Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
I think some may be more aggressive with offers to buy, but I don't think that's the same as using economic apocalypse to scare the hell out of people into dumping all of their coins. The former is just good marketing; the latter is arguably predatory.
No, I have not seen this. It would be very hard to target the scaring only to sellers without scaring the potential buyers. Dealers with a track record know how to make money in good markets and bad markets. I have even heard some old timers say they would like to see more difficult times in the coin market to flush out some of the posers and wannabes.
Edit: It has nothing to do with ethics--just not good business to scare away your customers.
I doubt most dealers are really out there to scheme like that. Those that do don't last very long, since most seasoned collectors aren't stupid. I would personally rather deal with someone who understands what my coins are worth and give me, what I consider, a reasonable price. Anyone who pressures me into selling my coins, through scare tactics or through other means looses my business. That said I am sure there are a certain quantity of dealers that do what you say, but not the majority.
An unsolicited opinion (and worth every cent, too!):
Some collectors will think they are being exploited when trying to sell their recently-acquired items (particularly imagined “condition rarities”). Real exploitation will take place with unknowledgeable family members and heirs who bring their items to unscrupulous varmints. They will be given a tale of market collapse, buying at a loss and other nonsense, then induced to sell at far below fair value.
A collector with at least one-half of his/her mental facilities intact, should have no difficulty with any coin dealer – reputable or not.
<< <i>A better and more accurate question would be imho: Do you feel collectors exploit the economic conditions to scare dealers out of their coins? >>
Yes I've been making some purchases at half the list price.
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
<< <i>You guys care to *rethink* this question now? >>
Given that many dealers are starting to discount the bulk of their inventory to move it and to reduce their inventory, I don't see why they want to be inundated with offers to sell a lot average stuff they currently have to heavily discount to move. Plus, as was mentioned, you can't scare people into selling without scaring away buyers, either, who would be (like housing and stocks) be unwilling to catch a falling knife.
"You know, I heard the Government is going to demonetize these old coins, and they may end up being worthless. But, being the swell guy that I am, I can give you face value for them now."
I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector. Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
I don't really understand this post, but since ambro51 wrote it, then revived it, he must have strong feelings about it and/or has a specific situation in mind. Right?
<< <i>Just a feeling that this market is being "manipulated".
I don't know the details...but my feelings are usually correct. >>
No, not by coin dealers. If you want to blame anyone for the current economic conditions, we only have ourselves to blame for putting legislators on Capitol Hill for over 20 years who are intent on only feathering their own nests and squandering the wealth of the people of this nation to special interest groups. If they really had the best interests of their constituents they'd put a few teeth in the SEC and hang a few people...
I'm just sitting here laughing to myself thinking how many dealers you think it would take acting together in concert to do this exploiting? Heck, it's hard enuf to get a group to agree on where to go to lunch let alone something as diabolical as that
<< <i>Just a feeling that this market is being "manipulated".
I don't know the details...but my feelings are usually correct. >>
Which market ?
The guys at the monthly coin show had a slow show this past weekend, but I saw a few of the "players" who make up the show exchanging a lot of collectibles. I purchased a few good coins and traffic was slow to moderate. The president of the Omaha Coin Club and his son showed up, too. From what I've seen, there is no manipulation. It's a hobby. People come to look at, to cherrypick, and to buy /sell coins & currency/collectibles. Every purchase is a negotiated price. Period. This is not manipulation, it's tug'o'war.
I could not imagine participating on a lawyer message board where the non-lawyer participants continually bashed the lawyers. Similarly, I think that the dealers on these boards get tired quickly of the negative posts. It's nothing against any particular poster here, but I can understand how these rants get old quick from the dealers' perspective.
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>I could not imagine participating on a lawyer message board where the non-lawyer participants continually bashed the lawyers. Similarly, I think that the dealers on these boards get tired quickly of the negative posts. It's nothing against any particular poster here, but I can understand how these rants get old quick from the dealers' perspective. >>
And while the great majority can hold their own, it's a shame more of them don't post here. We lose a lot of insight because of that. Maybe they should take a page out of the true masters of manuipulation's playbook and try this:
I am not aware of this happening in a widespread sense by dealers but it is probably a tactic that probably isn't unheard of.
From my personal experience this type of fear mongering is commonly used by realtors to "scare" people into selling their homes especially during the bull market a few years ago. Older couples and families with young children being particularly vulnerable, a broker or realtor would make a big fuss about how the neighborhood was "becoming a breeding ground for gangs" or how the area was in the crosshairs of an impending natural disaster and how it was beneficial for the homeowners to liquidate their homes at far below market values. Unfortunately these scare tactics worked far too well in many instances.
Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>Well then WHY are most of the NEGATIVE threads on this board started by Dealers??
Cleverly worded question/answers that do little but instill a sense of fear in the collector.
Guess what. I wrapped my coins up and locked them in the safe deposit box. Come see me in 15 to 20 years and maybe I'll sell a few.
I suggest any collectors who plan to hold long term to IGNORE these annoying Dealer initiated negative threads, look the other way, and hold tight.
All this will pass and we will all be OK in a while. Sell now, for the 50% that these guys want to give you...and you will long regret it. >>
In all honesty, I have no idea where you are coming from. I have observed that dealer bashing is a popular sport on these forums, sometimes fairly, most of the time unfairly.
Most of the threads about coin prices possibly going down are from a small circle of collectors, some of which have been starting the same kind of threads for many years now. The dealers often chime in on the price threads with what I call "happy talk" about how coins will continue to go up in price or how prices have already bottomed and how folks should continue to buy. This is the opposite of trying to scare people out of their coins.
Most dealers focus on selling their coins. Most have their steady suppliers and sources. They don't need to go after random folks on the forum using scare tactics. Those few collectors dumb enough to fall for such tactics, probably don't have quality coins anyway and would be poor sources for inventory. I honestly can't recall any dealer using scare tactics of the sort you are suggesting on this forum. I have seen some dealers say their coins will hold their value better than coins being sold by other sources, but I wouldn't call that a scare tactic.
If you can link and/or quote some specific posts by known dealers using scare tactics, it would clear things up. Otherwise, all I see is unsubstantiated rumors about manipulation.
<< <i>Well then WHY are most of the NEGATIVE threads on this board started by Dealers??
Cleverly worded question/answers that do little but instill a sense of fear in the collector.
Guess what. I wrapped my coins up and locked them in the safe deposit box. Come see me in 15 to 20 years and maybe I'll sell a few.
I suggest any collectors who plan to hold long term to IGNORE these annoying Dealer initiated negative threads, look the other way, and hold tight.
All this will pass and we will all be OK in a while. Sell now, for the 50% that these guys want to give you...and you will long regret it.
>>
Excellent post and I am sure there ARE some dealers out there that match this. Of course many also DON'T subscribe to this but it is a great post to "keep your eyes/ears open."
I find just the opposite. Some of the best deals I was ever offered by dealers were immediately after 9-11. I suspect a lot of dealers today would be more likely to consider a fair offer instead of holding on to a coin in anticipation of seeing an upward trend.
Most of the threads about coin prices possibly going down are from a small circle of collectors, some of which have been starting the same kind of threads for many years now. The dealers often chime in on the price threads with what I call "happy talk" about how coins will continue to go up in price or how prices have already bottomed and how folks should continue to buy. This is the opposite of trying to scare people out of their coins.
Yeah, maybe they are trying to dupe collectors into buying coins. Bad dealers, bad.
It still goes back to the point I made when the thread was created in the fall. How can you scare collectors enough to sell them your coins without scaring them away from buying them? In order for them to make a living, they have to be able to sell the darn things.
Excellent post and I am sure there ARE some dealers out there that match this.
Comments
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>Most dealers are capable of anything, being human. >>
Are you sure about the human part?
Camelot
Edit: It has nothing to do with ethics--just not good business to scare away your customers.
I really don't think full time coin dealers make good economists.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>You guys care to *rethink* this question now? >>
It would be very hard to target the scaring only to sellers without scaring the potential buyers.
Who thinks of this stuff???
Gardnerville, NV
=========================
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Some collectors will think they are being exploited when trying to sell their recently-acquired items (particularly imagined “condition rarities”). Real exploitation will take place with unknowledgeable family members and heirs who bring their items to unscrupulous varmints. They will be given a tale of market collapse, buying at a loss and other nonsense, then induced to sell at far below fair value.
A collector with at least one-half of his/her mental facilities intact, should have no difficulty with any coin dealer – reputable or not.
<< <i>You guys care to *rethink* this question now? >>
I did and I think the answer is the same as it was four months ago...no.
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
<< <i>A better and more accurate question would be imho: Do you feel collectors exploit the economic conditions to scare dealers out of their coins? >>
Yes I've been making some purchases at half the list price.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
<< <i>You guys care to *rethink* this question now? >>
Given that many dealers are starting to discount the bulk of their inventory to move it and to reduce their inventory, I don't see why they want to be inundated with offers to sell a lot average stuff they currently have to heavily discount to move. Plus, as was mentioned, you can't scare people into selling without scaring away buyers, either, who would be (like housing and stocks) be unwilling to catch a falling knife.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I don't know the details...but my feelings are usually correct.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Just a feeling that this market is being "manipulated".
I don't know the details...but my feelings are usually correct. >>
You must be extremely wealthy from acting on your inklings in the past.
I wish I were prescient, too.
<< <i>Just a feeling that this market is being "manipulated".
I don't know the details...but my feelings are usually correct. >>
No, not by coin dealers. If you want to blame anyone for the current economic conditions, we only have ourselves to blame for putting legislators on Capitol Hill for over 20 years who are intent on only feathering their own nests and squandering the wealth of the people of this nation to special interest groups. If they really had the best interests of their constituents they'd put a few teeth in the SEC and hang a few people...
john
<< <i>Just a feeling that this market is being "manipulated".
I don't know the details...but my feelings are usually correct. >>
Which market ?
The guys at the monthly coin show had a slow show this past weekend, but I saw a few of the "players" who make up the show exchanging a lot of collectibles. I purchased a few good coins and traffic was slow to moderate. The president of the Omaha Coin Club and his son showed up, too.
From what I've seen, there is no manipulation. It's a hobby. People come to look at, to cherrypick, and to buy /sell coins & currency/collectibles.
Every purchase is a negotiated price. Period.
This is not manipulation, it's tug'o'war.
<< <i>Just a feeling that this market is being "manipulated".
I don't know the details...but my feelings are usually correct. >>
I still don't get it, but that's OK.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>I could not imagine participating on a lawyer message board where the non-lawyer participants continually bashed the lawyers. Similarly, I think that the dealers on these boards get tired quickly of the negative posts. It's nothing against any particular poster here, but I can understand how these rants get old quick from the dealers' perspective. >>
And while the great majority can hold their own, it's a shame more of them don't post here. We lose a lot of insight because of that. Maybe they should take a page out of the true masters of manuipulation's playbook and try this:
john
Cleverly worded question/answers that do little but instill a sense of fear in the collector.
Guess what. I wrapped my coins up and locked them in the safe deposit box. Come see me in 15 to 20 years and maybe I'll sell a few.
I suggest any collectors who plan to hold long term to IGNORE these annoying Dealer initiated negative threads, look the other way, and hold tight.
All this will pass and we will all be OK in a while. Sell now, for the 50% that these guys want to give you...and you will long regret it.
From my personal experience this type of fear mongering is commonly used by realtors to "scare" people into selling their homes especially during the bull market a few years ago. Older couples and families with young children being particularly vulnerable, a broker or realtor would make a big fuss about how the neighborhood was "becoming a breeding ground for gangs" or how the area was in the crosshairs of an impending natural disaster and how it was beneficial for the homeowners to liquidate their homes at far below market values. Unfortunately these scare tactics worked far too well in many instances.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>Well then WHY are most of the NEGATIVE threads on this board started by Dealers??
Cleverly worded question/answers that do little but instill a sense of fear in the collector.
Guess what. I wrapped my coins up and locked them in the safe deposit box. Come see me in 15 to 20 years and maybe I'll sell a few.
I suggest any collectors who plan to hold long term to IGNORE these annoying Dealer initiated negative threads, look the other way, and hold tight.
All this will pass and we will all be OK in a while. Sell now, for the 50% that these guys want to give you...and you will long regret it.
>>
In all honesty, I have no idea where you are coming from. I have observed that dealer bashing is a popular sport on these forums, sometimes fairly, most of the time unfairly.
Most of the threads about coin prices possibly going down are from a small circle of collectors, some of which have been starting the same kind of threads for many years now. The dealers often chime in on the price threads with what I call "happy talk" about how coins will continue to go up in price or how prices have already bottomed and how folks should continue to buy. This is the opposite of trying to scare people out of their coins.
Most dealers focus on selling their coins. Most have their steady suppliers and sources. They don't need to go after random folks on the forum using scare tactics. Those few collectors dumb enough to fall for such tactics, probably don't have quality coins anyway and would be poor sources for inventory. I honestly can't recall any dealer using scare tactics of the sort you are suggesting on this forum. I have seen some dealers say their coins will hold their value better than coins being sold by other sources, but I wouldn't call that a scare tactic.
If you can link and/or quote some specific posts by known dealers using scare tactics, it would clear things up. Otherwise, all I see is unsubstantiated rumors about manipulation.
<< <i>Well then WHY are most of the NEGATIVE threads on this board started by Dealers??
Cleverly worded question/answers that do little but instill a sense of fear in the collector.
Guess what. I wrapped my coins up and locked them in the safe deposit box. Come see me in 15 to 20 years and maybe I'll sell a few.
I suggest any collectors who plan to hold long term to IGNORE these annoying Dealer initiated negative threads, look the other way, and hold tight.
All this will pass and we will all be OK in a while. Sell now, for the 50% that these guys want to give you...and you will long regret it.
>>
Excellent post and I am sure there ARE some dealers out there that match this. Of course many also DON'T subscribe to this but it is a great post to "keep your eyes/ears open."
Good post ambro.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
I've certainly done that a few times in recent months. Doesn't mean that it wasn't honest advice.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Yeah, maybe they are trying to dupe collectors into buying coins. Bad dealers, bad.
It still goes back to the point I made when the thread was created in the fall. How can you scare collectors enough to sell them your coins without scaring them away from buying them? In order for them to make a living, they have to be able to sell the darn things.
Excellent post and I am sure there ARE some dealers out there that match this.
Great! Let's see some examples.
<< <i>Well then WHY are most of the NEGATIVE threads on this board started by Dealers?? >>
Can you cite one single example?
It's called "one-on-one marketing". In other words, you scare one collector into selling and then you talk another one into buying.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>How can you scare collectors enough to sell them your coins without scaring them away from buying them?
It's called "one-on-one marketing". In other words, you scare one collector into selling and then you talk another one into buying. >>
I can imagine doing this in private, but it would seem like it would not work on a public forum. Then again, you seem to have it all worked out.