<< <i>Because they were experimental, it is unlikely they were struck in 1965. >>
Huh? Are you aware of the fact that the 1964 dies were used in all production until only a couple days before the close of 1965? The 1965 dies were only in production in 1965 for a couple days in December and then for over half of 1966.
I was alive at the time and am aware. I believe the SMS were struck from different die pairs than business strikes. They are certainly different, special, and probably presentation pieces. I am not at all certain that they have anything to do with 1965-1967 SMS, as PCGS believes. NGC calls them specimens. They easily might have been struck to adjoin the 10-15 1964 peace dollars rumored to have escaped melting destruction.
<< <i>Because they were experimental, it is unlikely they were struck in 1965. >>
Huh? Are you aware of the fact that the 1964 dies were used in all production until only a couple days before the close of 1965? The 1965 dies were only in production in 1965 for a couple days in December and then for over half of 1966. >>
Indeed! There were even 1964 dimes being struck into February of 1966.
<< <i>I was alive at the time and am aware. I believe the SMS were struck from different die pairs than business strikes. They are certainly different, special, and probably presentation pieces. I am not at all certain that they have anything to do with 1965-1967 SMS, as PCGS believes. NGC calls them specimens. They easily might have been struck to adjoin the 10-15 1964 peace dollars rumored to have escaped melting destruction. >>
This might explain the way these came to the general attention of collectors seemingly already distributed. If memory serves there were unequal numbers of each coin available in the early '90's auction when most of us learned of them for the first time. One was reported to have been found in a bucket of junk silver.
Set aside the question of whether any 1964 Peace dollars escaped by assuming that some did avoid the melting pot. The scenario outlined above that the 1964 SMS coins were minted to (somehow) accompany the Peace dollars still seems odd. Why bother minting these coins to accompany the Peace dollars; why not simply acquire a few (legal!) 1964 proof coins and then distribute a proof coin/Peace dollar set? One might say that a Peace dollar would look "odd" next to proof coins. But I can recall nothing that suggests any Peace dollars were struck with a special finish, so the presumably mint state Peace dollars would look odd when paired with either the SMS coins or proof coins.
Personally, before I give much credence to the idea that the SMS coins were minted to accompany Peace dollars, I'd like to see some more evidence than a post which correlates the two. That is not to say that I entirely dismiss the suggestion but it is to say that I am skeptical.
<< <i>I believe these were presentation sets that may have originally included peace dollars. >>
First time I heard this argument / idea. The 1964 SMS bore no mintmark, the 1964 Peace Dollar was struck at Denver. During that time period, the mint did not mix branch mint products. If you bought a 1964 mint set, the "D" were all in one sleeve and the "P" (no mint marks) were in another. I find it hard to believe that the mint would have made the 1964 SMS with the "D" Dollar, if they did then the penney through half dollar would also have the "D" mint mark on the 1964 SMS coins.
Set aside the question of whether any 1964 Peace dollars escaped by assuming that some did avoid the melting pot. The scenario outlined above that the 1964 SMS coins were minted to (somehow) accompany the Peace dollars still seems odd. Why bother minting these coins to accompany the Peace dollars; why not simply acquire a few (legal!) 1964 proof coins and then distribute a proof coin/Peace dollar set? One might say that a Peace dollar would look "odd" next to proof coins. But I can recall nothing that suggests any Peace dollars were struck with a special finish, so the presumably mint state Peace dollars would look odd when paired with either the SMS coins or proof coins.
Personally, before I give much credence to the idea that the SMS coins were minted to accompany Peace dollars, I'd like to see some more evidence than a post which correlates the two. That is not to say that I entirely dismiss the suggestion but it is to say that I am skeptical. >>
<< <i>First time I heard this argument / idea. The 1964 SMS bore no mintmark, the 1964 Peace Dollar was struck at Denver. During that time period, the mint did not mix branch mint products. If you bought a 1964 mint set, the "D" were all in one sleeve and the "P" (no mint marks) were in another. I find it hard to believe that the mint would have made the 1964 SMS with the "D" Dollar, if they did then the penney through half dollar would also have the "D" mint mark on the 1964 SMS coins. >>
Good points.
I still think these were probably the result of of testing for the '65 SMS coins. They certainly are mysterious.
I'd trade the wife and/or a dog or two for the 1964 SMS Jefferson in PCGS SMS67FS... any takers? Probably not since I'd be getting rid of three headaches all at once.
32.5K for the entire 64 SMS set doesn't sound unreasonable (if you have that kind of play change) for a set you're thinking of keeping for 20 years, the possibility of another 20 sets miraculously showing up have to be slim... If I had the change, it would be mine already.
Steve
U.S. Air Force Security Forces Retired
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
I think, in the long run, that price will prove to be an absolute bargain. I believe I have 15%-20% of that (or somewhere around there) in just the cent and quarter. My cent is better by a point, but the quarter is only MS64. These are more comparable to patterns than to all those special finish Mint promotions of recent years. Outsanding rarity. Like all coins, the price settles to something commensurate to demand/supply. In time, the demand will far outstrip thesupply of only a couple dozen. This will be accelerated when our coinage changes and collectors classicize these designs.
Comments
<< <i>Because they were experimental, it is unlikely they were struck in 1965. >>
Huh? Are you aware of the fact that the 1964 dies were used in all production until only a couple days before the close of 1965? The 1965 dies were only in production in 1965 for a couple days in December and then for over half of 1966.
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SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>
<< <i>Because they were experimental, it is unlikely they were struck in 1965. >>
Huh? Are you aware of the fact that the 1964 dies were used in all production until only a couple days before the close of 1965? The 1965 dies were only in production in 1965 for a couple days in December and then for over half of 1966. >>
Indeed! There were even 1964 dimes being struck into February of 1966.
<< <i>I was alive at the time and am aware. I believe the SMS were struck from different die pairs than business strikes. They are certainly different, special, and probably presentation pieces. I am not at all certain that they have anything to do with 1965-1967 SMS, as PCGS believes. NGC calls them specimens. They easily might have been struck to adjoin the 10-15 1964 peace dollars rumored to have escaped melting destruction. >>
This might explain the way these came to the general attention of collectors
seemingly already distributed. If memory serves there were unequal numbers
of each coin available in the early '90's auction when most of us learned of them
for the first time. One was reported to have been found in a bucket of junk silver.
Set aside the question of whether any 1964 Peace dollars escaped by assuming that some did avoid the melting pot. The scenario outlined above that the 1964 SMS coins were minted to (somehow) accompany the Peace dollars still seems odd. Why bother minting these coins to accompany the Peace dollars; why not simply acquire a few (legal!) 1964 proof coins and then distribute a proof coin/Peace dollar set? One might say that a Peace dollar would look "odd" next to proof coins. But I can recall nothing that suggests any Peace dollars were struck with a special finish, so the presumably mint state Peace dollars would look odd when paired with either the SMS coins or proof coins.
Personally, before I give much credence to the idea that the SMS coins were minted to accompany Peace dollars, I'd like to see some more evidence than a post which correlates the two. That is not to say that I entirely dismiss the suggestion but it is to say that I am skeptical.
<< <i>I believe these were presentation sets that may have originally included peace dollars. >>
First time I heard this argument / idea. The 1964 SMS bore no mintmark, the 1964 Peace Dollar was struck at Denver. During that time period, the mint did not mix branch mint products. If you bought a 1964 mint set, the "D" were all in one sleeve and the "P" (no mint marks) were in another. I find it hard to believe that the mint would have made the 1964 SMS with the "D" Dollar, if they did then the penney through half dollar would also have the "D" mint mark on the 1964 SMS coins.
<< <i>cladking:
Set aside the question of whether any 1964 Peace dollars escaped by assuming that some did avoid the melting pot. The scenario outlined above that the 1964 SMS coins were minted to (somehow) accompany the Peace dollars still seems odd. Why bother minting these coins to accompany the Peace dollars; why not simply acquire a few (legal!) 1964 proof coins and then distribute a proof coin/Peace dollar set? One might say that a Peace dollar would look "odd" next to proof coins. But I can recall nothing that suggests any Peace dollars were struck with a special finish, so the presumably mint state Peace dollars would look odd when paired with either the SMS coins or proof coins.
Personally, before I give much credence to the idea that the SMS coins were minted to accompany Peace dollars, I'd like to see some more evidence than a post which correlates the two. That is not to say that I entirely dismiss the suggestion but it is to say that I am skeptical. >>
<< <i>First time I heard this argument / idea. The 1964 SMS bore no mintmark, the 1964 Peace Dollar was struck at Denver. During that time period, the mint did not mix branch mint products. If you bought a 1964 mint set, the "D" were all in one sleeve and the "P" (no mint marks) were in another. I find it hard to believe that the mint would have made the 1964 SMS with the "D" Dollar, if they did then the penney through half dollar would also have the "D" mint mark on the 1964 SMS coins. >>
Good points.
I still think these were probably the result of of testing for the '65 SMS coins. They certainly are mysterious.
edited to add second quote
32.5K for the entire 64 SMS set doesn't sound unreasonable (if you have that kind of play change) for a set you're thinking of keeping for 20 years, the possibility of another 20 sets miraculously showing up have to be slim... If I had the change, it would be mine already.
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
The set in question never sold, but is still available from what I have heard.
and now is NOT the time to spend this much on 1 set, maybe next year or in 2012.
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ANA - Pay As I Go Member
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>I like seeing a rekindling of an old thread.
The set in question never sold, but is still available from what I have heard.
and now is NOT the time to spend this much on 1 set, maybe next year or in 2012. >>
I think the time to find these quality Gems is NOW..!!!.From what I heard ..It will all end in 2012...!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>I like seeing a rekindling of an old thread.
The set in question never sold, but is still available from what I have heard.
and now is NOT the time to spend this much on 1 set, maybe next year or in 2012. >>
I think the time to find these quality Gems is NOW..!!!.From what I heard ..It will all end in 2012...!!! >>
Interesting, brings new meaning to the song "When I'm 64"!
The name is LEE!