Do you feel Dealers exploit the economic conditions to 'scare' collectors out of their coins?

ambro51 · September 23, 2008 7:15AM

Or are they FAR too ethical to do that.

Longacre · September 23, 2008 7:21AM

Personally, I have not seen that.

originalisbest · September 23, 2008 7:21AM

Most dealers are capable of anything, being human.

Bear · September 23, 2008 7:25AM

<< Most dealers are capable of anything, being human. >>

Are you sure about the human part?

ziggy29 · September 23, 2008 7:27AM

I think some may be more aggressive with offers to buy, but I don't think that's the same as using economic apocalypse to scare the hell out of people into dumping all of their coins. The former is just good marketing; the latter is arguably predatory.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · September 23, 2008 7:30AM

No.

RYK · September 23, 2008 7:35AM

No, I have not seen this. It would be very hard to target the scaring only to sellers without scaring the potential buyers. Dealers with a track record know how to make money in good markets and bad markets. I have even heard some old timers say they would like to see more difficult times in the coin market to flush out some of the posers and wannabes.

Edit: It has nothing to do with ethics--just not good business to scare away your customers.

bidask · September 23, 2008 7:38AM

No.

I really don't think full time coin dealers make good economists.

ambro51 · January 20, 2009 5:15AM

You guys care to *rethink* this question now?

RYK · January 20, 2009 5:20AM

<< You guys care to *rethink* this question now? >>

It would be very hard to target the scaring only to sellers without scaring the potential buyers.

Silverstate · January 20, 2009 5:20AM

That is an angle I have never even thought of!

Who thinks of this stuff???

Billet7 · January 20, 2009 5:25AM

I doubt most dealers are really out there to scheme like that. Those that do don't last very long, since most seasoned collectors aren't stupid. I would personally rather deal with someone who understands what my coins are worth and give me, what I consider, a reasonable price. Anyone who pressures me into selling my coins, through scare tactics or through other means looses my business. That said I am sure there are a certain quantity of dealers that do what you say, but not the majority.

TwoSides2aCoin · January 20, 2009 5:37AM

Hide the coins !

RWB · January 20, 2009 5:47AM

An unsolicited opinion (and worth every cent, too!):

Some collectors will think they are being exploited when trying to sell their recently-acquired items (particularly imagined “condition rarities”). Real exploitation will take place with unknowledgeable family members and heirs who bring their items to unscrupulous varmints. They will be given a tale of market collapse, buying at a loss and other nonsense, then induced to sell at far below fair value.

A collector with at least one-half of his/her mental facilities intact, should have no difficulty with any coin dealer – reputable or not.

MidLifeCrisis · January 20, 2009 5:48AM

<< You guys care to *rethink* this question now? >>

I did and I think the answer is the same as it was four months ago...no.

BBN · January 20, 2009 6:02AM

Alot of gold dealers advertise using commercials that make it sound like we are on the verge of collapse.

pheh · January 20, 2009 6:23AM

Sellers are quite capable of doing that to themselves these days.

1Mike1 · January 20, 2009 6:27AM

<< A better and more accurate question would be imho: Do you feel collectors exploit the economic conditions to scare dealers out of their coins?

>>

Yes I've been making some purchases at half the list price.

ziggy29 · January 20, 2009 6:29AM

<< You guys care to *rethink* this question now? >>

Given that many dealers are starting to discount the bulk of their inventory to move it and to reduce their inventory, I don't see why they want to be inundated with offers to sell a lot average stuff they currently have to heavily discount to move. Plus, as was mentioned, you can't scare people into selling without scaring away buyers, either, who would be (like housing and stocks) be unwilling to catch a falling knife.

UtahCoin · January 20, 2009 6:32AM

"You know, I heard the Government is going to demonetize these old coins, and they may end up being worthless. But, being the swell guy that I am, I can give you face value for them now."

mrearlygold · January 20, 2009 6:36AM

Just work work working away!

Frankcoins · January 20, 2009 6:52AM

Never ran into such a case.

ColonialCoinUnion · January 20, 2009 7:07AM

I don't really understand this post, but since ambro51 wrote it, then revived it, he must have strong feelings about it and/or has a specific situation in mind. Right?

ambro51 · January 20, 2009 8:38AM

Just a feeling that this market is being "manipulated".

I don't know the details...but my feelings are usually correct.

bidask · January 20, 2009 8:47AM

No, economic conditions scare collectors out of their coins.

RYK · January 20, 2009 8:50AM

<< Just a feeling that this market is being "manipulated".

I don't know the details...but my feelings are usually correct. >>

You must be extremely wealthy from acting on your inklings in the past.

I wish I were prescient, too.

Coinsponge · January 20, 2009 8:52AM

Ethics is on a person by person basis but I would bet some would use the economy as a conveinient excuse for a low ball offer.

jhdfla · January 20, 2009 8:54AM

<< Just a feeling that this market is being "manipulated".

I don't know the details...but my feelings are usually correct. >>

No, not by coin dealers. If you want to blame anyone for the current economic conditions, we only have ourselves to blame for putting legislators on Capitol Hill for over 20 years who are intent on only feathering their own nests and squandering the wealth of the people of this nation to special interest groups. If they really had the best interests of their constituents they'd put a few teeth in the SEC and hang a few people...

john

jhdfla · January 20, 2009 8:56AM

I'm just sitting here laughing to myself thinking how many dealers you think it would take acting together in concert to do this exploiting? Heck, it's hard enuf to get a group to agree on where to go to lunch let alone something as diabolical as that

TwoSides2aCoin · January 20, 2009 9:07AM

RWB for mayor of this thread.

<< Just a feeling that this market is being "manipulated".

I don't know the details...but my feelings are usually correct. >>

Which market ?

The guys at the monthly coin show had a slow show this past weekend, but I saw a few of the "players" who make up the show exchanging a lot of collectibles. I purchased a few good coins and traffic was slow to moderate. The president of the Omaha Coin Club and his son showed up, too.
From what I've seen, there is no manipulation. It's a hobby. People come to look at, to cherrypick, and to buy /sell coins & currency/collectibles.
Every purchase is a negotiated price. Period.
This is not manipulation, it's tug'o'war.

ColonialCoinUnion · January 20, 2009 9:27AM

<< Just a feeling that this market is being "manipulated".

I don't know the details...but my feelings are usually correct. >>

I still don't get it, but that's OK.

Longacre · January 20, 2009 9:42AM

I could not imagine participating on a lawyer message board where the non-lawyer participants continually bashed the lawyers. Similarly, I think that the dealers on these boards get tired quickly of the negative posts. It's nothing against any particular poster here, but I can understand how these rants get old quick from the dealers' perspective.

jhdfla · January 20, 2009 9:51AM

<< I could not imagine participating on a lawyer message board where the non-lawyer participants continually bashed the lawyers. Similarly, I think that the dealers on these boards get tired quickly of the negative posts. It's nothing against any particular poster here, but I can understand how these rants get old quick from the dealers' perspective. >>

And while the great majority can hold their own, it's a shame more of them don't post here. We lose a lot of insight because of that. Maybe they should take a page out of the true masters of manuipulation's playbook and try this:

john

ambro51 · January 20, 2009 11:04AM

Well then WHY are most of the NEGATIVE threads on this board started by Dealers??

Cleverly worded question/answers that do little but instill a sense of fear in the collector.

Guess what. I wrapped my coins up and locked them in the safe deposit box. Come see me in 15 to 20 years and maybe I'll sell a few.

I suggest any collectors who plan to hold long term to IGNORE these annoying Dealer initiated negative threads, look the other way, and hold tight.

All this will pass and we will all be OK in a while. Sell now, for the 50% that these guys want to give you...and you will long regret it.

WTCG · January 20, 2009 3:21PM

I am not aware of this happening in a widespread sense by dealers but it is probably a tactic that probably isn't unheard of.

From my personal experience this type of fear mongering is commonly used by realtors to "scare" people into selling their homes especially during the bull market a few years ago. Older couples and families with young children being particularly vulnerable, a broker or realtor would make a big fuss about how the neighborhood was "becoming a breeding ground for gangs" or how the area was in the crosshairs of an impending natural disaster and how it was beneficial for the homeowners to liquidate their homes at far below market values. Unfortunately these scare tactics worked far too well in many instances.

RedTiger · January 20, 2009 3:57PM

<< Well then WHY are most of the NEGATIVE threads on this board started by Dealers??

Cleverly worded question/answers that do little but instill a sense of fear in the collector.

Guess what. I wrapped my coins up and locked them in the safe deposit box. Come see me in 15 to 20 years and maybe I'll sell a few.

I suggest any collectors who plan to hold long term to IGNORE these annoying Dealer initiated negative threads, look the other way, and hold tight.

All this will pass and we will all be OK in a while. Sell now, for the 50% that these guys want to give you...and you will long regret it.
>>

In all honesty, I have no idea where you are coming from. I have observed that dealer bashing is a popular sport on these forums, sometimes fairly, most of the time unfairly.

Most of the threads about coin prices possibly going down are from a small circle of collectors, some of which have been starting the same kind of threads for many years now. The dealers often chime in on the price threads with what I call "happy talk" about how coins will continue to go up in price or how prices have already bottomed and how folks should continue to buy. This is the opposite of trying to scare people out of their coins.

Most dealers focus on selling their coins. Most have their steady suppliers and sources. They don't need to go after random folks on the forum using scare tactics. Those few collectors dumb enough to fall for such tactics, probably don't have quality coins anyway and would be poor sources for inventory. I honestly can't recall any dealer using scare tactics of the sort you are suggesting on this forum. I have seen some dealers say their coins will hold their value better than coins being sold by other sources, but I wouldn't call that a scare tactic.

If you can link and/or quote some specific posts by known dealers using scare tactics, it would clear things up. Otherwise, all I see is unsubstantiated rumors about manipulation.

ChrisRx · January 20, 2009 4:08PM

<< Well then WHY are most of the NEGATIVE threads on this board started by Dealers??

Cleverly worded question/answers that do little but instill a sense of fear in the collector.

Guess what. I wrapped my coins up and locked them in the safe deposit box. Come see me in 15 to 20 years and maybe I'll sell a few.

I suggest any collectors who plan to hold long term to IGNORE these annoying Dealer initiated negative threads, look the other way, and hold tight.

All this will pass and we will all be OK in a while. Sell now, for the 50% that these guys want to give you...and you will long regret it.

>>

Excellent post and I am sure there ARE some dealers out there that match this. Of course many also DON'T subscribe to this but it is a great post to "keep your eyes/ears open."

Good post ambro.

pennyannie · January 20, 2009 4:42PM

I perfer dealer bashing to manipulation myself. I hope they all go broke. As far as lawyers go.......

northcoin · January 20, 2009 4:48PM

I find just the opposite. Some of the best deals I was ever offered by dealers were immediately after 9-11. I suspect a lot of dealers today would be more likely to consider a fair offer instead of holding on to a coin in anticipation of seeing an upward trend.

MrEureka · January 20, 2009 5:43PM

Do you feel Dealers exploit the economic conditions to 'scare' collectors out of their coins?

I've certainly done that a few times in recent months. Doesn't mean that it wasn't honest advice.

RYK · January 20, 2009 8:50PM

Most of the threads about coin prices possibly going down are from a small circle of collectors, some of which have been starting the same kind of threads for many years now. The dealers often chime in on the price threads with what I call "happy talk" about how coins will continue to go up in price or how prices have already bottomed and how folks should continue to buy. This is the opposite of trying to scare people out of their coins.

Yeah, maybe they are trying to dupe collectors into buying coins. Bad dealers, bad.

It still goes back to the point I made when the thread was created in the fall. How can you scare collectors enough to sell them your coins without scaring them away from buying them? In order for them to make a living, they have to be able to sell the darn things.

Excellent post and I am sure there ARE some dealers out there that match this.

Great! Let's see some examples.

ColonialCoinUnion · January 20, 2009 9:09PM

<< Well then WHY are most of the NEGATIVE threads on this board started by Dealers?? >>

Can you cite one single example?

MrEureka · January 20, 2009 9:09PM

How can you scare collectors enough to sell them your coins without scaring them away from buying them?

It's called "one-on-one marketing". In other words, you scare one collector into selling and then you talk another one into buying.

RYK · January 20, 2009 10:08PM

<< How can you scare collectors enough to sell them your coins without scaring them away from buying them?

It's called "one-on-one marketing". In other words, you scare one collector into selling and then you talk another one into buying. >>

I can imagine doing this in private, but it would seem like it would not work on a public forum. Then again, you seem to have it all worked out.

Do you feel Dealers exploit the economic conditions to 'scare' collectors out of their coins?

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