Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
As far as "meh" pedigrees, I've been seriously underwhelmed with the coins from the Jules Reiver collection. I own one of the pedigreed pieces, and it's "ok" nothing more.
<< <i>For Southern gold, the Three Rivers Collection. >>
Hehe...we'll have to put you two in a ring with some boxing gloves. The Forum Fights, live on pay per view. >>
That would not work. Both of us are talkers, not fighters. >>
Speak for yourself. Longacre is a lover, not a talker or a fighter.
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
I'm going to say James A. Stack - nearly all of the coins I've seen with that pedigree have been terrific. And while the name is known among the cognoscenti, it is not nearly as famous the Norwebs, Garretts and Eliasbergs, etc.
<< <i>I think it would be great to post some coins with these non-famous pedigrees.
I have one or two that I'll post later.
If you have any, please show them to us. >>
I'm going to say James A. Stack - nearly all of the coins I've seen with that pedigree have been terrific. And while the name is known among the cognoscenti, it is not nearly as famous the Norwebs, Garretts and Eliasbergs, etc.
That was all a good set-up for my only James Stack collection coin:
That's a nice coin, RYK. In the brief time that you were not the Dirty Gold Man, you made some nice purchases.
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>I'm going to say James A. Stack - nearly all of the coins I've seen with that pedigree have been terrific. And while the name is known among the cognoscenti, it is not nearly as famous the Norwebs, Garretts and Eliasbergs, etc.
IMHO, pedigree or provenance connects you to the previous collectors that owned specific coins, so it is more about the collectors and their searches, availability during their collecting era, etc.
John Pittman and Jules Reiver were long time (>50 years) collectors. Jules strived for die varieties and die states. Obviously, some will be nice for the date. Some will be less desirable for the date or variety, but don't forget to remember that many of these die states may not exist in any other condition.
Harry Bass also collected by die variety, but he wasn't at it as long and there was virtually nothing other than a few Breen monographs to even go by. Harry discovered many by himself and John Dannreuther has put these together with his own findings in a deluxe catalogue.
Jeff Browning (Dallas Bank collection) could very well have been the "Eliasberg" continuation, but unfortunately he passed away in his mid-forties. He was an extremely enthusiastic collector who would have grown into a numismatist. He had a real collecting gene present.
There are many other great collectors that specialized in various series that have not been well known, but numismatically, they will be always appreciated.
PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows. I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
<< <i>John Pittman and Jules Reiver were long time (>50 years) collectors. Jules strived for die varieties and die states. Obviously, some will be nice for the date. Some will be less desirable for the date or variety, but don't forget to remember that many of these die states may not exist in any other condition. >>
I agree, but I also believe that what many people consider to be NGC's liberal grading of these coins has contributed to the notion that they 'weren't that nice'.
<< <i>John Pittman and Jules Reiver were long time (>50 years) collectors. Jules strived for die varieties and die states. Obviously, some will be nice for the date. Some will be less desirable for the date or variety, but don't forget to remember that many of these die states may not exist in any other condition. >>
I agree, but I also believe that what many people consider to be NGC's liberal grading of these coins has contributed to the notion that they 'weren't that nice'. >>
Well said!
I didn't pay much attention to Pittman, but I did and have paid fairly close attention to Reiver's copper... I think Jules was more focused on variety than quality when it came to his large cents (not that there's anything wrong with that!), and (as you point out) NGC's liberal grading made things worse.
Bottom line: I saw very few "lookers" in his collection, but how NGC handled it will always leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Respectfully...Mike
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
<< <i>For southern gold, North Georgia, Alabama, Pinnacle, Green Pond, and Duke's Creek were all important, relatively recent collections. There are a couple others, but my mind is blanking. >>
How about:
Ashland Chestatee Dallas Bank Bass - maybe not, he's kind of famous. >>
I would add:
Stecher - gold pulled from circulation in 1933, much of it southern
<< <i>For southern gold, North Georgia, Alabama, Pinnacle, Green Pond, and Duke's Creek were all important, relatively recent collections. There are a couple others, but my mind is blanking. >>
How about:
Ashland Chestatee Dallas Bank Bass - maybe not, he's kind of famous. >>
I would add:
Stecher - gold pulled from circulation in 1933, much of it southern >>
Ashland is not considered to be high-end.
Chestatee was the collection of duplicates of Duke's Creek, and these were very high-end.
Dallas Bank was a more general gold collection. There was much more emphasis on $20's and proof gold than southern gold.
Bass had it all, but I think his real specialty was the early gold. Plus, he was extremely famous.
Stecher was a mixed bag of stuff pulled from circulation, not a collection put together lovingly by a specialist. The only reason we know about it is that Heritage auctioned it recently, and there are Stecher-labeled PCGS slabs.
Chestatee was the collection of duplicates of Duke's Creek, and these were very high-end.
Dallas Bank was a more general gold collection. There was much more emphasis on $20's and proof gold than southern gold.
Bass had it all, but I think his real specialty was the early gold. Plus, he was extremely famous.
Stecher was a mixed bag of stuff pulled from circulation, not a collection put together lovingly by a specialist. The only reason we know about it is that Heritage auctioned it recently, and there are Stecher-labeled PCGS slabs. >>
I find this kind of opinion information about different pedigrees very interesting.
Perhaps the most unknown collector, with high end material, from the 20th century was Joseph H. Spray.
At one time in the 1950's, he was a president of the New York Numismatic Club.
If you have old copies of The Numismatist from the 1940s-1958 (when they stopped reporting such things), check out the monthly meetings of the NYNC and see what Spray brought to the meetings.
His collection was not sold at auction, but it probably contributed to the foundations of many of the names already mentioned in this thread.
PM me if you are looking for U.S. auction catalogs
<< <i>Perhaps the most unknown collector, with high end material, from the 20th century was Joseph H. Spray.
At one time in the 1950's, he was a president of the New York Numismatic Club.
If you have old copies of The Numismatist from the 1940s-1958 (when they stopped reporting such things), check out the monthly meetings of the NYNC and see what Spray brought to the meetings.
His collection was not sold at auction, but it probably contributed to the foundations of many of the names already mentioned in this thread. >>
I wish I had copies of the Numismatist from back then. What types of coins did he collect?
<< <i>Interesting...I knew a Dr. Robert Hinkley. Do you have any more information on him? >>
According to the auction catalog, Dr. Hinkley lived and worked in Groveton, New Hampshire. He retired from his medical practice in 1984 and died in 2001.
According to our own Pistareen, who helped catalog Dr. Hinkley's collection - "Dr. Hinkley was the leading collector of Vermont coppers of his era. He owned the Stickley-Bowers Ryder-1, for instance (the finest known, by some accounting) and was considered an expert for decades. He was a small town physician, quiet about his collecting, but known in the field. The number of Vermont coppers in his collection...is totally unparalleled in American numismatic history to my knowledge."
Comments
<< <i>I disagree. I think that Mike is just setting me up to lowball me out of my Eliasberg, Norweb, and Garrett coins.
Foiled again!
Rothenberger for commems.
I don't believe there ever was a Dr. Benson!
K
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
<< <i>How about the worst non famous Pedigree? Binion perhaps? Overgraded to the max in my opinion. Also Omaha bank Hoard. >>
Battle Creek and Battle Ax Morgans
Wells Fargo Saints
Longacre Collection of Southern Gold
<< <i>
<< <i>How about the worst non famous Pedigree? >>
Longacre Collection of Southern Gold
<< <i>MOC. >>
What is MOC?
<< <i>
<< <i>MOC. >>
What is MOC? >>
ManofCoins
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>For Southern gold, the Three Rivers Collection.
Hehe...we'll have to put you two in a ring with some boxing gloves. The Forum Fights, live on pay per view.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>
<< <i>For Southern gold, the Three Rivers Collection.
Hehe...we'll have to put you two in a ring with some boxing gloves. The Forum Fights, live on pay per view. >>
That would not work. Both of us are talkers, not fighters.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>For Southern gold, the Three Rivers Collection.
Hehe...we'll have to put you two in a ring with some boxing gloves. The Forum Fights, live on pay per view. >>
That would not work. Both of us are talkers, not fighters. >>
Speak for yourself. Longacre is a lover, not a talker or a fighter.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
JA
I have one or two that I'll post later.
If you have any, please show them to us.
<< <i>I think it would be great to post some coins with these non-famous pedigrees.
I have one or two that I'll post later.
If you have any, please show them to us.
I'm going to say James A. Stack - nearly all of the coins I've seen with that pedigree have been terrific. And while the name is known among the cognoscenti, it is not nearly as famous the Norwebs, Garretts and Eliasbergs, etc.
That was all a good set-up for my only James Stack collection coin:
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>I'm going to say James A. Stack - nearly all of the coins I've seen with that pedigree have been terrific. And while the name is known among the cognoscenti, it is not nearly as famous the Norwebs, Garretts and Eliasbergs, etc.
JA >>
I was just gonna say that!
John Pittman and Jules Reiver were long time (>50 years) collectors. Jules strived for die varieties and die states. Obviously, some will be nice for the date. Some will be less desirable for the date or variety, but don't forget to remember that many of these die states may not exist in any other condition.
Harry Bass also collected by die variety, but he wasn't at it as long and there was virtually nothing other than a few Breen monographs to even go by. Harry discovered many by himself and John Dannreuther has put these together with his own findings in a deluxe catalogue.
Jeff Browning (Dallas Bank collection) could very well have been the "Eliasberg" continuation, but unfortunately he passed away in his mid-forties. He was an extremely enthusiastic collector who would have grown into a numismatist. He had a real collecting gene present.
There are many other great collectors that specialized in various series that have not been well known, but numismatically, they will be always appreciated.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
<< <i>
For the record, I would absolutely, positively lowball the heck out of you for that coin.
<< <i>John Pittman and Jules Reiver were long time (>50 years) collectors. Jules strived for die varieties and die states. Obviously, some will be nice for the date. Some will be less desirable for the date or variety, but don't forget to remember that many of these die states may not exist in any other condition. >>
I agree, but I also believe that what many people consider to be NGC's liberal grading of these coins has contributed to the notion that they 'weren't that nice'.
<< <i>
<< <i>
For the record, I would absolutely, positively lowball the heck out of you for that coin.
Lowball away.
Except I thought it was famous.
<< <i>Poole! and Labute!
Hey Spooly!
Haven't seen you since Hitler was a Corporal.
Ray
<< <i>
<< <i>John Pittman and Jules Reiver were long time (>50 years) collectors. Jules strived for die varieties and die states. Obviously, some will be nice for the date. Some will be less desirable for the date or variety, but don't forget to remember that many of these die states may not exist in any other condition. >>
I agree, but I also believe that what many people consider to be NGC's liberal grading of these coins has contributed to the notion that they 'weren't that nice'. >>
Well said!
I didn't pay much attention to Pittman, but I did and have paid fairly close attention to Reiver's copper... I think Jules was more focused on variety than quality when it came to his large cents (not that there's anything wrong with that!), and (as you point out) NGC's liberal grading made things worse.
Bottom line: I saw very few "lookers" in his collection, but how NGC handled it will always leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Respectfully...Mike
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
For the record, I would absolutely, positively lowball the heck out of you for that coin.
Lowball away.
I'll have to work on you a bit first...
Don't you really want a fully struck one?
Wouldn't an example with some mellowed red look better in your collection?
That die crack is really distracting to the eye.
I think I see some blue in hidden areas, and you know what they say about blue on copper.
<< <i>I'll have to work on you a bit first...
Don't you really want a fully struck one?
Wouldn't an example with some mellowed red look better in your collection?
That die crack is really distracting to the eye.
I think I see some blue in hidden areas, and you know what they say about blue on copper.
<< <i>
<< <i>For southern gold, North Georgia, Alabama, Pinnacle, Green Pond, and Duke's Creek were all important, relatively recent collections. There are a couple others, but my mind is blanking. >>
How about:
Ashland
Chestatee
Dallas Bank
Bass - maybe not, he's kind of famous. >>
I would add:
Stecher - gold pulled from circulation in 1933, much of it southern
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Sure, Ford had a lot of French billon coinage, but Vlack wrote the book!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>For southern gold, North Georgia, Alabama, Pinnacle, Green Pond, and Duke's Creek were all important, relatively recent collections. There are a couple others, but my mind is blanking. >>
How about:
Ashland
Chestatee
Dallas Bank
Bass - maybe not, he's kind of famous. >>
I would add:
Stecher - gold pulled from circulation in 1933, much of it southern >>
Ashland is not considered to be high-end.
Chestatee was the collection of duplicates of Duke's Creek, and these were very high-end.
Dallas Bank was a more general gold collection. There was much more emphasis on $20's and proof gold than southern gold.
Bass had it all, but I think his real specialty was the early gold. Plus, he was extremely famous.
Stecher was a mixed bag of stuff pulled from circulation, not a collection put together lovingly by a specialist. The only reason we know about it is that Heritage auctioned it recently, and there are Stecher-labeled PCGS slabs.
<< <i>Ashland is not considered to be high-end.
Chestatee was the collection of duplicates of Duke's Creek, and these were very high-end.
Dallas Bank was a more general gold collection. There was much more emphasis on $20's and proof gold than southern gold.
Bass had it all, but I think his real specialty was the early gold. Plus, he was extremely famous.
Stecher was a mixed bag of stuff pulled from circulation, not a collection put together lovingly by a specialist. The only reason we know about it is that Heritage auctioned it recently, and there are Stecher-labeled PCGS slabs. >>
I find this kind of opinion information about different pedigrees very interesting.
At one time in the 1950's, he was a president of the New York Numismatic Club.
If you have old copies of The Numismatist from the 1940s-1958 (when they stopped reporting such things), check out the monthly meetings of the NYNC and see what Spray brought to the meetings.
His collection was not sold at auction, but it probably contributed to the foundations of many of the names already mentioned in this thread.
<< <i>Ex: Dr. Robert I. Hinkley Collection of Vermont Coppers >>
I'm looking at that auction catalogue right now! We just bought the 1851 seated dollar plated in that catalogue from the John C. Wong collection.
<< <i>Perhaps the most unknown collector, with high end material, from the 20th century was Joseph H. Spray.
At one time in the 1950's, he was a president of the New York Numismatic Club.
If you have old copies of The Numismatist from the 1940s-1958 (when they stopped reporting such things), check out the monthly meetings of the NYNC and see what Spray brought to the meetings.
His collection was not sold at auction, but it probably contributed to the foundations of many of the names already mentioned in this thread. >>
I wish I had copies of the Numismatist from back then. What types of coins did he collect?
<< <i>
<< <i>Ex: Dr. Robert I. Hinkley Collection of Vermont Coppers >>
I'm looking at that auction catalogue right now! We just bought the 1851 seated dollar plated in that catalogue from the John C. Wong collection. >>
The coin I posted was lot 2361.
<< <i>Very true about imo a lot of Reiver's half dimes, I haven't yet seen one that I liked, >>
Boy I sure did. This one...
<< <i>
<< <i>Ex: Dr. Robert I. Hinkley Collection of Vermont Coppers >>
I'm looking at that auction catalogue right now! We just bought the 1851 seated dollar plated in that catalogue from the John C. Wong collection. >>
Interesting...I knew a Dr. Robert Hinkley. Do you have any more information on him?
<< <i>Interesting...I knew a Dr. Robert Hinkley. Do you have any more information on him? >>
According to the auction catalog, Dr. Hinkley lived and worked in Groveton, New Hampshire. He retired from his medical practice in 1984 and died in 2001.
According to our own Pistareen, who helped catalog Dr. Hinkley's collection -
"Dr. Hinkley was the leading collector of Vermont coppers of his era. He owned the Stickley-Bowers Ryder-1, for instance (the finest known, by some accounting) and was considered an expert for decades. He was a small town physician, quiet about his collecting, but known in the field. The number of Vermont coppers in his collection...is totally unparalleled in American numismatic history to my knowledge."
<< <i>
<< <i>Very true about imo a lot of Reiver's half dimes, I haven't yet seen one that I liked, >>
Boy I sure did. This one...
don't forget about this one!
Who is John Galt?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
For the record, I would absolutely, positively lowball the heck out of you for that coin.
Lowball away.
I'll have to work on you a bit first...
Don't you really want a fully struck one?
Wouldn't an example with some mellowed red look better in your collection?
That die crack is really distracting to the eye.
I think I see some blue in hidden areas, and you know what they say about blue on copper.
I still wish I had this LC ......
Naftzger from Flynn Sr. in 1964, and BB'd by PCGS as AC.
This is the Noyes plate coin for 37N13; EAC 65, & RB, or Sea-green and champagne-bronze to be exact. I just wish MG could image this coin.