Confederate gold at the New Orleans Mint?
GritsMan
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I'm doing some research on activity at the New Orleans Mint during the Civil War. As I understand it, once the Mint fell into Confederate hands, they kept minting gold coins until the gold supply ran out BUT they used the same Union dies. In other words, there's no way to distinguish which gold coins were actually minted by the Confederacy and which ones were minted by the Union. My info comes from Douglas Winter's book GOLD COINS OF THE NEW ORLEANS MINT 1839-1909.
I also know that the Confederacy minted a few "test" half dollars with a Confederate reverse on them.
Here's my question: has anyone ever heard any rumors that the Confederacy actually minted gold coins with a Confederate reverse (or obverse, for that matter)?
If there are any experts out there, I'd love to hear any other information you might have on the subject.
Thank you in advance!
Sneed
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Louisiana succeeded from the Union just prior to the civil war and took over the mint, using the same dies as when the Union had the mint. After the war began, the Confederates took over the mint because of it's position on the Mississippi and because of the minting equipment. Later, the Union reclaimed the mint.
I believe that the late die state experts can clarify methods of identifying N.O. pre, during, and post civil war mintages as there shoud be good progression in the die ware. The mint certainly didn't get any new dies after La. succeeded from the union and this went on for a couple of years so I wouldn't be so quick to say that there was no way to tell which ones were minted in the Civil War and just after.
There is a good story here but I haven't had time to do a good search on the net.
Thanks for the great responses RYK and Mhammerman. Your expertise is very helpful. I find the Civil War to be a fascinating chapter in the history of the New Orleans mint, full of "what ifs" and intrigue. I plan to do further research myself over the next year and will post anything interesting I come up with.
Sneed
2009 marks the 100th anniversary of the closing of the New Orleans mint.
Is the occasion commemorative-coin-worthy??
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<< <i>The mint certainly didn't get any new dies after La. succeeded from the union and this went on for a couple of years so I wouldn't be so quick to say that there was no way to tell which ones were minted in the Civil War and just after.
>>
It was 1 year 3 months. Louisiana left the Union in Jan. 1861 and New Orleans was recaptured in April of 1862.
I vaguely recall reading somewhere that there wasn't much gold bullion on hand in New Orleans, that some of the mint employees were loyal to the Union and had sent a bunch of the bullion away before Louisiana seceeded. I may be confusing this with the other southern mints however, lots of stuff in old Neo's head this week
Very interesting topic !!!!
Edited to add : Found an article stating that the mint discontinued operations in late April 1861, due to lack of bullion. So it was only operational for @ 3 months. When Lousiana took over, there was about 1/2 million $$ in gold and silver bullion on hand.
<< <i>2009 marks the 100th anniversary of the closing of the New Orleans mint.
Is the occasion commemorative-coin-worthy?? >>
The Mint donates some of the proceeds from commem coins to specific non-profit organizations so there would have to be some organization that could benefit from the profits generated by such a coin.
Four Confederate half dollars were minted, but no gold coins with a Confederate design were minted (although at least one fantasy design exists, I believe).
In the November 2005 issue of The Gobrecht Journal, Randy Wiley published a lengthy article discussing the die marriages of the 1861-O halves and their emission sequence. As far as I know, no such study has been done for the 1861-O double eagles.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
I have a seated '61-O half but it isn't that good...oh, actually, it is good and that's good.
Coin ON!
<< <i>The only gold coin struck at the New Orleans Mint by the Confederacy is the 1861-O $20. I have never come across any information to suggest otherwise (and I actually have researched available archives from the New Orleans Mint).
Metal was used for other purposes during the war, so paper currency was printed by the CSA, and in quite an abundance. I digress.
The only other gold coins struck by the Confederacy were 887 1861-C half eagles (Union struck 5,992), and an unknown number of 1861-D gold dollars (Union struck 0).
There was a design prepared for a gold Confederate coin, but no dies were made or coins struck.
And an unknown number of 1861-D half eagles.
Is the occasion commemorative-coin-worthy??"
So far nope
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<< <i>"2009 marks the 100th anniversary of the closing of the New Orleans mint.
Is the occasion commemorative-coin-worthy??"
So far nope
I'm already working on it
<< <i>
<< <i>The only gold coin struck at the New Orleans Mint by the Confederacy is the 1861-O $20. I have never come across any information to suggest otherwise (and I actually have researched available archives from the New Orleans Mint).
I was under the understanding that there are two known OBV dies (more like a 1a and a 1b) for the 20$lib. Week date and re-engraved date, and the was a "general" consensus that since logic would dictate the re-engraved date came later that they would be considered minted by the south. And given the ratio 3 (week) to 1(re-engraved) it works to support this.
By the way I know it's not the first time you have shown that, but that is a hell of a coin RYK
FYI, the reason I started this thread is that I was working on a novel for teenagers--a mystery surrounding a stash of Confederate double eagles from New Orleans. The novel, not surprisingly called DOUBLE EAGLE, will be published this spring by Peachtree Publishers. I'll post another thread about it when it's available. The board is mentioned in the acknowledgements!
Sneed
And DC I look forward to seing your design for a commemorative. I was looking at your link to moonlight mint and it must have been a labor of love to bring that press back up to speed. And finding all those coin blanks and artificts inside must have only been the icing on the cake!!
I certainly hope not. Collectors complain about being asked to buy commemoratives for trivial or meaningless local “events.” Closing the New Orleans Mint sure seems to fit that description. How about Disney characters next or maybe baseball players not in the Hall of Fame, or…
<< <i> "2009 marks the 100th anniversary of the closing of the New Orleans mint. Is the occasion commemorative-coin-worthy??"
I certainly hope not. Collectors complain about being asked to buy commemoratives for trivial or meaningless local “events.” Closing the New Orleans Mint sure seems to fit that description. How about Disney characters next or maybe baseball players not in the Hall of Fame, or… >>
Alfred E. Neuman?
I was checking out the Dan Carr website this week and noticed the Confederate Double Eagle. I saw it being advertised by saying something like no Confederate Double Eagles were ever produced, but if they were, they'd look like this. It appears that the reverse being used on these pieces is the reverse of the Confederate Half Dollar.
I was reading an old article I have on Confederate coinage recently, "The Untold Story of Confederate Coins" by Ron and Elizabeth Howard which was written in 1990. While it's true that the Confederacy didn't produce any gold coinage of their own design, it appears that they did prepare designs for their own gold coinage (which are an entirely different than the design of the Confederate Half Dollar).
The article states the following regarding the design of the Confederate gold coins:
"... The principal figure, the Goddess of Liberty, seated, holds in her right hand a staff surmounted by the liberty cap; her left arm rests on a shield, and the left hand on the 'Constitution.' On the shield (there being no coat of arms yet adopted) is shown a portion of the flag of the Confederacy, unfurled; to the left of the figure will be observed sugar-cane growing, a bale of cotton, a sugar hogshead, and a bale of tobacco; to the right, cotton in its various stages of growth, as also tobacco. On the reverse side is an endless chain composed of fifteen links; South Carolina, having taken the lead, occupies the top link, and the other links represent, right and left, the other States in the order of their secession; the remaining blank links are an invitation to the border States to hasten to inscribe their names within the circle. The stars of the Confederate State are distinct; those of the border States are in the twilight, but visibile, soon, we hope, to stand out as boldly as their neighbors. In the centre is inscribed the monogram, composed of the letters C.S.A. Twenty dollars has been printed to represent the denomination of the coin. Of course, the design is adaptable to any denomination of coin."
The article says no patterns of this design are known to have survived the War and that the description is all that remains of the Confederate gold coinage. It would have been really neat to see a $20 gold coin made up with this design...
The article also mentions that the Confederate $5 gold coin would have been called the "cavalier," with the $10 being a "double cavalier" and the $20 being a "quadruple cavalier."
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Hey, this is fascinating--and the first time I've ever heard of this. Thanks so much for sharing it. Maybe someone will unearth that design someday. A lot of us would love to see it!
From Wikipedia:
From April 18 to April 28, Farragut bombarded and then fought his way past the forts in the Battle of Forts Jackson and St. Philip, managing to get thirteen ships up river on April 24. Historian John D. Winters in The Civil War in Louisiana (1963) noted that with few exceptions the Confederate fleet at New Orleans had "made a sorry showing. Self-destruction, lack of co-operation, cowardice of untrained officers, and the murderous fire of the Federal gunboats reduced the fleet to a demoralized shambles."
Despite the complete vulnerability of the city, the citizens along with military and civil authorities remained defiant. At 2:00 p.m. on 25 April, Admiral Farragut sent Captain Bailey, First Division Commander from the USS Cayuga, to accept the surrender of the city. Armed mobs within the city defied the Union officers and sailors sent to city hall. General Lovell refused to surrender the city, along with Mayor Monroe. William B. Mumford pulled down a Union flag raised over the former U.S. mint by sailors of the USS Pensacola and the mob destroyed it. Farragut did not destroy the city in response, but moved upriver to subdue fortifications north of the city. On April 29, Farragut and 250 marines from the USS Hartford removed the Louisiana State flag from the City Hall.