"... I just think that relying or demanding that Ebay take a proactive stance would be unrealistic on the system. Perhaps what has transpired on this thread is the only efficient solution at this time until someone comes up with a better idea...."
//////////////////////////////////
There is GREAT merit to your concerns and resulting position.
As a near-daily "victim" of the VeRO scheme, I can report that when it is necessary EBAY can do a VERY good job of over-policing the site by relying on a "trusted third-party."
In MANY instances, the VeRO reps are FAR less knowledgeable about the products they represent than I am. Yet, under the system that EBAY has willingly sanctioned and easily implemented, the VeRO "opinion" ALWAYS prevails.
If a LEGITIMATE "memorabilia policing body" was established - and accepted by EBAY - the problems would be greatly diminished. To my knowledge, nobody has ever pitched the possibilty to EBAY T&S.
Listing takedowns would be temporary, pending PROOF that the items were legit. VeRO's "determination and appeals" process is cumbersome and can be lengthy. While it usually seems arbitrary - and even preferentially targeted - it can be worked within if the affected lister has patience and expertise.
MOST of the mistakes and hard-feelings caused by VeRO "unfairness" could be avoided in memorabilia policing. If one examines the record of reports made in this forum, it need only be asked, "How many times has the collective opinion been wrong?," to determine the potential viability of such a scheme.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>You know, I hear what all of you are saying, but I have to ask: how would ebay patrol these scammers? >>
A good start would to be require all single packs to be graded packs. I understand they may have made this requirement on some single cards such as the Mantle, Jordan and Gretzky RC's. This would do a dual purpose of ending the idiot "Hot Pack" auctions as well. Ebay wont do it since a lot of people may legitimately sell unopened product, but this would end a lot of the nonsense with single pack auctions.
"A good start would to be require all single packs to be graded packs. I understand they may have made this requirement on some single cards such as the Mantle, Jordan and Gretzky RC's. This would do a dual purpose of ending the idiot "Hot Pack" auctions as well. Ebay wont do it since a lot of people may legitimately sell unopened product, but this would end a lot of the nonsense with single pack auctions. "
/////////////////////////////////////////
Hopefully, it will NOT come to that.
MOST packs for sale are likely just fine; especially the cheap/just-for-fun ones that help get folks interested in the hobby.
Third-Party participation is the answer to cleaning up the mess. It can be well organized and quasi-official, OR it will remain vigilante-like.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
Required authentication by either GAI (regardless of one's opinion of their rep) or PSA would probably be the end of pack sales on ebay as most being sold aren't even worth the authentication fees. The cheap ones being sold in relativley higher volume are pretty much bought to be opened for fun or for high grade cards, the pricy ones likely get split between openers and pack collectors. As a pack collector I can only speak for hockey wax in that anything pre-1975 could be required to be slabbed as most of it is anyways already. Later series that are worth more than the fees would be 1979 topps (never buy raw) and OPC and 1980 OPC (~$25) where one still might see a small profit in pack sales due to the money cards from those sets. Being required to place the "maybe its been searched" disclaimer wouldn't make it worthwhile to sell raw packs I figure as it would scare most buyers off, when as stated previously, most of the cheap stuff is likely perfectly fine. Setting a cut off date gets more complicated when you toss in the variation within the other 3 sports and let's not forget non-sport where many of the rare late 50's and 60's packs command big dollars.
So Steve, would your logic apply to unopened boxes as well? And if so, what does this do for BBCExchange? Would this require him to slab all his product through GAI? Not meaning to sound combative, but this could put a strain on some honest sellers of unopened material.
Wow, that was a lot of reading lol. It was worth it tho and I'm going to continue to follow this. Anxious to see the police response. I can't help but think the seller could get out of all this by claiming he didn't know the packs were searched/resealed. He simply bought them and resold them. I guess if pics of the empty packs match up with packs he's selling as unsealed he would be busted.
For those that bought this sellers Buy it now items and immed left feedback, I image those comments will be removed when seller contacts eBay about it. That's a clear violation of feedback rules. Should have bought the item, paid, got it, left the negs then file with PP as SNAD for refund. At least this way you would have definite proof in hand. I understand it was done to stop the seller immediately but fear it will backfire on you. If seller has the gull to contact eBay about it, I'd image they would have to remove it per their TOS. I wouldn't have said anything to the seller about the packs being resealed before receiving them either as they most likely have some unsealed packs for buyers with such inquiries.
Great looking out for the hobby! Wonder how many buyers have been mislead by this seller.
<< <i>So Steve, would your logic apply to unopened boxes as well? And if so, what does this do for BBCExchange? Would this require him to slab all his product through GAI? Not meaning to sound combative, but this could put a strain on some honest sellers of unopened material.
>>
I know steve sells some of his product on ebay, but to be honest, I think with marketing of just a few items, it would draw most of the traffic to his site anyway. Its the small dealers who happen to have an extra case or two of something that would get killed, but eBay has shown that no system is perfect.
You guys should help me with this guy who has some Chrome Proofs recently and in the past..alot. Seems to be the sole seller of them. Made from seperating any Chrome card. I call him on every angle that they are fake but he persists. Ignorance and trying to get me to buy into it. Kinda frustrating but he has every reason to keep lying. Not much anyne can do though but email winners and give him a hard time.
The last time the chrome proff guy was a thread topic, I believe the cards he was selling were not worth much and not selling for much. If I remember correctly, we figured after all his fees and shipping costs, he was only making less than a dollar per card in most cases. Seems lot a lot of work for a buck or two.
His last batch avg. $7 per card w/o shipping. Has 22 more up now. Yeah, people losing $5 isnt anything but he's been doing it for awhile now so it has to add up. I used to see some sell for $30 etc. More importantly is all these people thinking they have a rare card in their collection now.
2. List them on EBAY as: "Counterfeit Chrome Proof 'Player' Consumer Safety Instructions" (Offer FREE shipping and use a free subtitle: "Consumer Defense Against FAKE Chorme Proofs") Make sure your keywords include those the SCAMSTER is using.
2a: In the listing-body, explain the SCAM in detail.
3. Start listings at one-cent.
4. Send the buyer a fake example - mark it "counterfeit proof" on an edge. Send a one-page fact sheet.
5. Card Pirate Busters can "order" some of the items, and leave POSITIVE FB: "Great Seller. Thank You for EXPOSING The Counterfeit Proof SCAM." etc.
6. After the listings are up, immediately notify Ina Steiner at auctionbytes.com. She can run an editorial about sellers having to take measures to protect collectors "because EBAY cannot or will not." If the best happens and EBAY cancels your listings, you will be on every net blog and many collector blogs; maybe even a local TV or two.
////////////////
In the listing refer to, "Some online sellers are making and selling these counterfeits...blahblahblah..." Don't name any of the sellers.
Freakin' epic thread. Classic takedown of a woman/man/family who certainly deserved it.
Hey, if you're going to risk fraud charges, why not go for the big bucks, not '79 Topps baseball?! It's like auto theft - you get the same amount of jail time for stealing a Lamborghini as for stealing a Honda.
Alright Guys, Here is what I have, This guy (Trueman) is not on the Richmond Police Department. He may be on the Henrico County (Richmond) Police Department. In speaking with Richmond PD, they are actually telling/encouraging me to should file a police report with Chesterfield County PD (Midlothian VA). I do not have a personal relationship with anyone at Chesterfield PD, but they do purchase our lights as well, and my sales manager in this area has a strong relationship with this department. I need to decide if this is personally worth persuing on my end, as I have some professional involvement with this department.
Anyone up for filing a police report with Chesterfield County PD?
"...He may be on the Henrico County (Richmond) Police Department...."
/////////////////////////
That should be fairly easy for the guys at the Richmond Department to determine.
I think if a stranger calls a PD and asks if "so and so" is an officer, they might get no satisfactory response. Or, they might get a correct answer.
Clearly, one of the "persons" in the SCAM said they were "connected to the PD." That, in itself, is not a crime, even if it is untrue. BUT, using such an untruth in the furtherance of a SCAM is a crime.
If anybody lives in the area, it is probably appropriate to follow the trail to the end.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
MANY police depts sell the notion that the subject type of fraud is a "civil matter." MANY others, see it as "criminal." The size of the dept has, seemingly, little to do with how they view these matters; some little ones go after the crooks, and some big ones do nothing....and, it can be the other way, too.
I would not stop trying.
.............
Also, some ic3 complaints should be filed. Once the names get into the system, they continue to pop up when new complaints come in. This often spurs eventual action.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
I replied to her that fraud is a criminal matter that should be investigated by Law Enforcement and Ebay could care less because they make money off it too. Then I included the article about PAoutdoorsman with my reply.
<< <i>I replied to her that fraud is a criminal matter that should be investigated by Law Enforcement and Ebay could care less because they make money off it too. Then I included the article about PAoutdoorsman with my reply.
maybe that'll help >>
/////////////////////////////////////////////
When ever you tell the story, make sure to throw in the "she/he claims the spouse is a police officer." Eventually, that will/should make some honest PO angry.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
< Geez, WTF - here's the reply I got from the Police
Hello Mr. Lewis,
Thank you for emailing us. Have you reported the issue to eBay? They would be the ones to contact on this subject.
Sincerely,
Dionne Waugh, Public Affairs >>
Wow, that's ridiculous.
Sounds like "Dionne" doesn't want to be bothered...such apathy and/or ignorance is what internet scammers count on to skirt the law, unfortunately...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Geez, WTF - here's the reply I got from the Police
Hello Mr. Lewis,
Thank you for emailing us. Have you reported the issue to eBay? They would be the ones to contact on this subject.
Sincerely,
Dionne Waugh, Public Affairs >>
Hello Mr. Lewis,
All of our officers are currently occupied at our numerous speed traps. Since your complaint does not involve revenue to our department, we will unfortunately have to refer you back to ebay to settle the matter. However, the good news is that we are on track to meet our revenue quotas by the 25th of the month. If ebay does not satisfactorily resolve the matter by then, please feel free to check back with us at that time, and we will be happy to file some meaningless paperwork regarding your complaint.
LMAO - this moronette has decided to open a non-paying bidder dispute with me. Here's my response to it:
"It was brought to my attention that this is a pack resealer, buying lots of cards and wrappers using the same ID and then creating her own packs and calling them original. Too stupid to even use a different ID to run this scam. Please feel free to look at this person's prior purchases. This seller should be banned from Ebay and arrested. Last I checked, there was an ongoing police investigation into this seller. Very surprised that this seller would even bother reopening this can of worms."
What a dirtbag. Not surprising, though, since Trueman has been thumbing his nose while ripping people off for almost a decade now.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I got 3 unpaid item strikes today. Apperantly her other ID, jasontaliaferro, has more new freshly sealed packs and boxes for sale. She decided to get out of the pack sealing bidness for a while.
<< <i>I got 3 unpaid item strikes today. Apperantly her other ID, jasontaliaferro, has more new freshly sealed packs and boxes for sale. She decided to get out of the pack sealing bidness for a while. >>
//////
If you call EBAY and tell them yet another CRIMINAL is still operating on their site, they will remove the strikes.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
Trueman aka jasontaliaferro is back at it selling his garbage. How is this guy even still on ebay with a 96.2% FB rating? Didn't he also have more negs than this, couple from collectors on here that were removed by ebay? Ridiculous. Guess thieves have no problem with the new supposedly "stringent" requirements for ebay sellers.. Sad, really.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Comments
//////////////////////////////////
There is GREAT merit to your concerns and resulting position.
As a near-daily "victim" of the VeRO scheme, I can report that
when it is necessary EBAY can do a VERY good job of over-policing
the site by relying on a "trusted third-party."
In MANY instances, the VeRO reps are FAR less knowledgeable about
the products they represent than I am. Yet, under the system that
EBAY has willingly sanctioned and easily implemented, the VeRO
"opinion" ALWAYS prevails.
If a LEGITIMATE "memorabilia policing body" was established - and
accepted by EBAY - the problems would be greatly diminished. To
my knowledge, nobody has ever pitched the possibilty to EBAY T&S.
Listing takedowns would be temporary, pending PROOF that the
items were legit. VeRO's "determination and appeals" process is
cumbersome and can be lengthy. While it usually seems arbitrary -
and even preferentially targeted - it can be worked within if the
affected lister has patience and expertise.
MOST of the mistakes and hard-feelings caused by VeRO "unfairness"
could be avoided in memorabilia policing. If one examines the record
of reports made in this forum, it need only be asked, "How many
times has the collective opinion been wrong?," to determine the potential
viability of such a scheme.
<< <i>You know, I hear what all of you are saying, but I have to ask: how would ebay patrol these scammers? >>
A good start would to be require all single packs to be graded packs. I understand they may have made this requirement on some single cards such as the Mantle, Jordan and Gretzky RC's. This would do a dual purpose of ending the idiot "Hot Pack" auctions as well. Ebay wont do it since a lot of people may legitimately sell unopened product, but this would end a lot of the nonsense with single pack auctions.
/////////////////////////////////////////
Hopefully, it will NOT come to that.
MOST packs for sale are likely just fine; especially the cheap/just-for-fun ones
that help get folks interested in the hobby.
Third-Party participation is the answer to cleaning up the mess. It can be well
organized and quasi-official, OR it will remain vigilante-like.
The certification would have to be by PSA or GAI
If a person sells packs not certified then it should be noted somehow that they could have been searched.
Not sure what year this should start at, maybe all packs that are 20 years old or better?
Steve
Setting a cut off date gets more complicated when you toss in the variation within the other 3 sports and let's not forget non-sport where many of the rare late 50's and 60's packs command big dollars.
Rick
For those that bought this sellers Buy it now items and immed left feedback, I image those comments will be removed when seller contacts eBay about it. That's a clear violation of feedback rules. Should have bought the item, paid, got it, left the negs then file with PP as SNAD for refund. At least this way you would have definite proof in hand. I understand it was done to stop the seller immediately but fear it will backfire on you. If seller has the gull to contact eBay about it, I'd image they would have to remove it per their TOS. I wouldn't have said anything to the seller about the packs being resealed before receiving them either as they most likely have some unsealed packs for buyers with such inquiries.
Great looking out for the hobby! Wonder how many buyers have been mislead by this seller.
<< <i>So Steve, would your logic apply to unopened boxes as well? And if so, what does this do for BBCExchange? Would this require him to slab all his product through GAI? Not meaning to sound combative, but this could put a strain on some honest sellers of unopened material.
>>
I know steve sells some of his product on ebay, but to be honest, I think with marketing of just a few items, it would draw most of the traffic to his site anyway. Its the small dealers who happen to have an extra case or two of something that would get killed, but eBay has shown that no system is perfect.
The last time the chrome proff guy was a thread topic, I believe the cards he was selling were not worth much and not selling for much. If I remember correctly, we figured after all his fees and shipping costs, he was only making less than a dollar per card in most cases. Seems lot a lot of work for a buck or two.
1. Make a bunch of fake proofs.
2. List them on EBAY as: "Counterfeit Chrome Proof 'Player' Consumer Safety Instructions"
(Offer FREE shipping and use a free subtitle: "Consumer Defense Against FAKE Chorme Proofs")
Make sure your keywords include those the SCAMSTER is using.
2a: In the listing-body, explain the SCAM in detail.
3. Start listings at one-cent.
4. Send the buyer a fake example - mark it "counterfeit proof" on an edge. Send a one-page
fact sheet.
5. Card Pirate Busters can "order" some of the items, and leave POSITIVE FB:
"Great Seller. Thank You for EXPOSING The Counterfeit Proof SCAM." etc.
6. After the listings are up, immediately notify Ina Steiner at auctionbytes.com. She can run an editorial
about sellers having to take measures to protect collectors "because EBAY cannot or will not." If the
best happens and EBAY cancels your listings, you will be on every net blog and many collector blogs;
maybe even a local TV or two.
////////////////
In the listing refer to, "Some online sellers are making and selling these counterfeits...blahblahblah..."
Don't name any of the sellers.
//////////////
In a few weeks the SCAM should abate.
Repeat the listings if/when necessary.
//////////////////////
//////////////////////
////////////////////////
A similar program could be launched to fight the pack-resealers.
Hey, if you're going to risk fraud charges, why not go for the big bucks, not '79 Topps baseball?! It's like auto theft - you get the same amount of jail time for stealing a Lamborghini as for stealing a Honda.
Donovan
Hip Hip Hooray for Storm!!!!!!!!
Always top notch Advice!!!!!
Neil
Steve
<< <i>So, was the guy a cop?
Steve >>
////////////////////////////
I am sure we ALL eagerly await the report on that.
cus bought item with the intent of receiving them and then doing a chargeback. listing cancelled by ebay. trust and safety notified and investigating.
Seller FYI you wouldn't make a pimple on a Good Seller's a**.
<< <i>So, was the guy a cop? >>
Yes. Here is a picture of him in uniform.
Anyone up for filing a police report with Chesterfield County PD?
/////////////////////////
That should be fairly easy for the guys at the Richmond Department to determine.
I think if a stranger calls a PD and asks if "so and so" is an officer, they might get
no satisfactory response. Or, they might get a correct answer.
Clearly, one of the "persons" in the SCAM said they were "connected to the PD."
That, in itself, is not a crime, even if it is untrue. BUT, using such an untruth in
the furtherance of a SCAM is a crime.
If anybody lives in the area, it is probably appropriate to follow the trail to the end.
Hello Mr. Lewis,
Thank you for emailing us. Have you reported the issue to eBay? They would be the ones to contact on this subject.
Sincerely,
Dionne Waugh, Public Affairs
MANY police depts sell the notion that the subject type of
fraud is a "civil matter." MANY others, see it as "criminal."
The size of the dept has, seemingly, little to do with how
they view these matters; some little ones go after the
crooks, and some big ones do nothing....and, it can be
the other way, too.
I would not stop trying.
.............
Also, some ic3 complaints should be filed. Once the names
get into the system, they continue to pop up when new
complaints come in. This often spurs eventual action.
maybe that'll help
<< <i>I replied to her that fraud is a criminal matter that should be investigated by Law Enforcement and Ebay could care less because they make money off it too. Then I included the article about PAoutdoorsman with my reply.
maybe that'll help >>
/////////////////////////////////////////////
When ever you tell the story, make sure to throw in the "she/he claims the spouse is a police officer."
Eventually, that will/should make some honest PO angry.
<< <i>Geez, WTF - here's the reply I got from the Police
Hello Mr. Lewis,
Thank you for emailing us. Have you reported the issue to eBay? They would be the ones to contact on this subject.
Sincerely,
Dionne Waugh, Public Affairs >>
Wow, that's ridiculous.
Hello Mr. Lewis,
Thank you for emailing us. Have you reported the issue to eBay? They would be the ones to contact on this subject.
Sincerely,
Dionne Waugh, Public Affairs >>
Wow, that's ridiculous.
Sounds like "Dionne" doesn't want to be bothered...such apathy and/or ignorance is what internet scammers count on to skirt the law, unfortunately...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Geez, WTF - here's the reply I got from the Police
Hello Mr. Lewis,
Thank you for emailing us. Have you reported the issue to eBay? >>
The correct response:
Yes, I have reported it to eBay. Unfortunately, they are so busy with other police work, that I have decided to throw some business your way today.
Very nice.
Looking for Charlie (Charley) Maxwell cards.
Good one.
lol
Steve
Resealed 1972 Wax Pack
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Geez, WTF - here's the reply I got from the Police
Hello Mr. Lewis,
Thank you for emailing us. Have you reported the issue to eBay? They would be the ones to contact on this subject.
Sincerely,
Dionne Waugh, Public Affairs >>
Hello Mr. Lewis,
All of our officers are currently occupied at our numerous speed traps. Since your complaint does not involve revenue to our department, we will unfortunately have to refer you back to ebay to settle the matter. However, the good news is that we are on track to meet our revenue quotas by the 25th of the month. If ebay does not satisfactorily resolve the matter by then, please feel free to check back with us at that time, and we will be happy to file some meaningless paperwork regarding your complaint.
Sincerely,
"It was brought to my attention that this is a pack resealer, buying lots of cards and wrappers using the same ID and then creating her own packs and calling them original. Too stupid to even use a different ID to run this scam. Please feel free to look at this person's prior purchases. This seller should be banned from Ebay and arrested. Last I checked, there was an ongoing police investigation into this seller. Very surprised that this seller would even bother reopening this can of worms."
LOL - that dirty douche
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I got 3 unpaid item strikes today. Apperantly her other ID, jasontaliaferro, has more new freshly sealed packs and boxes for sale. She decided to get out of the pack sealing bidness for a while. >>
//////
If you call EBAY and tell them yet another CRIMINAL is still operating
on their site, they will remove the strikes.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.