Please Explain "Generic" Gold...

OneCent · January 10, 2009 12:01PM

Stupid question, but what the heck.

When dealers/collectors speak of generic gold I am assuming that they mean gold coins that sell for bullion value. Is this right? Also, does generic gold reside in PCGS/NGC slabs or is it usually raw?

Mercury10c · January 10, 2009 12:06PM

You are pretty much correct, and it can be in or out of a slab.
Basically it is common-date gold coins that trade based upon the value of their bullion content.

COALPORTER · January 10, 2009 12:08PM

does generic gold reside in PCGS/NGC slabs ?

Shure, just look at the pop reports for low ms saints.
They have slabbed tens of thousands.- too many to ever be much more than bullion.

Greeniejr · January 10, 2009 12:08PM

The term generic means that it is a common coin that has been made into a commodity. These coins can be either slabbed or raw. For example a 1927 Saint can be considered generic because it sells for whatever the going rate is for a common of the type. Generic is used to refer to the coins that are not premium dates.

illini420 · January 10, 2009 12:09PM

<< You are pretty much correct, and it can be in or out of a slab.
Basically it is common-date gold coins that trade based upon the value of their bullion content. >>

I agree, common date gold, but it doesn't necessarily sell at spot prices, especially when slabbed. For example, the premiums on common $20 Liberty gold seems to be at least $200 over spot right now. Common $20 Saints are less of a premium, but they can't exactly be found at spot prices...

RYK · January 10, 2009 2:00PM

<< Stupid question, but what the heck.

When dealers/collectors speak of generic gold I am assuming that they mean gold coins that sell for bullion value. Is this right? Also, does generic gold reside in PCGS/NGC slabs or is it usually raw? >>

Not exactly.

These are definitely common date coins, but they can also be a higher grade. A raw AU/BU 1927 Saint is a generic gold coin, but so is a PCGS/CAC MS-66 1927 Saint, and it does not sell for anywhere near its bullion value.

robkool · January 10, 2009 2:29PM

A common date Lib, Indian, or Saint that sells close to melt value...

RYK · January 10, 2009 2:31PM

<< A common date Lib, Indian, or Saint that sells close to melt value... >>

Wrong!

robkool · January 10, 2009 2:34PM

Ooops...

OneCent · January 10, 2009 2:38PM

<< 

<< Stupid question, but what the heck.

When dealers/collectors speak of generic gold I am assuming that they mean gold coins that sell for bullion value. Is this right? Also, does generic gold reside in PCGS/NGC slabs or is it usually raw? >>

Not exactly.

These are definitely common date coins, but they can also be a higher grade. A raw AU/BU 1927 Saint is a generic gold coin, but so is a PCGS/CAC MS-66 1927 Saint, and it does not sell for anywhere near its bullion value. >>

Ok...So if I am understanding you correctly, Generic Gold does not necessarily = bullion value. It can equate to bullion value but it also can equate to simply a common date gold piece that, in high grade, can sell for multiples of melt. Generic Gold = Common Date Gold Piece.

RYK · January 10, 2009 2:40PM

<< 

<< 

<< Stupid question, but what the heck.

When dealers/collectors speak of generic gold I am assuming that they mean gold coins that sell for bullion value. Is this right? Also, does generic gold reside in PCGS/NGC slabs or is it usually raw? >>

Not exactly.

These are definitely common date coins, but they can also be a higher grade. A raw AU/BU 1927 Saint is a generic gold coin, but so is a PCGS/CAC MS-66 1927 Saint, and it does not sell for anywhere near its bullion value. >>

Ok...So if I am understanding you correctly, Generic Gold does not necessarily = bullion value. It can equate to bullion value but it also can equate to simply a common date gold piece that, in high grade, can sell for multiples of melt. Generic Gold = Common Date Gold Piece. >>

Correct.

gecko109 · January 10, 2009 2:42PM

RYK is one smart cookie, but im gonna go out on a limb and say HE is wrong! If I called 6 different coin shops Monday and asked if they had any "junk silver", they would know I meant 90% U.S. silver sold at or about bullion value. If I then asked "how about any generic gold", I think they would assume im talking about pre 1930's U.S. gold that has become disconnected from almost all numismatic premiums, much the same as "junk silver". Thats my take on this topic anyway.

RYK · January 10, 2009 2:49PM

<< RYK is one smart cookie, but im gonna go out on a limb and say HE is wrong! If I called 6 different coin shops Monday and asked if they had any "junk silver", they would know I meant 90% U.S. silver sold at or about bullion value. If I then asked "how about any generic gold", I think they would assume im talking about pre 1930's U.S. gold that has become disconnected from almost all numismatic premiums, much the same as "junk silver". Thats my take on this topic anyway. >>

Well, dude, your limb just broke under your weight. Call Heritage on Monday and ask them to define what "generic gold" is and report back to us.

Edit: Here is how "generic gold" is defined by National Gold Exchange.

Here is how generic gold is defined at Park Avenue Numismatics.

Here is how generic gold is defined at Gold Rarities Gallery.

And I can go on and on...

gecko109 · January 10, 2009 3:09PM

<< 

<< RYK is one smart cookie, but im gonna go out on a limb and say HE is wrong! If I called 6 different coin shops Monday and asked if they had any "junk silver", they would know I meant 90% U.S. silver sold at or about bullion value. If I then asked "how about any generic gold", I think they would assume im talking about pre 1930's U.S. gold that has become disconnected from almost all numismatic premiums, much the same as "junk silver". Thats my take on this topic anyway. >>

Well, dude, your limb just broke under your weight. Call Heritage on Monday and ask them to define what "generic gold" is and report back to us.

Edit: Here is how "generic gold" is defined by National Gold Exchange.

Here is how generic gold is defined at Park Avenue Numismatics.

Here is how generic gold is defined at Gold Rarities Gallery.

And I can go on and on... >>

I stopped reading your links after I saw a $3 gold piece in 65 described as "generic". Lets think about this in a logical sort of way. A bag full of 1937 mercs in EF/AU condition would be categorized as "junk silver", whose value would be solely derived by the bullion values. However, a superb gem mint roll of the same would NEVER be grouped as "junk silver", and would be valuated almost entirely in numismatic premium. Similarly, I believe one could never refer to a 1924 Saint in MS68 condition as being "generic gold".

gecko109 · January 10, 2009 3:13PM

Here is how David Hall himself defines the term. Note that grades DO in fact matter, and not just dates.

generic gold definition

MidLifeCrisis · January 10, 2009 4:53PM

I think the term "generic" has more to do with availability than grade. An MS 65 or even an MS 66 gold coin can be regarded as generic simply because it is common in the marketplace and is readily available in quantity. However, that same 65 or 66 coin may sell for much more than the current bullion price.

CertifiedGoldCoins · January 10, 2009 8:27PM

<< Here is how David Hall himself defines the term. >>

An MS66 Saint Gaudens generic? Maybe to those who have a lot of dough, but even a 1924 brought $2,700 on eBay recently (Dec. 30th). "Generic" to me means a circulated common date, that sells for little more than its bullion value. But hey, I'm not David Hall.

PerryHall · January 10, 2009 8:53PM

Generic = Common date = Type coin
The 1878 is the most common $3 gold but try to find one at melt.

RYK · January 10, 2009 10:45PM

<< 

<< Here is how David Hall himself defines the term. >>

An MS66 Saint Gaudens generic? Maybe to those who have a lot of dough, but even a 1924 brought $2,700 on eBay recently (Dec. 30th). "Generic" to me means a circulated common date, that sells for little more than its bullion value. But hey, I'm not David Hall.

>>

The question in the OP was not, "Hey, what do YOU consider to be generic gold?" It was what do dealers/collectors who speak of generic gold consider it to be. Several gave the wrong impression that it was gold available at melt, and I gave the correct answer that it was common date gold coins in a variety of grades, many of which do not sell anywhere near melt. I gave numerous examples of dealers who buy/sell this generic gold including their buy/sell prices.

So the bottom line is the market, dealers, investors, and collectors who are active in common date or generic gold really do not care what YOU (or others who are not familiar with the accepted lingo) think is generic gold. I want to make sure that folks who read this thread understand what knowledgeable people who buy/sell/trade generic gold are talking about, and not what a few outsiders want it to be considered.

kaz · January 11, 2009 3:13AM

Thanks to the o.p. for asking for a definition, and to RYK and others for helping me understand the meaning of generic gold in the numismatic context. Each profession has its own set of terms with specific meanings unique to that group.

One more question: if a generic gold coin has a "green bean sticker," is it still "generic?"

gecko109 · January 11, 2009 3:29AM

<< 

<< 

<< Here is how David Hall himself defines the term. >>

An MS66 Saint Gaudens generic? Maybe to those who have a lot of dough, but even a 1924 brought $2,700 on eBay recently (Dec. 30th). "Generic" to me means a circulated common date, that sells for little more than its bullion value. But hey, I'm not David Hall.

>>

The question in the OP was not, "Hey, what do YOU consider to be generic gold?" It was what do dealers/collectors who speak of generic gold consider it to be. Several gave the wrong impression that it was gold available at melt, and I gave the correct answer that it was common date gold coins in a variety of grades, many of which do not sell anywhere near melt. I gave numerous examples of dealers who buy/sell this generic gold including their buy/sell prices.

So the bottom line is the market, dealers, investors, and collectors who are active in common date or generic gold really do not care what YOU (or others who are not familiar with the accepted lingo) think is generic gold. I want to make sure that folks who read this thread understand what knowledgeable people who buy/sell/trade generic gold are talking about, and not what a few outsiders want it to be considered. >>

Is David Hall an active dealer, investor, and collector? Is he someone who knows coins? Because HE seems to think that generic gold is defined not only by common dates, but also within GRADE ranges as well. Or perhaps he is what you consider one of the few "outsiders".

PerryHall · January 11, 2009 3:35AM

How is "generic" different from "widget" which Laura used to use?

gecko109 · January 11, 2009 3:40AM

<< How is "generic" different from "widget" which Laura used to use?

>>

Agree, the 2 names seem to be synonymous. Thats partly why I cannot, and will not categorize an MS65 $3 gold piece as either "generic" nor a "widget", common date or otherwise. The fact is that you could visit a relatively large coin show (75+ tables), and not even see one of these.

RYK · January 11, 2009 3:50AM

<< 

<< How is "generic" different from "widget" which Laura used to use?

>>

Agree, the 2 names seem to be synonymous. Thats partly why I cannot, and will not categorize an MS65 $3 gold piece as either "generic" nor a "widget", common date or otherwise. The fact is that you could visit a relatively large coin show (75+ tables), and not even see one of these. >>

Another gecko thread where he continues to argue just for the sake of it.

I will change my official answer to:

"Generic gold is whatever gecko says it is."

Edit: Tomorrow, I will email Park Avenue, Heritage, GRG, and everyone else and inform them that they do not know what they are talking about.

I'm officially out of this thread. Bye.

CoinHusker · January 11, 2009 4:12AM

Where's that popcorn thingy when you need it?

gecko109 · January 11, 2009 4:25AM

<< 

<< 

<< How is "generic" different from "widget" which Laura used to use?

>>

Agree, the 2 names seem to be synonymous. Thats partly why I cannot, and will not categorize an MS65 $3 gold piece as either "generic" nor a "widget", common date or otherwise. The fact is that you could visit a relatively large coin show (75+ tables), and not even see one of these. >>

Another gecko thread where he continues to argue just for the sake of it.

I will change my official answer to:

"Generic gold is whatever gecko says it is."

Edit: Tomorrow, I will email Park Avenue, Heritage, GRG, and everyone else and inform them that they do not know what they are talking about.

I'm officially out of this thread. Bye. >>

Dont get upset RYK. David Hall HIMSELF doesnt even refer to a $3 gold piece as "generic gold". Why is this so hard for you to digest anyway?

TwoSides2aCoin · January 11, 2009 4:28AM

<< Where's that popcorn thingy when you need it?

>>

clw54 · January 11, 2009 4:33AM

I figured generic gold was things like circulated or lower grade uncirculated 1882 half eagles that are commonplace. There isn't anything unusual about them that will cause them to be more expensive than other half eagles from that period.

CertifiedGoldCoins · January 11, 2009 7:14AM

RYK replied to me....

<< The question in the OP was not, "Hey, what do YOU consider to be generic gold?" .... So the bottom line is the market, dealers, investors, and collectors who are active in common date or generic gold really do not care what YOU (or others who are not familiar with the accepted lingo) think is generic gold. >>

I have great respect for RYK, but I think I'm entitled to express my opinion. The thread does read: "Please Explain "Generic" Gold..." and was addressed ro the Board, which includes "outsiders" (whatever that means).

Please Explain "Generic" Gold...

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Please Explain &quot;Generic&quot; Gold...

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Please Explain "Generic" Gold...