Legal Question / Coin Collection

Wil2008 · January 30, 2009 4:08AM

Hi.

Any collectors know if you can put your collection in a living trust? If so, can you reccommend sites to look at.

Any Legal Eagles out there??

Thanks

Wil

Raybob15239 · January 30, 2009 4:16AM

Why do you want to put it in a living trust? What are your goals? If it is to avoid federal or state estate (death) taxes, a living trust will not work. In order to avoid estate taxes, the asset must be completely out of your dominion and control. A living trust is usually a revocable trust that you can get your assets out of when you want. PM me if you want to discuss further. Yes, I am a Lawyer.

BillJones · January 30, 2009 4:23AM

I've done it here in Florida because I've been advised by my attorney that it will help with probate problems here. There are horror stories of families going for years down here without being unable to settle an estate. The problems vary from county to county.

I'm not doing a thing to save money from estate tax. I have that for my mom, and she had to give the rights to my dad's trust (except for the income) to make that work. I don’t have any direct heirs, and whatever the nieces and nephews get after taxes is what they will get. I'm not giving up control to leave more to them.

Besides none of them care about coins, so my collection does not mean a thing to them.

ElKevvo · January 30, 2009 4:25AM

Yes I believe you can and I base that on the fact my mom's living trust includes non monetary assets like furniture and things like that. That being said laws vary state by state more or less (there is a group of states for which they are common) so you should check with a legal professional regarding the laws in your state of residence.

K

Longacre · January 30, 2009 4:32AM

I'm not a T&E lawyer, so I can't help with your question.

Now if you were a corporation and wanted to reduce your US federal income tax, as well as your taxes in jurisdictions around the world, Longacre would be the guy you call: 1-800-Longacre.

Raybob15239 · January 30, 2009 5:04AM

One other note: If you transfer assets to an irrevocable trust for the purpose of getting assets of of your estate so that they are not subject to estate taxes, you are, in essence, making a gift and the transfer is subject to federal gift tax. You can, however, use your Unified Credit to apply against the gift tax, but if you do, then you don't have that much of your credit left to apply against estate taxes should other assets still remain in your estate. One option is, if you have time, make transfers of $12,000 per year to take advantage of the annual exclusion. Another option is to make a gift to your spouse (exempt from gift tax) and she transfers it to the trust along with you giving you $24k/year in exclusions. A third option is to make a gift to your spouse, and use both her and your unified credit against the gift tax (not always advisable).

Its not as simple as some of the hucksters make it sound to avoid estate taxes.

EDITED TO ADD:

Also, keep in mind that the Bush Estate Tax Cuts expire soon and the exemption goes all the way back down to just $600,000! With democrats controlling the house, senate and the Whitehouse, don't expect an extension. (Not intended as a political comment, just an observation)

OregonCityGold · January 30, 2009 5:08AM

No, you can't put your coins or any assets in a trust.

You can, however, transfer legal title of your coins to a trustee, who would hold and manage your coins in trust for the benefit of others in accordance with your intent.

ElKevvo · January 30, 2009 5:11AM

You can, however, transfer legal title of your coins to a trustee, who would hold and manage your coins in trust for the benefit of others in accordance with your intent.

And you can be the trustee...

K

TahoeDale · January 30, 2009 5:16AM

I just completed all the work necessary to form a trust for all my assets.

PM me for any help.

Raybob15239 · January 30, 2009 5:16AM

And you can be the trustee...

You can't be trustee if you want to avoid estate taxes. If you are the trustee, then the coins are still in your estate for estate tax purposes as you still have dominion and control over them!

Longacre · January 30, 2009 5:21AM

I was talking with a friend of mine who went to a T&E lawyer. He did not hire the lawyer because the lawyer kept saying, "if you ever die...", as if it were not a certainty at some point in the future.

BAJJERFAN · January 30, 2009 5:27AM

Why can't you just give them away with no tax consequences to either yourself or the recipient? If you were to stand on a street corner and hand out free samples, then why can't you just give them to a family member.

OregonCityGold · January 30, 2009 5:31AM

Also, keep in mind that the Bush Estate Tax Cuts expire soon and the exemption goes all the way back down to just $600,000! With democrats controlling the house, senate and the Whitehouse, don't expect an extension. (Not intended as a political comment, just an observation)

I don't practice trusts and estates law, but I thought the applicable exclusion amount was going to be $1,000,000 in 2011 (which I guess is soon), not $600,000, if the current law is allowed to sunset. What is the $600,000 number?

unknowncomic · January 30, 2009 5:35AM

Send them to me along with a list of who you want to get what and I'll take care of them till you pass on.
See how easy that is ?

JupitarCoins · January 30, 2009 5:46AM

Ask board member Sanction, he may be able to help you.

Longacre · January 30, 2009 5:52AM

I thought the estate tax drops to zero in 2010. Therefore, if you are ever to die, it is best to do it in 2010 for estate tax planning purposes.

BillJones · January 30, 2009 5:52AM

<< <i>Also, keep in mind that the Bush Estate Tax Cuts expire soon and the exemption goes all the way back down to just $600,000! With democrats controlling the house, senate and the Whitehouse, don't expect an extension. (Not intended as a political comment, just an observation)

I don't practice trusts and estates law, but I thought the applicable exclusion amount was going to be $1,000,000 in 2011 (which I guess is soon), not $600,000, if the current law is allowed to sunset. What is the $600,000 number? >>

I think the old exemption was a million and it will go back to million if nothing is done.

My lawyer thinks that the exemption might go to 3.5 million. Of course he is basing that on the fact that many small business are capitalized at less than. My Massachusetts estate advisor had also said that Ted Kennedy wants the exemption higher because of his medical problems.

At any rate if Obama and the Democrats do drive up the death tax, they will be looking to prolong the recession or depression, whatever you want to call it. The major job creators in recent years have been small businesses, and if you pound them with taxes, jobs in the private sector are only be harder to find for a lot people.

It will be interesting to see how greedy, mean spirited or short sighted Obama and the Democrats are going to be. They hate small business and moderately wealthy people, but cut breaks for super fat cats because they bank roll Democrat campaigns.

Such is the state of our democracy.

lathmach · January 30, 2009 6:25AM

<< <i>I'm not a T&E lawyer, so I can't help with your question.

Now if you were a corporation and wanted to reduce your US federal income tax, as well as your taxes in jurisdictions around the world, Longacre would be the guy you call: 1-800-Longacre. >>

I dialed that number and got a telephone sex chat line for $5 a minute charged to my Visa.

Just kidding.

Ray

Res · January 30, 2009 6:29AM

I'm taking it all with me.

wikyva · January 30, 2009 6:52AM

<< <i>I'm not a T&E lawyer, so I can't help with your question.

Now if you were a corporation and wanted to reduce your US federal income tax, as well as your taxes in jurisdictions around the world, Longacre would be the guy you call: 1-800-Longacre. >>

I am also a lawyer but not a T&E lawyer.

However, if you are thinking about a divorce I could help your wife get her fair share of that very expensive coin collection!

Swampboy · January 30, 2009 7:05AM

Pardon me for laughing but I just can't get the image out of my mind of Longacre tossing spit balls on the oak paneled conference room walls.

Walmann · January 30, 2009 7:17AM

Trust are great for keeping, upon your demise , property out of probate as well out of public display.

Makes things easier and less expensive for your heirs. Have dealt with this twice with the passing of my grandmother and then dad, both had everything placed in trust, was no probate at all.

shorecoll · January 30, 2009 9:21AM

BillJones, if you are worried about those nieces and nephews not appreciating your coin collection, you should consider adopting me!

Legal Question / Coin Collection

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