26 CASES of 1975 Topps minis!
ICE9
Posts: 552 ✭✭✭
To be auctioned through REA in 2009. What will this do to prices?
"Must these Englishmen Live That I Might Die? Must They Live That I Might Die?" - The Blue Oyster Cult
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thats a lot!!
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
My Sandberg topps basic set
My Sandberg Topps Master set
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There is certainly NO "guarantee" that his estate is not holding back
additional cases.
Hyped-hoards often do well at auction and less often hold their realized
values in out years.
.........
Current holders of all but the best examples would probably be wise to
dump quickly, if future monetary value is of concern to them.
wow
RIP GURU
<< <i>Does the owner of these cases live in Pittsfield Township, Michigan (right between Ypsilanti and Ann Arbor)? >>
I can get there in about 45 minutes, does anyone one me to stop in and get them one??
<< <i>.......how many cards is that?......... >>
I believe there are 12 cases still sealed, and 14 cases where the seal has been broken (but they may still be full). If the 26 wax cases are all full it's just under 150,000 cards (not counting the cello cases).
I am in need of a personal $500,000 loan to buy 34 year old cardboard. For collateral, I have a massive collection of much NEWER! cardboard
all of which display the same player... maybe you've heard of him, Chris Sabo.
Sincerely...
Stupid
If these cases were within my control, I'd need damn near a year off work to carefully work through them.
Sets, singles, racks with stars, graded singles... not to mention the mult. stories that will be written on their new owner(s.)
Personally... I'd rather someone like BBCE get these and make them available to the public.
ALWAYS Looking for Chris Sabo cards!
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I suspect something like that will happen.
I have a hard time imagining that somebody will buy a bunch of
these and stash them for another 30-years. They seem much
more likely to quickly make their way to retail buyers.
If this stash has been the source of some/all of the BBCE offerings,
the general quality of the cards can be speculated. This could
negate some of my notion that the supply will hurt prices, unless
the cards are MUCH nicer than most of the ones I have seen.
<< <i>"...“We will likely never again see 26 cases of an important vintage issue available at one time like this..........."
//////////////////////////////////////////////
There is certainly NO "guarantee" that his estate is not holding back
additional cases.
Hyped-hoards often do well at auction and less often hold their realized
values in out years.
.........
Current holders of all but the best examples would probably be wise to
dump quickly, if future monetary value is of concern to them. >>
Seems to me like very solid advice.
My Sandberg topps basic set
My Sandberg Topps Master set
You out there, Big Dog?
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings
<< <i>I know someone who will buy the wrappers!
You out there, Big Dog? >>
My Sandberg topps basic set
My Sandberg Topps Master set
<< <i>I am sure a reseller will buy these things. I cant even imagine a collector going through 150,000 of the same cards trying to find a diamond in the rough. >>
Considering some of the cases were opened, I have a feeling the seller knows basically exactly what he's got there as far as potentially high graded cards...and evidently he feels there is little to no potential there.
<< <i>
<< <i>I am sure a reseller will buy these things. I cant even imagine a collector going through 150,000 of the same cards trying to find a diamond in the rough. >>
Considering some of the cases were opened, I have a feeling the seller knows basically exactly what he's got there as far as potentially high graded cards...and evidently he feels there is little to no potential there. >>
The "seller" is dead.. his family is auctioning the material..
Collector of Pittsburgh Pirates cards for a slightly less stupid reason.
My Pirates Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I am sure a reseller will buy these things. I cant even imagine a collector going through 150,000 of the same cards trying to find a diamond in the rough. >>
Considering some of the cases were opened, I have a feeling the seller knows basically exactly what he's got there as far as potentially high graded cards...and evidently he feels there is little to no potential there. >>
The "seller" is dead.. his family is auctioning the material.. >>
If the family, the seller, was ignorant about the value of the cards, then they wouldn't have contacted a baseball card auction house now would they? They would have simply walked into some baseball card shops, and contacted some baseball card websites that offer to buy cards, and simply accepted the highest offer. They obviously consulted the auction house, who no doubt counseled them on achieving the maximum value for the cards, and hence made their decision to go about it that way.
I'm not gonna say that there's zero chance of getting high value graded cards from these boxes, but I have to believe that it's unlikely, very unlikely.
Though 75 minis are notorious for problems with centering (as the case we bought on here from Steve Hart showed), there is no way to know the quality of these cards if the cases are sealed. I've opened a couple of 75 mini boxes over the last couple of years, and have also been lucky to hit a good run of cards that yielded a pop 1 PSA 10, a pop 2 PSA 10 and a PSA 9 Brett RC. You just don't know until you crack the case. That's what makes these minis so exciting to collect.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Few collectors or dealers were around as long (he was extremely active continuously from 1975 until his passing earlier this year), and few collectors or dealers traveled as extensively. Charlie thought nothing of driving hundreds of miles, or hopping on a plane to visit a show, many times just for the day. There was hardly a show that we ever attended, even for a few hours, from the late 1970s through modern times when we would not see Charlie, briefcase in hand, walking down the aisle. So many times, especially at shows that were far from his hometown of Ypsilanti, Mich., we would ask him, “What the heck are you doing here?” And he would tell us he was “just in for the day” in case there were good buys or anything rare that showed up. It was as if he lived down the block.
So this must indeed be the guy I'm thinking of. He lived on Edison St. off of Packard and in between Hewitt and Golfside, if anyone here is familiar with his (my) home town.
Steve
<< <i>Would it not have been better to disperse these 'cases' a little at a time?
Steve >>
I hear what Grote15 stated and he's not at all incorrect, but a number of the cases were opened, whether or not at least some of the packs were "tampered with" I have no idea. Perhaps the original owner knew that these cases were from a specific lot number, that was notorious for off center, miscut cards, and I fully believe that's entirely possible if not likely.
Hard to believe that as much as these boxes will fetch, that the sellers don't realize that just with a number of highly graded cards, those cards might be worth much, much more than this whole lot will fetch at auction. Of course the auction house will place their clever spin on the lot to achieve the maximum value. Also the gentleman who died could very well have had 27 cases at one time, opened all the packs from that one case, and it was basically garbage compared to what the unopened packs would sell for, and just decided to keep the cases as is.
Frankly, and it's too late now, but the smarter move I think would have been as WinPitcher suggested, or at the very least just first sell the unopened cases as a lot with the perception to a potential buyer that nothing was ever opened, and then the family could sell the resealed boxes at a later auction.
I would think that the chances of any of these packs being tampered with is virtually nil, as this dealer was a well known hoarder of sealed Topps cases before anyone thought to stash them away.
I'd also think listing each case separately would maximize its value, but there are a number of collectors out there with very deep pockets and this is a once in a lifetime chance to get this many sealed 75 cases at one time. There are also a number of hardcore 75 mini collectors who are planning to bid aggressively on these lots, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
also, the guy was an original card guy from the 70's that hit every show that existed , he was known by most dealers and good friends with many like lifson. what do you think , he was sneaking out of the house for days at a time to go to card shows and never discussed what he did or mentioned any of his friends with his family? that is what your far fetched story about walking into a card shop and ploping the stuff on the table and saying give me some cash equates to.
by the way , who shot jfk? I am sure you have that all figured out too
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>virtually every box of 75 minis that are in existance came from this source is my understanding so to say he opened a case and it was garbage and kept these is just ludicrous. get your facts straight , this bit is so old.
also, the guy was an original card guy from the 70's that hit every show that existed , he was known by most dealers and good friends with many like lifson. what do you think , he was sneaking out of the house for days at a time to go to card shows and never discussed what he did or mentioned any of his friends with his family? that is what your far fetched story about walking into a card shop and ploping the stuff on the table and saying give me some cash equates to.
by the way , who shot jfk? I am sure you have that all figured out too >>
Hey genius - he's not selling the cards, his "estate" is selling the cards and the estate obviously would be stupid not to try to obtain the maximum value because in this situation it's all about the money, and only about the money to them.
And my comment "garbage" is hyperbole for the monetary difference between the raw and graded cards, and the possible or likely (in my opinion) difference in selling price. Obviously if the cards are all PSA 7 type cards, those are not garbage cards, but if someone bids on and wins these packs, and pays a lot of money for them, with the intentions of busting the packs, and hopefully getting lots of PSA 9's and 10's, and it turns out there is nothing but 7's as well as OC and MC cards, then for sure the first thing that will cross his mind is that he bought a bunch of "garbage" compared to the price he paid. Understand it a little better now Einstein?
<< <i>Hey genius - he's not selling the cards, his "estate" is selling the cards and the estate obviously would be stupid not to try to obtain the maximum value because in this situation it's all about the money, and only about the money to them.
>>
genius, never said he was selling them , he passed away as stated many times in this thread , that would be a little tough to do. I referenced you saying his estate would walk into a card shop and plop them on the counter.
as for it's all about the money, if it was all about the money , his estate would not dump his whole collection at once and you have no idea what the estates situation is , the money could be completely irrelevent to them , they may all already be rich with vacation houses in the alps so to make such statements without any facts is another wild statement by you.
I'm still looking for bigfoot , do you know where I can find him?
j
RIP GURU
We need pictures !!!
Wonder what else he had. Amazing.
Conlon's hoard of '75 minis was an unknown factor hanging over the market for that set, ossibly acting as a damper on demand as rumors abounded that he was sitting on up to "hundreds" of cases. While it is not specifically stated, the cases in the REA auction likely represent the totality of the hoard. Now that the hobby knowns the extent of potential supply, I believe prices could rise. The integrity of both the consignor and the chosen auction firm lead me to believe that we will not be seeing another pile of cases of '75 minis come to market next year, or the year after, or the year after that, etc.
As for the opened cases, it is very likely that many of them "popped" open in the past 33+ years due to environmental/storage conditions. It's also possible that many were purchased by Conlon already opened by the retailers from whom he secured them. These cases/boxes are surely untampered with as they have been in the same hands since they were merely bubblegum inventory on store shelves.
<< <i>
<< <i>Hey genius - he's not selling the cards, his "estate" is selling the cards and the estate obviously would be stupid not to try to obtain the maximum value because in this situation it's all about the money, and only about the money to them.
>>
genius, never said he was selling them , he passed away as stated many times in this thread , that would be a little tough to do. I referenced you saying his estate would walk into a card shop and plop them on the counter.
as for it's all about the money, if it was all about the money , his estate would not dump his whole collection at once and you have no idea what the estates situation is , the money could be completely irrelevent to them , they may all already be rich with vacation houses in the alps so to make such statements without any facts is another wild statement by you.
I'm still looking for bigfoot , do you know where I can find him? >>
Hey Sherlock Holmes - it's obviously all about the money. that's not even remotely debatable - whether or not the "estate" is going about it the right way or not to maximize the auction value, I would have to presume that they have been well counseled on how to do that, and they have decided that this is the route they want to go based on their financial needs and circumstances. Obviously again...they're willing to sacrifice a little of the profit by selling all 26 cases at once rather than individually over time...but in no way, shape or form would they sacrifice an extraordinary sales difference which would be derived if the cards were graded high and sold that way - my opinion is that the sellers have a very good, if not close to exact idea what the cards in those boxes would grade...and that any buyers thinking these sellers are "babes in the woods" would be making an error in bidding too high on these cases. Got it now Sherlock or do you need more clues?
<< <i>According to the REA website, the proceeds from the sale of these 1975 mini cases, and the rest of Charlie Conlon's consigned collection, are going to a designated group of 10 charities. While leaking the '75s onto the market a few cases at a time might have generated a few more dollars, it was evidently Conlon's desire that the charities of his choice receive a single lump sum payment rather than dribs and drabs for the next few years.
Conlon's hoard of '75 minis was an unknown factor hanging over the market for that set, ossibly acting as a damper on demand as rumors abounded that he was sitting on up to "hundreds" of cases. While it is not specifically stated, the cases in the REA auction likely represent the totality of the hoard. Now that the hobby knowns the extent of potential supply, I believe prices could rise. The integrity of both the consignor and the chosen auction firm lead me to believe that we will not be seeing another pile of cases of '75 minis come to market next year, or the year after, or the year after that, etc.
As for the opened cases, it is very likely that many of them "popped" open in the past 33+ years due to environmental/storage conditions. It's also possible that many were purchased by Conlon already opened by the retailers from whom he secured them. These cases/boxes are surely untampered with as they have been in the same hands since they were merely bubblegum inventory on store shelves. >>
Interesting info and I'll just add one comment - If anyone "believes" everything an auction house states, then that would be quite naive - Even if the "charity story" is true, those cards if the possible value were a lot higher graded, would get graded, and then sold and then a lump sum check submitted to the charity. The auction house, getting a percentage commission of the sale, is gonna do everything and almost anything to maximize the sales price in order to maximize their commission. Let's take some random arbitrary numbers...if the sellers and auction house thought the cases would be worth say $1,000,000 graded versus say $500,000 sold as is, then they're not gonna sell that lot as is, in my opinion. They're not gonna leave that much money on the table which wouldn't be smart for the commission amount and wouldn't be right either for the charity. The charity should be able to get a $1,000,000 check versus a $500,000 check.
<< <i>Hey Sherlock Holmes - it's obviously all about the money. that's not even remotely debatable - whether or not the "estate" is going about it the right way or not to maximize the auction value, I would have to presume that they have been well counseled on how to do that, and they have decided that this is the route they want to go based on their financial needs and circumstances. Obviously again...they're willing to sacrifice a little of the profit by selling all 26 cases at once rather than individually over time...but in no way, shape or form would they sacrifice an extraordinary sales difference which would be derived if the cards were graded high and sold that way - my opinion is that the sellers have a very good, if not close to exact idea what the cards in those boxes would grade...and that any buyers thinking these sellers are "babes in the woods" would be making an error in bidding too high on these cases. Got it now Sherlock or do you need more clues?
>>
again you are completely ignorant to the matter, the family isn't even getting the money so to keep coming up with your theories on the condition of the cards is pointless. as a potential buyer for these cases , I enjoy your far reaching stories since they are an attempt to turn people away from the product. will only make it easier for me and easier to make more money.
<< <i>my opinion is that the sellers have a very good, if not close to exact idea what the cards in those boxes would grade >>
and we don't , look at the pop reports , look at the breaks we have seen. they are all the same packs from the same source
there's a reason red cross is consistently 1 of the most profitable companies in the world every year....
J
RIP GURU
<< <i>stevek, do you live in a closet with 37 padlocks, 42 motion detectors , and full video survelance? you seem to be the most sceptical , paranoid , untrusting soul I have seen , you remind me of mel gibson in conspiracy theory. better check that trap door , someone may be coming to get you >>
Not for me...but I do for my cards and coins. LOL
And based on your comments you'd better watch out for that "Casper the Ghost" fellow - he's very scary.
okay, gratuitous usage of !, but it's friday dammit!
j
RIP GURU
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Therein lies the danger.
IF the AH had a good faith belief that this was the "totalitiy," trust me, they WOULD say so.
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Anyone who wants to know what the "likely" quality of the cards will be, might start
their investigation by asking BBCE where they have been getting their cases.
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9s and 10s are nice to have and safe to keep.
As the years rolled by and prices went up, he slowly sold off his seemingly never-ending supply. When asked how the supply was holding up in recent years, he would simply say “I’m running low” and leave it at that. We don’t know how many cases he had at one time. It was certainly in the hundreds (and most of these have been opened to make sets). But we now know that his supply had diminished to exactly twenty-six unopened wax cases (with sixteen 36-pack boxes per case), with an original cost to Charlie in 1975 of less than $1,000.
I am curious as to the extent of the rest of his collection since REA indicates that they are selling his vintage card inventory.
This is known as “bad luck.”
as far as quality goes I have seen boxes from the same case, some yield terribly O/C & miscut cards , and other boxes yield nothing but PSA 9 & 10 quality.
personally, I think you might see a small downturn on the 75 mini's , that will correct itself a year or two down the road. I also believe those buying the 75 unopened will have strong hands and not weak minds and will not dump them into the market thus stopping any collapse of the market. JMHO
I love all the doom and gloomers , the sky is falling (because usually some good deals to be had) , all collectible markets have rises and falls and to the true collectors this does not effect them to much, but to the speculators and the dealers it means alot more.
On a plus side there is money to made in a up market and money to made in a down market. Everyone have a nice day!!!!!