otwcards · February 6, 2009 12:33PM

Hmmmm, which "one of the world's largest grading card companies" is located in New Hampshire? And why would someone working for a grading service be selling cards? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Sounds like a seller that is flexing his Internet "abilities" when not working the Drive-Thru at McDonald's. Hope he max's out on his exploitation of the Obama material he's selling!

gumbyfan · February 6, 2009 12:35PM

<< I would not only want my 8.50 back but the cost of my postage and "handling" and bubble mailer to return his garbage. >>

I shipped it back to him in the same bubble mailer he sent it to me in.

I did give him new tape over the card saver, though.

mtcards · February 6, 2009 12:36PM

My thoughts...

No, you are not being unreasonable for expecting mint cards if the auction stated such. Shoving 22 cards into one single sleeve is ridiculous at best. If these are all sellable lots, I would have packaged them into a snap case, where they would have been well protected.

The shipping, well, if the auction stated that the shipping was what you paid, then I would have to side with the seller on that one. I've said it before and some agree and some disagree, but sometimes the cost of doing business has to be recouped at some point as well, so if the shipping was stated in advance, I dont believe there is a reasonable complaint there.

Finally, due to his almost immediate response on his willingness to accept the cards back, I would have to say that he knew the cards were not mint when selling them. If he knew they were actually mint, he would have put up a better fight than what he did.

lawnmowerman · February 6, 2009 12:40PM

I don't care if I paid a penny per card, they better come packed right. That is pathetic.

Elemenopeo · February 6, 2009 12:41PM

I think your response to the whole situation was reasonable... and I imagine that the seller is just your garden variety jackass.

I also imagine that the seller's claim that he works "for one of the world's largest grading card companies in the world" or the other indication that he works for 4SC are both BS.

rube26105 · February 6, 2009 12:47PM

buying penny savers, noww thats gonna break him up

sounds like the idiot i bought 22 2003 topps t205 from , they came great, boxed,everything, 15.00 shipping, costed 5.00, not that i really care, i just slapped em with 22 1 star drs's , next time, shipping was 5.00

thier shipping prices sucked, but i think i broke em of that by smashing ther stars, so now they gotta get em back up to get powerseller discounts, there are more crokks and idiots on ebay now that there ever has been, its pretty pathetic anymore

i thought ebay was making em quit soaking people on shipping storm??????
i dont soak people, and i dont expect to be soaked when they pocket 10$ from the 15$ i got charged for shipping on 22 cards,

SidePocket · February 6, 2009 12:48PM

How can you even fit 22 cards in one card saver????

storm888 · February 6, 2009 12:51PM

BAD seller.

TERRIBLE biz-model; selling penny-items on EBAY is a recipe
for working hard, making buyers mad, and losing money.

...........

The $4.00 freight is marginally reasonable, BUT the packing/shipping
must be done safely and professionally.

WinPitcher · February 6, 2009 12:59PM

What a donkey.

Steve

gumbyfan · February 6, 2009 1:00PM

<< The $4.00 freight is marginally reasonable, BUT the packing/shipping
must be done safely and professionally. >>

I absolutely agree. I have no problem whatsoever paying $4 s&h on a lot of 22 cards. All I ask is that they are packaged properly and arrive in the condition they are described to be in.

<< I also imagine that the seller's claim that he works "for one of the world's largest grading card companies in the world" or the other indication that he works for 4SC are both BS. >>

He didn't say he worked at 4SC...I just happened to notice that his email address is @4sharpcorners.com...

Thanks to everyone for the comments. With the week I've had, I was beginning to wonder if I was just taking it out on this guy over nothing.

rube26105 · February 6, 2009 1:00PM

<How can you even fit 22 cards in one card saver>
ill let you know in a minute, i got plety of junk yo try it out on

ThaSneakster · February 6, 2009 1:01PM

Wow 22 cards in a card saver and it didn't break? I usually ship my cards in team bags and haven't had a problem yet.

rube26105 · February 6, 2009 1:04PM

you got me, i got 9 in, and on the 10th one it bent in half

i can see 2 cards in pennysaver- no problem, but 22, come on
that as dumb as the woman that sent my griffey rookies yesterday in the 5 foot square bubble mailer loose in penny savers beat to death

Elemenopeo · February 6, 2009 1:05PM

<< How can you even fit 22 cards in one card saver???? >>

Of course, I had to try this.... It wasn't easy, but it can be done. You really have to force 'em in there. The top and bottom cards especially get creamed.

WinPitcher · February 6, 2009 1:07PM

Enter his name in toolhaus and see what others have said about him.

I would do it here but it would not get past the PSA filters.

Steve

ThaSneakster · February 6, 2009 1:07PM

is that eddie murray getting squeezed?

gumbyfan · February 6, 2009 1:08PM

<< Enter his name in toolhaus and see what others have said about him.

I would do it here but it would not get past the PSA filters.

Steve >>

I noticed that when I went back and looked at his old feedback yesterday, Steve. My question is this: how bad must the other negative have been if it was removed by eBay??

rube26105 · February 6, 2009 1:21PM

wow

the way i send a bunch liike that is take one carddaver,put em on top of it , and then stick another one the top of the cards,tape em togeter, and put cardboard around em
$2.50
it dont take a brain surgeon to ship stuff out right, 22 in one carsaver is just stupid, did ya get one or two in the middle that was good

lawnmowerman · February 6, 2009 1:24PM

That picture is scary!!

I would have freaked out if that happened to me.

SidePocket · February 6, 2009 1:27PM

I always thought Card Saver II was Roman numerals, but now I see that its an 11. Still, he overstuffed.

BassPro77 · February 6, 2009 1:28PM

didn't know you can fit that many cards in a card saver. its hard enough putting one card in a saver.

what's the saying?

"NO SOUP FOR HIM"

grote15 · February 6, 2009 1:33PM

I think you handled it very well...I love how these clowns always have to make it sound like they're doing you a favor by accepting a return when it was clearly his fault...ask him who the 75 mini shaver, er, grader is over there, while you're at it, LOL...

BunchOBull · February 6, 2009 1:43PM

In the 4SC business model, ex-mint cards get mint and gem grades...no wonder his idea of "mint" is skewed.

metalmike · February 6, 2009 2:04PM

go get em

digicat · February 6, 2009 2:08PM

1) the seller is an idiot.

2) he says he works for a "grading company", and he works for 4sc? Fun.

otwcards · February 6, 2009 2:40PM

I guess that's part of the business model. One of the other "outlets," NESC, ships lots stuffed in CS1's, also. Most I received was 15 in a CS1. Lest it be said, those three orders were the last three I bought from them. At least they didn't advertise them as MINT. Ended up being TTM fodder.

brianwintersfan · February 6, 2009 2:48PM

I for one think Craig is being totally unreasonable!

Boopotts · February 6, 2009 2:51PM

If it's one of 4SC's ID's you can find out very quickly, because they'll block you from bidding on any of their accounts if you complain about the quality from any one of them. I found this out with a 'mint' lot of '78T football.

lawnmowerman · February 6, 2009 2:52PM

<< I for one think Craig is being totally unreasonable!