Received an empty $2500 box today

commoncents123 · December 9, 2008 11:51AM

It was stamped "received in bad condition" at (the post offices zip code). The box was empty. Has anyone been thru this before? What's my best strategy for a Paypal chargeback if I think the seller is not putting forth an effort?

notwilight · December 9, 2008 12:05PM

How was it shipped?

Placid · December 9, 2008 12:10PM

Have you always had this much bad luck?

smokincoin · December 9, 2008 12:15PM

<< Have you always had this much bad luck? >>

I was thinking the same thing!

HighRelief · December 9, 2008 12:19PM

<< How was it shipped? >>

DITTO

commoncents123 · December 9, 2008 12:20PM

It was shipped by regular Priority with insurance, no signature confirmation. This is the second package I've had major trouble with in a month. The other one was one that I mailed, completely lost. I only send/receive a total of about 10 packages a month, too.

illini420 · December 9, 2008 12:20PM

hope it was insured properly

commoncents123 · December 9, 2008 12:23PM

<< hope it was insured properly >>

define "properly"

Placid · December 9, 2008 12:24PM

I thought the p.o. was supposed to get a signature on anything insured for over $250 and considering the box had a stamp like that on it I am surprised they didnt unless the seller under insured it

19Lyds · December 9, 2008 12:25PM

I suppose you could email the seller with a copy of what the post office gave you and if the seller doesn;t work with you, file your item not received dispute with PayPal.

From what I understand, its the responsibility of the Insurer to file the claim.

erwindoc · December 9, 2008 12:25PM

My definition would be at or slightly above the price of the contents inside.

smokincoin · December 9, 2008 12:28PM

Just curious...what was supposed to be in the box?

JrGMan2004 · December 9, 2008 12:28PM

<< I suppose you could email the seller with a copy of what the post office gave you and if the seller doesn;t work with you, file your item not received dispute with PayPal.

From what I understand, its the responsibility of the Insurer to file the claim. >>

Don't take my word on it, and someone with more experience may chime in differently... but you will likely have better luck with an "Item Significantly Not As Described" claim, rather than a never recieved... because, technically, you received a package, and he'll have proof of delivery... and if he proves delivery to PayPal's satisfaction, you lose...

commoncents123 · December 9, 2008 12:30PM

<< 

<< I suppose you could email the seller with a copy of what the post office gave you and if the seller doesn;t work with you, file your item not received dispute with PayPal.

From what I understand, its the responsibility of the Insurer to file the claim. >>

Don't take my word on it, and someone with more experience may chime in differently... but you will likely have better luck with an "Item Significantly Not As Described" claim, rather than a never recieved... because, technically, you received a package, and he'll have proof of delivery... and if he proves delivery to PayPal's satisfaction, you lose... >>

You may be right. I suppose I'd have to mail back an empty box

mrpotatoheadd · December 9, 2008 12:41PM

<< You may be right. I suppose I'd have to mail back an empty box >>

Before you do anything, you should check with the post office about what's needed for a claim.

From here:

1.0 General Filing Instructions

1.3 Who May File
A claim may be filed by:

a. Either the mailer or addressee, for damaged articles or articles with some or all of the contents missing.

From here:

Proof of Damage or Partial Loss of Contents

If the addressee files the claim, the addressee must make the damaged article and mailing container available to the USPS for inspection, including any wrapping, packaging, and any other contents that were received.

If the mailer files the claim, the St. Louis Accounting Service Center (ASC) will notify the addressee by letter to present the damaged article and mailing container to the USPS for inspection, including any wrapping, packaging, and any other contents that were received. Failure to do so will result in denial of the claim.

19Lyds · December 9, 2008 1:03PM

Regardless of how you proceed you should always contact the seller first to let him know that the bax was "damaged" and empty.

As was pointed out, I can only assume that you had to sign for it.

You did sign right?

Placid · December 9, 2008 1:06PM

<< Regardless of how you proceed you should always contact the seller first to let him know that the bax was "damaged" and empty.

As was pointed out, I can only assume that you had to sign for it.

You did sign right? >>

The seller might think all is ok and throw away the insurance receipt.

coasterfan · December 9, 2008 1:50PM

The postal service destroyed a package for me as well. Fortunately, it was just a box of DVDs I ordered (a $200 order) and the retailer (Deep Discount DVD) was willing to resend. The sealed box was opened and the contents were missing except for the packing slip and packing material. The box was stamped "Received Unsealed at (my post office)". Some postal service employee is enjoying my BluRay DVDs.

illini420 · December 9, 2008 2:12PM

<< 

<< hope it was insured properly >>

define "properly" >>

Just meant that it was insured for the full value and not one of those cheapo less than $200 value tags that doesn't need to be signed for. If I received a box like that I would not sign for it and I'd refuse delivery. Make the post office take it back to the sender.

That said, if you used PayPal and a credit card through Paypal, you should be fine (after a little work maybe) as if PayPal doesn't make it right with the seller, you credit card company should.

Good luck and let us know what happens in case we face the empty box someday...

slipgate · December 9, 2008 10:37PM

hmmm... I thought you had to send it registered for that high dollar amount. If not, and it was coins, I don't think the PO will pay.

In any case, it is not your problem, file the chargeback with Paypal, help the seller with the claim and move on.

TwoSides2aCoin · December 9, 2008 10:42PM

Expensive box. I want to hear about the coin.

Bochiman · December 9, 2008 10:45PM

Jesse....is that you?

coinpictures · December 9, 2008 10:48PM

$2500? No signature confirmation? Auto-win on a PayPal chargeback.

CertifiedGoldCoins · December 9, 2008 11:04PM

<< it is not your problem, file the chargeback with Paypal, help the seller with the claim and move on. >>

I had a similar problem long ago, with a silver ingot. Through a local Post Office friend, I located it at the Dead Letter Office in St. Louis. They would not send it on to me, and paid the insurance claim instead.

RyGuy · December 9, 2008 11:11PM

<< I thought the p.o. was supposed to get a signature on anything insured for over $250 and considering the box had a stamp like that on it I am surprised they didnt unless the seller under insured it

>>

I just mailed a package and insured it for $300, no signature was required from neither I or the person it was mailed to.

Ryan

WinPitcher · December 9, 2008 11:18PM

Ryan in your case you are not covered if a problem arises with paypal. However I think you are mistaken the buyer will have to sign for it.
It was the blue USPS sticker, correct? Paypal wants electronic signature I think it costs .85 cents at the window, cheaper if you do it online.

also, a 2.500.00 box could have been sent registered priority insured, that way the seller would have been covered
by the USPS and paypal.

And to answer another question/statement either the buyer or seller can do a USPS insurance claim.

Both are required to sign for it.

Good luck, I don't think you will have a problem, especially if it was insured fully.

Steve

Frankcoins · December 9, 2008 11:31PM

You need to work through the post office before contacting Paypal. If you do it the other way, you risk the post office not paying because you were reimbursed by a third party, but with that much money involved, the merchant would likely sue for for recovery. At that point, Paypal rules won't apply, but the actual law, which states that the seller's responsibility ends when he drops the item off at the post office.

LALASD4 · December 10, 2008 12:01AM

You should have refused the package at the P.O. and have it return to the sender.

puritan9 · December 10, 2008 12:35AM

When I seller sends me something over $500 (coin), I always open it at the Post Office window with the teller in front of me (I will move to the side to do it.). When something should be sent registered and it is not, I will always make sure the item is in the package. Anything can happen when you mail something.

seateddime · December 10, 2008 1:10AM

ouch!

mrearlygold · December 10, 2008 1:19AM

<< hope it was insured properly >>

Hope the insurance company doesn't need welfare bailout

mrearlygold · December 10, 2008 1:20AM

<< You should have refused the package at the P.O. and have it return to the sender. >>

Or maybe opened it with the postmaster as witness. If the postmaster refuses to witness, THEN refuse it.

mkman123 · December 10, 2008 1:38AM

perhaps opened by the mailman???

19Lyds · December 10, 2008 1:50AM

<< You should have refused the package at the P.O. and have it return to the sender. >>

Depending upon the contents, it would be difficult to tell if the box were actually empty upon initial receipt.

In other words, two rolls of Morgans vs 2 individual Morgans.

commoncents123 · December 10, 2008 4:05AM

Yea I know what you're saying about sending it back, but my girlfriend was the one who picked it up...she didn't know any better (now I know better eh). So what's the consensus, should I do a chargeback for SNAD and mail the box back to him? Who says USPS doesn't pay for coins worth that much not registered?

TavernTreasures · December 10, 2008 4:23AM

Most here are so quick to have paypal stick it to the seller when the post office destroys a (well wrapped?) package.

In the real world, without the instant gratification of paypal rules, the buyer brings the original damaged package, proof of purchase receipt and the insurance receipt (both receipts he gets from the seller) to the post office in order to file a claim. About 4 to 6 weeks later, the post office pays the claim to the buyer.

mrpotatoheadd · December 10, 2008 4:55AM

<< So what's the consensus, should I do a chargeback for SNAD and mail the box back to him? >>

Have you contacted the seller yet? What did he say? Why would you even think of mailing the box back? Did you read the info I posted earlier from the post office website where it says that doing so would result in a denial of any claim?

<< Most here are so quick to have paypal stick it to the seller >>

It would appear so.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but really- how would you feel if you were the seller and your buyer voided the insurance coverage you paid for and then did a PayPal chargeback which stuck you with the loss?

lasvegasteddy · December 10, 2008 6:04AM

hey winpitcher

"also, a 2.500.00 box could have been sent registered priority insured,"

there is no priority option on registered...it travels at a snail's pace

drwstr123 · December 10, 2008 6:19AM

First, save the box, thee stamp of damage is the Postal endorsement that the item was damaged prior to your receiving it. Next, check with the sender as to the amount of insurance. It should've required a signature if properly insured. Oh, and the P.O. sucks.

mrpotatoheadd · December 10, 2008 7:36AM

<< there is no priority option on registered...it travels at a snail's pace >>

Registered mail does travel slow. However, for any package over 13 ounces, the shipping services available are Express Mail, Priority Mail, Parcel Post and Media Mail. And of those four, if you want to send the package registered, Priority Mail is the only option.

commoncents123 · December 10, 2008 7:45AM

<< hmmm... I thought you had to send it registered for that high dollar amount. If not, and it was coins, I don't think the PO will pay.

In any case, it is not your problem, file the chargeback with Paypal, help the seller with the claim and move on. >>

What is your basis for this theory? Why would they not cover coins?

commoncents123 · December 10, 2008 7:46AM

<< 

<< So what's the consensus, should I do a chargeback for SNAD and mail the box back to him? >>

Have you contacted the seller yet? What did he say? Why would you even think of mailing the box back? Did you read the info I posted earlier from the post office website where it says that doing so would result in a denial of any claim?

<< Most here are so quick to have paypal stick it to the seller >>

It would appear so.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but really- how would you feel if you were the seller and your buyer voided the insurance coverage you paid for and then did a PayPal chargeback which stuck you with the loss? >>

Have I done a chargeback yet? No. We're just having a discussion

notwilight · December 10, 2008 7:48AM

<< 

<< hmmm... I thought you had to send it registered for that high dollar amount. If not, and it was coins, I don't think the PO will pay. In any case, it is not your problem, file the chargeback with Paypal, help the seller with the claim and move on. >>

What is your basis for this theory? Why would they not cover coins? >>

I'm not aware of any such rule.

It is really the seller's problem and you should contact him and let him deal with it. He will be probably be (understandably) concerened that he might be dealing with a scammer who recieved the coins and then claims the box was empty. The "Damaged" stamp should help and you should offer to do everything you can to help him with his insurance case with the USPS. Then you'll probably have an excruciatingly long wait while the USPS does the insurance gig. --Jerry

WinPitcher · December 10, 2008 7:53AM

ey winpitcher

"also, a 2.500.00 box could have been sent registered priority insured,"

there is no priority option on registered...it travels at a snail's pace

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

There most certainly is.

You can buy 1st class registered and or priority registered. I have done both.

It is not the same as regular priority that is delivered with 2 to 3 days.

Steve

segoja · December 10, 2008 7:54AM

Good Luck!

WinPitcher · December 10, 2008 8:01AM

Not sure if this has been mentioned but I'd contact the seller first before I did anything.

If I did not get an answer from him that helped I'd then go on to my other options.

Good luck!

Steve

derryb · December 10, 2008 8:17AM

<< ey winpitcher

"also, a 2.500.00 box could have been sent registered priority insured,"

there is no priority option on registered...it travels at a snail's pace

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

There most certainly is.

You can buy 1st class registered and or priority registered. I have done both.

It is not the same as regular priority that is delivered with 2 to 3 days.

Steve >>

There is no advantage to registered priority, it just cost more. Registered mail is going to travel it's normal slow pace regardless of whether it is priority or first class. Only difference is if it is over 13 ounces or if it is in a priority box or envelope they are going to charge you at the priority registered rate instead of the cheaper first class registered rate. Never choose registered priority unless you have to (weight or you are shipping in one of the post offices priority boxes/envelopes). Not only is registered more secure than normal priority and first class, but it can be cheaper when you get in the $600+ insurance range. I just mailed registered first class a 1 oz gold slab insured for $995 and it cost $16.32. I also mailed registered first class a 1 oz saint slab, insured for $3800 and it cost $21.32. Also be aware that the electronic return receipt is only $1 and does the same thing as the $2+ signature confirmation. I have confirmed with paypal that as long as they can access from the postal site your proof of delivery, they will accept your proof of delivery. Signature confirmation and electronic return receipt both do this.

lasvegasteddy · December 10, 2008 8:50AM

i stand corrected and wasn't aware registered offered a choice...i'm sorry

YaHa · December 10, 2008 8:51AM

<< 

<< You should have refused the package at the P.O. and have it return to the sender. >>

Or maybe opened it with the postmaster as witness. If the postmaster refuses to witness, THEN refuse it. >>

Never Ever receive a Package or letter while sealed in a post office damaged plastic sleeve. I have had a few in my time and always told them to return to sender/seller or it's origination because it was opened/machine damaged by a third party and this voids delivery in my mind. I had a few letters in my time, took them to the post office told them nata and they stamped it with a huge stamper Return to Sender.

I had a rare old note I bought from a ebayer that was dropped by the postal clerk in between the dock and the truck while it was unloaded in the snowy winter days. The story I got from my postmaster was It wasn't found for 13 days or so. It was soaked and warped hanging out in the plastic bag the Post office puts it in.

Now mind you this was a very valuable note. The seller accused me of lying, trying to cheat him out of his money and even filed ebay Squaretrade case against me because on his end he read that it was delivered and sign for. I told him in no way I did any of this.

Then I get another email from him that the post office doesn't have any record of the item. Then more names were offered towards me and a lawsuit. Later on I found out it was in deadmail center, by trying to help this guy out and he still thought I was playing games.

Well I already filed a Credit Card chargeback from my CC company and was granted it within 10 days, boy was the seller peed and also did the paypal thingy, but because I paid by C.Card on paypal they didn't honor my request for help.

I don't know whatever happened until this day I think the seller was on the lightside of insurance in the first place. Ebay removed the neg the seller put on my feedback and kept the one I put on him for being a real horses hinny. So again anything you see not in proper condition put the burden back on the post service and the seller. It is a headache waiting to happen and your money tied up for months.

Good luck with your transaction.

BRING BACK THE REAL PONY EXPRESS.

YaHa · December 10, 2008 9:04AM

<< ey winpitcher

"also, a 2.500.00 box could have been sent registered priority insured,"

there is no priority option on registered...it travels at a snail's pace

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

There most certainly is.

You can buy 1st class registered and or priority registered. I have done both.

It is not the same as regular priority that is delivered with 2 to 3 days.

Steve >>

Steve you are 100% right. Also do you guys know the game at the post office. There are certain times, parcel post, 1st class and Reg priorty mail if you send out on a Friday they will all get there at the same time on Monday excluding the Holidays of course.

Also do you see slow junk mail always on Wed/Thursdays that's because fulltime delivery clerks work on Sat. and during the week a fill in delivers the junk or priorty mail.

Well I know it has happened in my area all my life. I just sent out coins to Silver Eagles last week both parcel post one on Wed.noon and the other Friday night and he got both of them on the following Monday. I knew this because my annex is huge here in my area and they say a lot of reg mail, 1st class, parcel post and the great extra fee for priority 2/3 days not guranteed sits in the annex in the middle of the week. So try it, Fridays for Monday delivery and Monday by Thursday at the lastest. All of those so called No postaged ness gets delivered whenever.

Received an empty $2500 box today

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