Did I get the same card I won on Ebay?

RonBurgundy · January 25, 2009 9:10AM

I suppose I did, but the Ebay scan hid the PD pretty well. Colors aren't nearly as bright either.

Ebay listing:

57 Mantle Berra

My scan:

lawnmowerman · January 25, 2009 9:12AM

Same card but the sellers scan had the contrast jacked up to make it look more vibrant.

Nice card though.

Stingray · January 25, 2009 9:17AM

That does kind of stink. The snow is not really visable on the auction.

Ladder7 · January 25, 2009 9:18AM

trick photography

WinPitcher · January 25, 2009 9:20AM

I'd send that puppy back and neg that piece of crap seller.

I'm sure he is going to say no returns on graded cards speel.

I'd file a SNAD too.

The best defense is an offense IMO.

Steve

Rogermnj · January 25, 2009 9:20AM

I would ask to return the card.

otwcards · January 25, 2009 9:24AM

Definitely the result of the scanner settings being manipulated to offset the PD.

I had a similar situation when I won a '58 T Jim Brown. The PD in the black was either eliminated by adjusting the settings or the seller Photoshopped the black to remove the white specs and PD. I wasn't too thrilled as I paid top dollar (between PSA 7 and PSA 8 money) for a raw card. The seller finally relented and gave a refund after some PayPal intervention. A little harder to do with a TPG card than a raw card, I guess.

Good luck.

WinPitcher · January 25, 2009 9:32AM

That fits into the SNAD scenario IMO. If it doesn't what does?

Save his scan before he eliminates it.

Go on the offensive, do not even give this guy the benefit of the doubt.

Steve

killingdream · January 25, 2009 9:32AM

I would definitely try to return it and then slam the guy. He pulled a total scam. I totally avoid any auction that has a high contrast picture like that. Such a picture almost always covers up something.

swartz1 · January 25, 2009 9:32AM

looks like his perfect feedback is about to take a hit...I hope things work out for you...

leftofdial · January 25, 2009 9:38AM

Yeah, it looks like the whole scan was darkened or something. I thought you got a card that looks nowhere as nice as the scan would indicate. Especially for a card of that $$$ caliber. I would save the scans too but try and be peaceful about it- the seller will want to maintain his 100% you could rightfully damage that with your input.
Crap like this makes a much awaited purchase really upsetting, I hope you get your money refunded and an apology too

Carew29 · January 25, 2009 9:39AM

Wow... first i would ask for a refund stating that he did not identify this "obvious"flaw with the card. If no refund, that you would follow up with further action paypal/ebay ect.... Worthy of first neg on this guy. This guy new what he did.

HeritageAddict · January 25, 2009 9:39AM

I would try to return it as well, the seller did quite a bit of photoshopping on his scan.

Barfvader · January 25, 2009 9:41AM

Image from auction.

Your image with some quick tweaking in Photoshop.

Odds are someone was playing around with the image to make it look better.

killingdream · January 25, 2009 9:42AM

I don't care if this guy gives a full refund and is totally cooperative. He deserves to be called out for the scam artist that he is. Letting guys like this get away with their scam just because they give a refund just isn't right.

Blackie · January 25, 2009 9:47AM

There is a difference. I would let him know my displeasure for sure!!! Get him on a neutral feedback...

RonBurgundy · January 25, 2009 9:48AM

Thanks for the support, guys. I will definitely contact him and press for a quick refund. As you can imagine I was pretty disappointed when I opened the package today. It's sad that sellers have to resort to stuff like this.

Ron

VitoCo1972 · January 25, 2009 9:50AM

I would file a SNAD but first thing tomorrow send it in on 10 Day review service. If it bumps to 8.5 keep it and resell while dropping the SNAD. If it doesn't bump - return for full refund and neg...yeah, probably not the most ethical, but if this guy is going to screw with you like that, the least you can do is take a shot at profiting from it.

storm888 · January 25, 2009 9:53AM

"Beautiful card with OUTSTANDING registration and focus, strong corners, near perfect centering."

The seller has sparkly FB, and may give a cheerful refund to
avoid a potential problem.

Because the seller was silent on "Return Policy" in the listing,
PayPal would likely quickly grant a SNAD claim based on an "altered
image" allegation.

Ditto MC/VISA.

/////////////

The card is still NOT junk, though.

calaban7 · January 25, 2009 9:53AM

<< I would file a SNAD but first thing tomorrow send it in on 10 Day review service. If it bumps to 8.5 keep it and resell while dropping the SNAD. If it doesn't bump - return for full refund and neg...yeah, probably not the most ethical, but if this guy is going to screw with you like that, the least you can do is take a shot at profiting from it. >>

Actually a nice idea , but there is NO way that's an 8.5-- corners ?---IMO---Sonny

PoppaJ · January 25, 2009 9:59AM

Ron,

I'd file an SNAD asap and then escalate this baby quickly!

Once the seller's PayPal account is frozen, I'm sure he'll be more than willing to work something out.

A friend of mine had the same thing happen to him by a different seller. He settled for a partial refund only because he really like the card.

But, it's the principle in this matter that counts.

I agree that you should copy his pic right away if you haven't already. PayPal claim investigators surely deal with this kind of crap a lot.

Good luck and hope everything works out your way!

PoppaJ

StanTheManMusial · January 25, 2009 10:03AM

<< I would file a SNAD but first thing tomorrow send it in on 10 Day review service. If it bumps to 8.5 keep it and resell while dropping the SNAD. If it doesn't bump - return for full refund and neg...yeah, probably not the most ethical, but if this guy is going to screw with you like that, the least you can do is take a shot at profiting from it. >>

Ahh... nevermind. Not worth it..

RonBurgundy · January 25, 2009 10:04AM

Quick question - how do I copy the scan?

storm888 · January 25, 2009 10:06AM

<< Quick question - how do I copy the scan? >>

////

Right Click and save picture.

...........

You might also want to do a print screen and save it to a file.

WinPitcher · January 25, 2009 10:07AM

Ron

Jeff barfvader already has. PM him for details.

I think he can save it for you.

Steve

otwcards · January 25, 2009 10:08AM

I have a copy on my HD if you need it, too.

Barfvader · January 25, 2009 10:10AM

I'll leave the image in my Photobucket and also keep a copy on my hard drive.

WinPitcher · January 25, 2009 10:13AM

There ya go Ron, if needed they can email it to you.

Now get on that guys case and return that overpriced pos card.

Steve

RonBurgundy · January 25, 2009 10:27AM

Cool, thanks guys! Email going out to seller tonight. Absent a superfast reponse, SNAD will be filed quickly thereafter.

RB

Bosox1976 · January 25, 2009 10:39AM

Who needs a PITA when buying a high end card? That seller should know better.

Morgoth · January 25, 2009 10:49AM

Maybe they have learned their craft from Mastro?

SDavid · January 25, 2009 1:20PM

I've been running into that more and more, but that's the most blatant case I've seen.

I'd watch how he relists it before leaving fb. If he lists it with the same scan, instant neg. If he refunds your money with no hassle and relists it with an honest scan, I might give him a pass or just leave a neutral.

jfkheat · January 26, 2009 12:17AM

Almost all of the 57 Mantle/Berra cards I have seen have the same print defects. That doesn't excuse the fact that the seller modified the scan. Hopefully they will refund your money.
James

swartz1 · January 26, 2009 12:20AM

I'd watch how he relists it before leaving fb. If he lists it with the same scan, instant neg. If he refunds your money with no hassle and relists it with an honest scan, I might give him a pass or just leave a neutral. >>

I would still leave negative feedback(obviously once you resolve the $ issue)...sellers like this need to be outed...you are not helping the community if you do not let others know his selling strategy/tactics...

WinPitcher · January 26, 2009 12:27AM

What is not being mentioned is that Ron had to pay almost 25.00 in shipping
this POS back and forth.

15.00 to ship the item to him

around 10.00 more to get the guy his POS back.

I'd want some of that too.

Steve

bman90278 · January 26, 2009 12:48AM

I would say you got the same card, but he seller either made changes like the other said or he doesn't understand the settings or should have the scanner in the basic mode. Very nice cards btw

mmsportscards · January 26, 2009 12:53AM

Many of your wonderful auction houses are guilty of this same practice! You have no recourse with them.

EBAY again power to the buyer!!!!!!

intence · January 26, 2009 1:46AM

yea looks like he increased the saturation in photoshop.

larryallen73 · January 26, 2009 1:56AM

Same card for sure. Looks like you got good advice above. Best of luck!

SidePocket · January 26, 2009 1:58AM

That's criminal on a $1600 card. He won't be surprised when you dispute it.

jim70mustang · January 26, 2009 2:08AM

This happened to me a couple of weeks ago. I bought a PSA graded card that looked cleaner and brighter than any other card I had in the set only to find out when received the image had been doctored. I wanted the card anyway so I didn't complain. Maybe someone should start a thread here to compile a list of these people so if we see a really nice card we have a list of sellers that are doing this. JMHO

Jim

sayheykid54 · January 26, 2009 2:13AM

What a misleading scan. I would ask for a refund because the quality of the actual card and the enhanced scanned image don't match up.

TJMAC · January 26, 2009 3:37AM

I assume when I see a bright appearing vintage card it has been doctored. It is not a big deal to me since I primarily buy mid grade stuff PSA 5, 6 & 7, & know that most likely the card is not really that bright. I am not saying it is right, but I assume that is the case going in. Good luck resolving it.

StanTheManMusial · January 26, 2009 4:13AM

First off, anyone who has ever owned a PSA graded card should have enough common sense that when they see a PSA label with that much vibrant red color, you know the scan has been pumped up.

You CAN clearly see some snow on the card, even with the pumped up scan the seller posted in the auction. Granted, it's not as noticeable as the scan you provided, but there is obvious snow on the card from the seller's scan.

A PSA 8 was paid for, and that is exactly what the seller delivered. That exact card no less, so I don't know how Paypal will deal with that situation. Does it make it right to pump up the color? No, it sure does not.. But........ when you are paying big dollars for cards, some common sense has to kick in as well. Anyone that collects any vintage knows the color on the card was not correct in the scan, nor was the color of the PSA label. Both were clearly pumped up.

Why is PSA getting a pass on this one? Can't we agree that the card was graded wrong to begin with?

I'm not knocking anyone, just saying we have to use better detective skills when buying higher end cards. Graded or not.

EDIT: typo

scotgreb · January 26, 2009 4:22AM

Well said Stan . . . but the fact of the matter is that Ron did not buy the card in scan. He was mislead and bought a PSA 8 that he had never before seen -- no different than unknowingly buying / receiving an obviously altered raw card. - Scott

IchiroDeported · January 26, 2009 4:24AM

is PSA the one at fault here? should that have a PD qualifier? just curious.

storm888 · January 26, 2009 4:29AM

<< is PSA the one at fault here? should that have a PD qualifier? just curious. >>

//

NM-MT 8: Near Mint-Mint.

A PSA NM-MT 8 is a super high-end card that appears Mint 9 at first glance, but upon closer inspection, the card can exhibit the following: a very slight wax stain on reverse, slightest fraying at one or two corners, a minor printing imperfection, and/or slightly off-white borders. Centering must be approximately 65/35 to 70/30 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

storm888 · January 26, 2009 4:40AM

I am ALL for "no refunds/returns" on reputable-TPG items.

But, using an altered/doctored/enhanced scan to sell such items
is a clear waiver of refund/return disclaimers.

EVEN PayPal recognizes the difference between slight variations
in color due to differences in monitors as a non-SNAD. And, they
also recognize mini-FRAUDS when they are educated to them.

....

Some newbies may or may not have "common sense," but they
need to be able to rely on HONEST pictures. They should NOT
need to become "detectives" to buy cards from honest sellers.

The moral is likely that NOBODY should buy ANYTHING on EBAY
from ANYBODY that they do not know.

PSASAP · January 26, 2009 5:45AM

That's a bit extreme, wouldn't you say? I buy things all the time from people I don't know on ebay. If I had to restrict my buying to only sellers that I'd done business with before, I'd buy two cards a year.

storm888 · January 26, 2009 5:50AM

<< That's a bit extreme, wouldn't you say? I buy things all the time from people I don't know on ebay. If I had to restrict my buying to only sellers that I'd done business with before, I'd buy two cards a year. >>

////////////

Yup.

Should have written:

"The moral is likely that NOBODY should buy ANYTHING expensive on EBAY
from ANYBODY that they do not know."

Cheap stuff, obviously, is a different matter. Each person can decide for
themselves what "cheap" means.

Morgoth · January 26, 2009 5:52AM

One needs to also remember that due to the vibrance of the scan I am sure it brought more bids than it would of recieved with an accurate scan. I think most people here can tell when scans have minor tweaks but they did a masterful job in specifically hiding that print. I would even say they may have touched it up some as well just playing with the settings. I guess I don't expect the scans to be doctored to this extent and it is fraudulent to do so.

Did I get the same card I won on Ebay?

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