Rotated coin in PCGS holder.

RMLTM79 · December 31, 2008 5:40PM

I mean really, how did this pass the supposed "final inspection"?

Ebay Auction

MrMag · December 31, 2008 5:50PM

well, now that's something else... sheesh.

Boom · December 31, 2008 5:58PM

Well - ya know - that's NOT EVEN FUNNY!

Actually, I find it rather incredible.

I've found several "foreign objects" in with some of my coins before too.

Hair (eyelashes), nose accumulations (droppings), follicles, particles of dirt ...

but Geeez! All I can say is "Wow"!

WTCG · December 31, 2008 6:02PM

The rubber ring that holds the coin in place is not attached to the plastic parts of the holder therefore the ring and coin can move around and rotate after the holder sealing process. A few taps on the holder and the ring and coin will rotate back into their proper position.

Nobody was "drinking on the job" over at PCGS. Considering how many coins they holder daily they are quite consistent and do a very good job.

Often times I see comments on the forums about "foreign objects" inside PCGS holders. Interestingly enough I can say that I have never had any of my coins returned to me from PCGS with any distracting debris encapsulated other than the occasional speck of dust, and this is with consideration that most likely I handle more PCGS slabs than most members here.

commoncents05 · December 31, 2008 6:08PM

Rotated in the holder after leaving PCGS. I've seen quite a few of them.

-Paul

RMLTM79 · December 31, 2008 6:19PM

<< Rotated in the holder after leaving PCGS. I've seen quite a few of them.

-Paul >>

The ring has a raised edge that gets sandwiched when the holder is put together, essentially eliminating any movement. I've tossed around a few PCGS coins and I never seen them move a millemeter, let alone a complete 90 degree turn.

And if a few taps would move this coin back in place, don't you think the owner in the auction would have done that?

Boom · December 31, 2008 6:29PM

Do you understand how to tap it in order to get the coin in the right position?

WTCG · December 31, 2008 6:33PM

<< 

<< Rotated in the holder after leaving PCGS. I've seen quite a few of them.

-Paul >>

The ring has a raised edge that gets sandwiched when the holder is put together, essentially eliminating any movement. I've tossed around a few PCGS coins and I never seen them move a millemeter, let alone a complete 90 degree turn.

And if a few taps would move this coin back in place, don't you think the owner in the auction would have done that? >>

In theory the ring is supposed to be sandwiched between the two holder parts but due to normal slight manufacturing variations some rings may be slightly thinner than others and those would be the ones that may move inside the holder.

Although the vast majority of the rings don't move, I assure you that some do. In fact you can find examples of some holders where the ring has rotated a complete 180 degrees. The problem with tapping the coin back into place is that the coin and insert are just as capable of again rotating out of position after some movement of the holder.

Boom · December 31, 2008 6:45PM

In Wei's described scenario, if this continues to be problematic (assuming you manage to tap it <or as Cam would say - "whack it a few times" > enough to get it in the correct/ desired position) you can send ti to PCGS and get the coin reholdered.

I should also go on record saying that I have also found undesirable, foreign matter in NGC slabs as well thus this is not inclusice to solely PCGS slabbed coins.

Bochiman · December 31, 2008 6:54PM

"drinking on the job" due to the rotation of the coin in the holder? Another attempt at humor by being derogatory towards PCGS employees?
If so, totally uncool. Why does humor have to be at the expense of others? Especially in such a way as to cast dispersion on their job? Surely there are better ways?

I enjoy a good bout as much as most but the sophmoric ways that I see people doing this are just low, imho.

As to tapping the holder, yep, that can be done. Why the seller doesn't do it? Who knows. I don't bother to do it to any of mine that are slightly off kilter.
I image them, put them in the SDB, and leave it like that. If/when I go to sell them, I don't worry about the tilt. Anyone who feels that the rotation is a knock on the coin need not bother going for it as they are likely to be a problem for more than that anyway....I would rather sell to someone who enjoys the coin for what it is and can do their own tapping if they want.

WTCG · December 31, 2008 6:57PM

<< "drinking on the job" due to the rotation of the coin in the holder? Another attempt at humor by being derogatory towards PCGS employees?
If so, totally uncool. Why does humor have to be at the expense of others? Especially in such a way as to cast dispersion on their job? Surely there are better ways?

I enjoy a good bout as much as most but the sophmoric ways that I see people doing this are just low, imho.

As to tapping the holder, yep, that can be done. Why the seller doesn't do it? Who knows. I don't bother to do it to any of mine that are slightly off kilter.
I image them, put them in the SDB, and leave it like that. If/when I go to sell them, I don't worry about the tilt. Anyone who feels that the rotation is a knock on the coin need not bother going for it as they are likely to be a problem for more than that anyway....I would rather sell to someone who enjoys the coin for what it is and can do their own tapping if they want. >>

I agree with the first paragraph. Whether you like PCGS or not, unsubstantiated cheap shots at their personnel are inappropriate. When you build a cordial business and personal relationship with them over the years you will realize that the majority of their people are pleasant, professional and are good at what they do.

golfer72 · December 31, 2008 7:42PM

isnt that one of the new 2nd generation rattler holders?

Atlantic · December 31, 2008 8:52PM

as stated it could turn, that is one of the older holders, (a few years), not a fresh grade,,

ColonialCoinUnion · December 31, 2008 9:37PM

Coins rotate in the holder all the time - it's not funny, it's not unusual, and it takes about 15 seconds to tap it back into the right position if you know what you're doing.

Anybody who doesn't know this really needs to get out more.

frnklnlvr · December 31, 2008 10:46PM

Here's one I have, I've never tried to straighten it. It's really not a big deal to me.

ColonialCoinUnion · December 31, 2008 10:47PM

It seems to happen most often when we mail things.

golfer72 · December 31, 2008 11:04PM

As far as I am concerned rotated coins are a pita. Its either poor slab design or poor quality control or a combination of both. Not that big a deal if your coins are packed away in a safe deposit box but if you like to put them in albums and look at groups of coins together it stinks. Also tough for viewing pictures on Internet auctions. No excuse for it.

mommam17 · December 31, 2008 11:16PM

Can any rotated PCGS coin be straightened? I have one I would like to be straight. It would only have to go from 4 to 6 to be there.

ColonialCoinUnion · December 31, 2008 11:41PM

<< Can any rotated PCGS coin be straightened? I have one I would like to be straight. It would only have to go from 4 to 6 to be there. >>

Yes.

mommam17 · December 31, 2008 11:59PM

THANK YOU THANK YOU. I did it. It is now straight!!!!!!!!!!!!

RYK · January 1, 2009 12:08AM

One of my favorite coins is rotated about 90 degrees and no amount of tapping has corrected it.

Another favorite coin, a small one, is tilted in the holder.

Like Wei, I believe that it is inappropriate to blame it on "PCGS employees drinking on the job" and such personal attacks are not only unfair and unwarranted, but they shift the focus from the problem in a nonproductive fashion. I do agree with the OP in that it is very disappointing to open the package and see your coin misaligned in the holder (or with foreign material in them), and, IMO, PCGS should fix these at shows, promptly and free of charge.

mommam17 · January 1, 2009 12:12AM

When I did it, I went the long way. The coin went counter clock from 4 to 6. Once it started moving it went easier and easier.

fc · January 1, 2009 12:12AM

haha... i was expecting to find a dead mouse in the slab based
on the thread title.

a rotated coin is hardly worth a post!

mommam17 · January 1, 2009 12:17AM

I hate rotated coins and was going to go through the expence of getting it re holdered. THANKS to this thread, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!

OPA · January 1, 2009 12:47AM

<< "drinking on the job" due to the rotation of the coin in the holder? Another attempt at humor by being derogatory towards PCGS employees? >>

notwilight · January 1, 2009 12:56AM

I have fixed dozens of these by tapping. Sometimes they rotate in the mail and I've helped buyers fix them over the phone. I've never come across one that wouldn't fix like RYKs. Perhaps I can buy the coin in the OP cheap and fix it. I can make money slab doctoring--legitimately.

--Jerry

RMLTM79 · January 1, 2009 4:16AM

Apparently the title of this post has offended some people, if so, I apologize, it will be changed. In a way, it was sort of intended to be humorous and derogatory because if the coin did leave PCGS that way, then they truly are drinking on the job.

Also, as you all can see by the number of posts, I'm fairly new to collecting and didn't realize that the new PCGS holders sometimes have problems like this. Of course, some of you don't care where the coin is positioned but I do, I find it annoying and unprofessional.

Again, I apologize for offending anyone, back to lurking I go.....

BAJJERFAN · January 1, 2009 4:28AM

Does it have a pink whirlwind sticker on it to show that its properly rotated for the grade?

CoinJunkie · January 1, 2009 4:42AM

<< One of my favorite coins is rotated about 90 degrees and no amount of tapping has corrected it. >>

Sometimes they are really stubborn. You have to tap really hard repeatedly for a minute or more.
Ironically, the person who straightened me out on this was David Hall at the PCGS table at Long Beach.

fcloud · January 1, 2009 4:44AM

<< 

<< One of my favorite coins is rotated about 90 degrees and no amount of tapping has corrected it. >>

Sometimes they are really stubborn. You have to tap really hard repeatedly for a minute or more.
Ironically, the person who straightened me out on this was David Hall at the PCGS table at Long Beach. >>

It depends on the weight of the coin, too. Cent and dimes are tought to get to move.

mozin · February 9, 2012 2:31AM

I finally found a coin that I simply cannot seem to get rotating in the PCGS holder, even by tapping for ten minutes. It is an 1814 Bust Half Dollar, rotated about 135 degrees, and stuck there. This coin is worth at least $3,000, and not for sale.

Anyone have any suggestions, besides sending it to PCGS?

ModCrewman · February 9, 2012 2:42AM

Some links worth sharing in THIS THREAD.

Kove · February 9, 2012 3:38AM

Mozin, the Sonicare toothbrush method works for me when tapping does not. 90% of the time, holding a vibrating Sonicare on the corner of the slab will have that coin/gasket spinning around in no time.

If it doesn't work at first, putting the slab in the freezer will do the trick. The cold air shrinks the gasket more than the plastic slab, allowing easier movement.

In fact, I believe this is why so many coins rotate during shipment. They are in cold environments (airplane cargo hold comes to mind), and the gasket is able to rotate more easily when cold.

steveben · February 9, 2012 4:18AM

it doesn't bother me. i rotate coins when looking at them anyway, so it's not an issue.

PCGSCustomerService · February 9, 2012 4:27AM

A two page thread on rotating coins? This type of thing doesn't happen very often, but when it does it typically happens during the mailing process or from just being banged around. If it does happen and you can't get it to go back we're very good about fixing them at no charge. There's no reason for cheap shot comments toward our work, however if we did drink on the job it'd be a lot easier to read some of these threads

Billet7 · February 9, 2012 4:33AM

I asked this question in a separate thread, since it was a different question regarding pronged holders, but it was locked...so I will ask it here.

Anyone know if they rotate easier than they did in the older style holder. I would think with the decreased surface area they would rotate in the holder easier, but perhaps they are tighter and have a better hold on the coin, almost like they are gripped between three fingers. Maybe with reeded coins they actually hold better since there is an edge that would tend to hold in the groves of the reeds.

Anyone have any experience in the matter? Probably something most people haven't run into yet.

I'm sure PCGS did product testing on this point, any input?

PCGSCustomerService · February 9, 2012 4:35AM

It's the same question, just a different type of gasket. No need for another thread.

MsMorrisine · February 9, 2012 4:36AM

I haven't had trouble rotating either gasket or prong holdered coins.

I need to try the sonicare solution though.

Kove · February 9, 2012 4:44AM

<< I asked this question in a separate thread, since it was a different question regarding pronged holders, but it was locked...so I will ask it here.

Anyone know if they rotate easier than they did in the older style holder. I would think with the decreased surface area they would rotate in the holder easier, but perhaps they are tighter and have a better hold on the coin, almost like they are gripped between three fingers. Maybe with reeded coins they actually hold better since there is an edge that would tend to hold in the groves of the reeds.

Anyone have any experience in the matter? Probably something most people haven't run into yet.

I'm sure PCGS did product testing on this point, any input? >>

In the pre-pronged holders, it's usually the rubber gasket that is rotating, and the coin is rotating along for the ride, held firmly inside the gasket. Tapping/Sonicare rotates the entire gasket back into place.

On the new pronged holders, the few coins I've seen rotated have been smooth-edged coins like nickels and 2c pieces. In these holders, it does appear to be the coins rotating, as opposed to the entire gasket as in the earlier holders. The Sonicare rotated the coins right back into place on the pronged holders, as well.

PCGSCustomerService · February 9, 2012 5:36AM

Thanks Kove!

ColonialCoinUnion · February 9, 2012 5:49AM

<< In fact, I believe this is why so many coins rotate during shipment. They are in cold environments (airplane cargo hold comes to mind), and the gasket is able to rotate more easily when cold. >>

Now I understand why coins rotate during shipment, but seldom at other times!

RhinoRacing · February 9, 2012 8:34AM

Wow it worked I have a coin in a prong holder that was rotated 45 degrees and it worked........

jmb · February 9, 2012 10:19AM

<< Wow it worked I have a coin in a prong holder that was rotated 45 degrees and it worked........

>>

Just fixed 2 coins myself.

Bochiman · February 9, 2012 10:34AM

<< 

<< In fact, I believe this is why so many coins rotate during shipment. They are in cold environments (airplane cargo hold comes to mind), and the gasket is able to rotate more easily when cold. >>

Now I understand why coins rotate during shipment, but seldom at other times! >>

Kove is a treasure trove of informative information

mozin · February 10, 2012 2:04AM

This morning I took my coin out of the freezer, took the plastic bag off of it, and again tried the Sonicare toothbrush. No luck at all. Next, I put on the toothbrush head, and tried to rotate the coin. The coin started moving one way, then reversed itself, without me changing the placement of the toothbrush head on the PCGS holder. Finally, I managed to get the coin enough rotated in the holder to satisfy me, although a tiny bit more would have been better. Finished!

I have no idea if the freezer helped, but for me it took the plastic from the toothbrush head to cause the rotation. I tried placing the toothbrush head onto many parts of the PCGS holder. For this coin, it seemed to go both directions no matter where the toothbrush head was placed. If I held the head in the same position, coin rotated one way, then reversed itself and rotated the other way. All I could manage was about a ninety degree area of movement.

Thanks to all of you that offered your help. Now I do not need to send the coin off to PCGS.

Note that this coin has a measured 60 degree CCW DIE ROTATION.

MonteCarlo · February 10, 2012 5:02AM

Good to hear you got it worked out, Mozin. I had this vivid image of a freezing cold slab being banged onto a hard concrete surface with shattered plastic bits going everywhere! Glad to hear you didn't try combining THOSE two methods.

BryceM · February 12, 2012 6:19AM

I was glad to see the freezer trick. I had a 1922-D Peace dollar that wouldn't budge. I tried banging, sonicare, and everything else. The freezer followed by sonicare did the trick!

BAJJERFAN · February 12, 2012 7:29AM

<< Mozin, the Sonicare toothbrush method works for me when tapping does not. 90% of the time, holding a vibrating Sonicare on the corner of the slab will have that coin/gasket spinning around in no time.

If it doesn't work at first, putting the slab in the freezer will do the trick. The cold air shrinks the gasket more than the plastic slab, allowing easier movement.

In fact, I believe this is why so many coins rotate during shipment. They are in cold environments (airplane cargo hold comes to mind), and the gasket is able to rotate more easily when cold. >>

Actually the cold shrinks the coin making it smaller. I don't think the gasket material contracts anywhere near as much as the metal would. Same logic for getting ASEs out of the tight-fitting plastic mint tubes. I expect there is a lot of low level vibration on a commercial airplane too.

Rotated coin in PCGS holder.

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