NEWP,Monster Black and White Seated Proof Dollar
bestclser1
Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
Pics dont do this justice.
Great coins are not cheap,and cheap coins are not great!
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Comments
DAYUM !!!! That is a BEE-YOU-TEE-FULL Coin!!!!!
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
<< <i>That one is gorgeous. It should have a gold sticker. >>
I was amazed that it wasnt in a 65 holder.Thanks Robec,agree completely.
<< <i>I was amazed that it wasnt in a 65 holder. >>
That's a real screamer. The distractions in the fields are probably what held the grade down.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>That one is gorgeous. It should have a gold sticker. >>
The ARC images tend to make these proof coins look two or three grades higher than the holder would suggest. It does appear to be a very nice coin.
siliconvalleycoins.com
JJ
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Ray
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
<< <i>The black & white look is beautiful. It appears to be correctly graded, though. There are too many hairlines on that coin for it to 5. >>
Actually in hand there are VERY few hairlines,and the reverse is a 66+.JMHO.
<< <i>And for the grade, this is a bargain! >>
Two months ago the coin sold at Heritage for $8,625.00. Link to the coin at Heritage.
I see it was on that web site for 12k dunno what you ended up paying but raising the price ~33% and calling it a bargain makes me sad.
<< <i>
<< <i>The black & white look is beautiful. It appears to be correctly graded, though. There are too many hairlines on that coin for it to 5. >>
Actually in hand there are VERY few hairlines,and the reverse is a 66+.JMHO.
This is something that I just don't get. Touting the low pops on cam/ultracam 19th century proofs. Many, many more coins would get these designation if they were dipped and stripped. I prefer them with originality. Even modest toning will likely prevent a coin from getting an ultracam designation. Buying one, stripping it, and getting it UC'd is not an upgrade, IMHO, it just kills the coin for me. I wish that the market would stop placing a premium on coins like this so that people stopping dipping them hoping for a cam designation. Plus dipping makes the breaks in the frost very distracting. Forget the lines in the field, I think that the frost breaks limit the grade here. Even if the field were super-clean, I don't think that it would ever 5, and I doubt that it would cross as a 4. Like I said, I just don't get it.
merse
I think I need to change my britches, now.
<< <i>
<< <i>And for the grade, this is a bargain! >>
Two months ago the coin sold at Heritage for $8,625.00. Link to the coin at Heritage.
I see it was on that web site for 12k dunno what you ended up paying but raising the price ~33% and calling it a bargain makes me sad.
I think 33% is quite reasonable. I think we forget sometimes that dealers have expenses as well. In almost any other business that isn't high volume, 33% would be a gift. In fact, it you factor in cost of doing business, I would think net profit on that coin is likely no more than in the mid teens. That said, if we assume a 15% net, 1,000,000 would have to be sold to make 150,000 in a year. I think most dealers don't sell $1 mil worth of inventory, and I'd also bet the 15% net margin is generous.
<< <i>I think 33% is quite reasonable. I think we forget sometimes that dealers have expenses as well. In almost any other business that isn't high volume, 33% would be a gift. In fact, it you factor in cost of doing business, I would think net profit on that coin is likely no more than in the mid teens. That said, if we assume a 15% net, 1,000,000 would have to be sold to make 150,000 in a year. I think most dealers don't sell $1 mil worth of inventory, and I'd also bet the 15% net margin is generous. >>
I dont care if a dealer marks something up 50% thats their business but dont tell me by my paying $3,500 more for something that was purchased less than two months ago is getting a bargain.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>And for the grade, this is a bargain! >>
Two months ago the coin sold at Heritage for $8,625.00. Link to the coin at Heritage.
I see it was on that web site for 12k dunno what you ended up paying but raising the price ~33% and calling it a bargain makes me sad.
I think 33% is quite reasonable. I think we forget sometimes that dealers have expenses as well. In almost any other business that isn't high volume, 33% would be a gift. In fact, it you factor in cost of doing business, I would think net profit on that coin is likely no more than in the mid teens. That said, if we assume a 15% net, 1,000,000 would have to be sold to make 150,000 in a year. I think most dealers don't sell $1 mil worth of inventory, and I'd also bet the 15% net margin is generous. >>
I do not believe that 33% is reasonable in this economy.
Be aware that competition can come in the back door at any time at a 15% profit
margin and destroy a business model. I believe that a smart dealer will protect against this
by sharpening his position in the market and slowly lowering his margin to the 15-20% range, more
in line with todays changing marketing climate. This should be done sooner rather than later.
Also....most dealers would go out of business on a average 15% gross retail margin. Would that really be good for the market as a whole?
<< <i>
<< <i>I think 33% is quite reasonable. I think we forget sometimes that dealers have expenses as well. In almost any other business that isn't high volume, 33% would be a gift. In fact, it you factor in cost of doing business, I would think net profit on that coin is likely no more than in the mid teens. That said, if we assume a 15% net, 1,000,000 would have to be sold to make 150,000 in a year. I think most dealers don't sell $1 mil worth of inventory, and I'd also bet the 15% net margin is generous. >>
I dont care if a dealer marks something up 50% thats their business but dont tell me by my paying $3,500 more for something that was purchased less than two months ago is getting a bargain. >>
I have always had a hard time paying a large mark-up for a coin that recently sold in an auction. I am comfortable with 15%, give or take a few, and depending on the price point of the coin. If they bought the coin at for $860 and asked $1200, I would be far more willing.
OTOH, Pinnacle has a couple PCGS Proof DCAM 64 with motto silver dollars on their site for nearly $16,000, so maybe $12,000 is a bargain.
<< <i>Also....most dealers would go out of business on a average 15% gross retail margin. Would that really be good for the market as a whole? >>
It would break the market into 2 levels. You would have your niche players that could get their 33% margin
based on service and dedication to their clientèle and you would get the larger leaner operations that actually
offered a competitive playing field for the average collector.
Look at the rest of our marketplace.
I want to buy a plasma TV. There is a local retailer that charges 10-15% higher than the discounters in my area, yet
they are always busy and do very well with their professionalism and their service. They deserve the extra money they charge.
But there are the discounters that will sell me the same sets at a lower price point with less service. My choice my call.
This industry has taken out the mid level players who charged a lot and gave a little...maybe who would sell a refurbished set that
really wasn't serviced too well.
The coin industry could learn a big lesson.....and they will.
<< <i>
<< <i>And for the grade, this is a bargain! >>
Two months ago the coin sold at Heritage for $8,625.00. Link to the coin at Heritage.
I see it was on that web site for 12k dunno what you ended up paying but raising the price ~33% and calling it a bargain makes me sad.
I saw the same thing,and ARC did not buy the coin at that auction.Would have loved the coin at 8650,but what i paid was fine for me.Also find a comparable one in hand,i cant.Much nicer than the PCGS coin of same date and grade i could have had. ARC are definitely a class act and one of the good guys.
<< <i>
<< <i>Also....most dealers would go out of business on a average 15% gross retail margin. Would that really be good for the market as a whole? >>
It would break the market into 2 levels. You would have your niche players that could get their 33% margin
based on service and dedication to their clientèle and you would get the larger leaner operations that actually
offered a competitive playing field for the average collector.
Look at the rest of our marketplace.
I want to buy a plasma TV. There is a local retailer that charges 10-15% higher than the discounters in my area, yet
they are always busy and do very well with their professionalism and their service. They deserve the extra money they charge.
But there are the discounters that will sell me the same sets at a lower price point with less service. My choice my call.
This industry has taken out the mid level players who charged a lot and gave a little...maybe who would sell a refurbished set that
really wasn't serviced too well.
The coin industry could learn a big lesson.....and they will. >>
Good point, JR. When I bought my home theater equipment, I could have gone to the Big Box retailer with my Amazon quotes and beaten them to death with pricing data. Instead, I called a highly-reputed niche contractor who is known to be expensive but also known to provide extremely good advice, service, and support. I felt that I needed the bells and whistles, and I have taken advantage of the excellent service on multiple occasions. Certainly, in this area, you get what you pay for.
With coins, there is a certain degree of commodization (is that a real word?), and many collectors feel that dealers stand in the way of their ability to get coins at a good price. For items like recently released mint products and other generics, this may be the case. However, for other areas, dealers can provide excellent advice and service and access to material that is not otherwise generally available and deserve to be paid for this.
Mintage of only 600 coins - POP 2/3 with only 21 being designated as Deep Cameo between both services - WOW, WOW, WOW!!!! What a PQ MONSTER! Black and white making it look like a modern medal! So frosty and white devices that drip out of the holder, you WON’T believe your eyes. The mirrors are SUPER deep and JET-BLAC - No Flaws that are holding back from Gem condition if you ask me… This is THE BEST LOOKING proof dollar I’ve seen in years! Simply irresistible once you hold this in your hand. I GAURANTEE you won’t be disappointed with this. It’s got more eye appeal then any other proof dollar out there in the market! And for the grade, this is a bargain!
I normally steer away from hyped advertising like this. If this were the best looking PF seated dollar out there, it would not have sold for <$9K at auction. And that's a pretty strong statement considering there are dozens of wonderful looking PF65, 66's, 67's, 68's and yes, even 69's already sitting in holders that are available. If the seller meant to say this is the best PF64 UC on the market, that could have been a better way to say it. And if it were a legit 65 shot coin it should have brought much more by the crack out fraternity considering a 65UC is probably well over $20K.
roadrunner