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Under Rated / Under Appreciated Series
RWB
Posts: 8,082 ✭
What US coinage series’ do you feel are not properly appreciated by modern collectors?
For me, one of them is the Peace dollar. (Hence the book from Barry Lovvorn and me.)
One reason for writing a book solely on Peace dollars was to bring attention to this long-ignored series. Morgans have sharply engraved designs and boast huge mintages resulting in many varieties to collect while on a modest hobby budget. But Peace dollars have real, dig-your-teeth-in history behind them. The silver came indirectly with America’s aid to Great Britain during World War I, and every ounce of silver used from 1921-1928 subsidized western American mining. The coin was named “Peace dollar” long before it was designed and its purpose was as a pubic commemorative for the end of the war and the hope for a permanent limitation of armaments.
A second important reason was to bring public credit to engraver George T. Morgan. The man saved the coin from failure by removing the sword from the steel reverse hub, and nobody so much as guessed it for more than 90 years. Minute traces of Morgan’s expertise can be seen on 1921 coins in the eagle’s legs and talons, the mountain peak and the olive branches.
Lastly, another reason, although less compelling, was the chance to punch holes in long standing myths and falsehoods, particularly those invented and promoted by the late Walter Breen. It seems that when Breen didn’t know the answer, he made up one, thus confusing the next two generations of numismatists.
For me, one of them is the Peace dollar. (Hence the book from Barry Lovvorn and me.)
One reason for writing a book solely on Peace dollars was to bring attention to this long-ignored series. Morgans have sharply engraved designs and boast huge mintages resulting in many varieties to collect while on a modest hobby budget. But Peace dollars have real, dig-your-teeth-in history behind them. The silver came indirectly with America’s aid to Great Britain during World War I, and every ounce of silver used from 1921-1928 subsidized western American mining. The coin was named “Peace dollar” long before it was designed and its purpose was as a pubic commemorative for the end of the war and the hope for a permanent limitation of armaments.
A second important reason was to bring public credit to engraver George T. Morgan. The man saved the coin from failure by removing the sword from the steel reverse hub, and nobody so much as guessed it for more than 90 years. Minute traces of Morgan’s expertise can be seen on 1921 coins in the eagle’s legs and talons, the mountain peak and the olive branches.
Lastly, another reason, although less compelling, was the chance to punch holes in long standing myths and falsehoods, particularly those invented and promoted by the late Walter Breen. It seems that when Breen didn’t know the answer, he made up one, thus confusing the next two generations of numismatists.
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I really feel that th 2c piece is the most under-rated series in all of US coins. I was at a coin show this past weekend and was trying to sell two
Two-Cent pieces. One was a nice 65RD and the other was a nice mid-grade semi-key. I walked around the floor asking if any of the dealers would
be interested in either of them. The usual response was that they weren't even interested in them, even before I showed them the coins. Only
once did I get a response of interest, and that was for the 65RD coin. The dealers told me that this coin was really tough to move and the market
wasn't interested in these coin. Oh well, I will still have these two coins for many year I guess.
"For me, one of them is the Peace dollar. "
Peace dollars are not "modern" thus I can understand why they are not "appreciated by modern collectors."
<< <i>"What US coinage series’ do you feel are not properly appreciated by modern collectors?"
"For me, one of them is the Peace dollar. "
Peace dollars are not "modern" thus I can understand why they are not "appreciated by modern collectors." >>
Well I guess the term "Modern" needs some definition then since modern can be anything from 1900 to date or anything from 1965 to date.
I'm thinking Roger is referring to anything 1900 to date which of course would include Morgan Dollars, Barber Halves, quarters and dimes, Liberty Nickels, and Indian Head Cents.
Seems kinda weird thinking of a Liberty Nickel as modern though.
The name is LEE!
If you look at them, I'm currently looking for 66 and 67 dimes in MS68Cam. For one, you can't find one... and when they do come up they will bring right at the PCGS price guide... and even then they can be had for less than 300! Look at the pops on those and let me know if you don't think that's a ridiculously low price.
<< <i>The phrase was "modern collectors" not "modern coins." I was referring to people who collect coins now, rather than collectors active in some previous era. >>
That's what I took from your writing.
1. Seated Liberty dollars
2. Trade dollars
3. Civil War- & Reconstruction-era coins/currency in general. There are lots of themes to ponder here.
4. Half cents
5. Patterns & designs for new series, from the point of view of the economics/politics/aesthetics leading to success (new series launch) vs. failure (no new series).
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Sometimes part of series may have high interest or some issues of a series my be under appreciated due to the change in coin's composition.
IMO currently many collectors under rate and under appreciate any of the clad coins. This seems to be in part due to the metal not being precious or semi precious.
I find that odd in the sense that, copper and nickel, not being of great value in ithemselves, are generally well appreciated overall. Many copper series have a large collector base, as does nickel .
Even some of the so called dollars that are made of other metals such of aluminum are often appreciated by many.
Yet use the medium of clad and now the coin is less desirable and underappreciated. Not that every collector feels this way, but metal seems to impact how appreciated a series may be in today's current market.
<< <i>At any given time most series are out of vouge and hence under appreciated .
Sometimes part of series may have high interest or some issues of a series my be under appreciated due to the change in coin's composition.
IMO currently many collectors under rate and under appreciate any of the clad coins. This seems to be in part due to the metal not being precious or semi precious.
I find that odd in the sense that, copper and nickel, not being of great value in ithemselves, are generally well appreciated overall. Many copper series have a large collector base, as does nickel .
Even some of the so called dollars that are made of other metals such of aluminum are often appreciated by many.
Yet use the medium of clad and now the coin is less desirable and underappreciated. Not that every collector feels this way, but metal seems to impact how appreciated a series may be in today's current market. >>
I feel you have made some excellent points but disagree with one premise. I feel clad do not get as much repsect as older coins is simply
due to their age and not the metal content/type.
Is it not as sexy to collect coins that are still widely circulating to this day.
But, I fall into your description squarely. I think clad is a slap in my face
from the federal govt which is debasing our currency. Why in the world
would I want to collect crap with a dead president on it? It represents everything
that is wrong with the USA right now, today.
due to their age and not the metal content/type.
Is it not as sexy to collect coins that are still widely circulating to this day.
But, I fall into your description squarely. I think clad is a slap in my face
from the federal govt which is debasing our currency"
I take your point regarding age of the coin, but metal still plays a large part in it acceptance and desirablity.
There are a number of modern coins sought after and large premiums paid for, whether it be the Uncirculated Jackie Robinson Gold Commerative or the 08/07 ASE, I do not believe if these were clad coins that they would be so "rated/appreciated". If these were clad coins, despite the low mintage of one and availability of the other I do not feel they would be obtaining either the interest or prices.
Now you may counter that you are referring to coins in circulation and the aforementioned are not issued for circulation. The mint does issue medals made out of bronze, not intented for circulation, but I see no high interest or collectors base in them. If they had an error similar to the 08/08 ASE would any of these issue command such interest or prices? I think not.
Mentioning that you consider clad a slap in the face also undercuts your point.
<< <i>Is it not as sexy to collect coins that are still widely circulating to this day.
But, I fall into your description squarely. I think clad is a slap in my face
from the federal govt which is debasing our currency. Why in the world
would I want to collect crap with a dead president on it? It represents everything
that is wrong with the USA right now, today. >>
Not sure I agree with your final statement, but I do agree that there is no
romance (for me) in clad coinage.
Thanks RWB as that answers why I've been in a state of confusion... I can now cancel my therapy session and add that fundage to the coin budget!
It seems seldom that I see nice high grade Barbers but when I do they look interesting.
1921- RAY through L
1922- 2mound, branch doesn't touch claw
1922- Doubled Tiara
1923- Doubled Tiara
1924- broken wing or 1923 tail on O ( Pick your fav extra metal peace, I'm not big on die brakes )
1925- Missing RAY
1926s- Dot on REV
1934d- DDO large D
1934d- DDO small D
1935s- 4Ray
<< <i>Topics for new books that I'd be interested in:
1. Seated Liberty dollars
2. Trade dollars
3. Civil War- & Reconstruction-era coins/currency in general. There are lots of themes to ponder here.
4. Half cents
5. Patterns & designs for new series, from the point of view of the economics/politics/aesthetics leading to success (new series launch) vs. failure (no new series). Arizonadesertrat[/q
Weimar White wrote a book on Seated Dollars back in the 1980s.
Check around and find a copy.
Oh, and Walter Breen wrote a monumental book on the Half Cents.
Ray
- a recently discovered pattern that is unique on both sides in countless details, A MODERN PATTERN!, a $35,000 coin that cost the cherry picker $8 at a major show: all he did was open his eyes and listen to his wife who suggested he "check out that table over there".
- its highest quality silver specimens sell for under $10 in many venues, with a bullion value of around $5, many unsearched with a liberal sprinkling of very high-grade (ie, "in-the-money");
- its two key coins are residing by the tens of thousands in countless Brick and Mortar shops, ripe cherries just waiting to be picked, worth $50 to 500 commonly, selling for $1.50 on average;
- for those with a healthy curiosity, a wonderful history of design confusion that approached chaos for the first two years of minting, repleat with multiple Mint spokesperson smoke-screens, denials and obfuscation;
- for those of you with strong obcessive-compulsive tendencies (ie, "collectors"), 32 common specimens, around a hundred cataloged Doubled Dies, 13 different, naked eye, recognizable and named die-clash images, and about a dozen "new" Varieties with more, possibly many more just waiting to be discovered;
- last but not least a cool new web site with dozens and dozens of articles and threads devoted to this series, crafted and tended by the "GROUP" to provide a wealth of information with transparency through and through, no marketing, no turf protection and no "Black Box" attribution proceedures.
What is this remarkable series? The only series to honor one of America's greatest Generals and most beloved 8-year President, as well as the out-of-this-world, literally, Apollo program he was instrumental in getting off the ground. Rob
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
I also look forward to a book on Barber Coinage
<< <i>Let's see, I'm thinking of a Series with some remarkable attractions:
- a recently discovered pattern that is unique on both sides in countless details, A MODERN PATTERN!, a $35,000 coin that cost the cherry picker $8 at a major show: all he did was open his eyes and listen to his wife who suggested he "check out that table over there".
- its highest quality silver specimens sell for under $10 in many venues, with a bullion value of around $5, many unsearched with a liberal sprinkling of very high-grade (ie, "in-the-money");
- its two key coins are residing by the tens of thousands in countless Brick and Mortar shops, ripe cherries just waiting to be picked, worth $50 to 500 commonly, selling for $1.50 on average;
- for those with a healthy curiosity, a wonderful history of design confusion that approached chaos for the first two years of minting, repleat with multiple Mint spokesperson smoke-screens, denials and obfuscation;
- for those of you with strong obcessive-compulsive tendencies (ie, "collectors"), 32 common specimens, around a hundred cataloged Doubled Dies, 13 different, naked eye, recognizable and named die-clash images, and about a dozen "new" Varieties with more, possibly many more just waiting to be discovered;
- last but not least a cool new web site with dozens and dozens of articles and threads devoted to this series, crafted and tended by the "GROUP" to provide a wealth of information with transparency through and through, no marketing, no turf protection and no "Black Box" attribution proceedures.
What is this remarkable series? The only series to honor one of America's greatest Generals and most beloved 8-year President, as well as the out-of-this-world, literally, Apollo program he was instrumental in getting off the ground. Rob >>
Where can one find pictures of this Ike pattern?
<< <i>Seated halves in nice collector grades get my vote. Doesn't seem like enough people are collecting these. I think that could change as more and more Bust half collectors start to move into this series. >>
How would you define "nice collector grades" in that series? Thanks.
<< <i>Let's see, I'm thinking of a Series with some remarkable attractions:
- a recently discovered pattern that is unique on both sides in countless details, A MODERN PATTERN!, a $35,000 coin that cost the cherry picker $8 at a major show: all he did was open his eyes and listen to his wife who suggested he "check out that table over there".
- its highest quality silver specimens sell for under $10 in many venues, with a bullion value of around $5, many unsearched with a liberal sprinkling of very high-grade (ie, "in-the-money");
- its two key coins are residing by the tens of thousands in countless Brick and Mortar shops, ripe cherries just waiting to be picked, worth $50 to 500 commonly, selling for $1.50 on average;
- for those with a healthy curiosity, a wonderful history of design confusion that approached chaos for the first two years of minting, repleat with multiple Mint spokesperson smoke-screens, denials and obfuscation;
- for those of you with strong obcessive-compulsive tendencies (ie, "collectors"), 32 common specimens, around a hundred cataloged Doubled Dies, 13 different, naked eye, recognizable and named die-clash images, and about a dozen "new" Varieties with more, possibly many more just waiting to be discovered;
- last but not least a cool new web site with dozens and dozens of articles and threads devoted to this series, crafted and tended by the "GROUP" to provide a wealth of information with transparency through and through, no marketing, no turf protection and no "Black Box" attribution proceedures.
What is this remarkable series? The only series to honor one of America's greatest Generals and most beloved 8-year President, as well as the out-of-this-world, literally, Apollo program he was instrumental in getting off the ground. >>
It's also the last large coin minted for circulation and far
scarcer in nice gem or near gem condition than the Morgan
dollars yet sells for a small fraction of the price.
Complete circulation sets can be assembled for just several
dollars and the chances of finding scarcities in the process
is very real.
Collecting them gives one a great excuse for cherry picking
proof and mint sets from the 1970's. Eventually this decade
will come into style again.
Here's one place: LINK TO IKE PATTERN (PROTOTYPE)
Here's another: LINK TO ARTICLE ON IKE PROTOTYPE
Rob
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
But one sub-series that gets little attention would be the 1968 to 1972 quarter reverses.
1968 S, 1969 D and 1970 D each come in the same 3 design variations. They can be readily seen and identified by the naked eye or if instead blindfolded by touch alone. Two of the designs were especially made for the proof coins in 1968.
The 1972 D high relief proof artwork reverse quarter (type
<< <i>Where can one find pictures of this Ike pattern? >>
There are a couple threads on this forum with some pictures.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Three cheers for the Ikes.
But one sub-series that gets little attention would be the 1968 to 1972 quarter reverses.
1968 S, 1969 D and 1970 D each come in the same 3 design variations. They can be readily seen and identified by the naked eye or if instead blindfolded by touch alone. Two of the designs were especially made for the proof coins in 1968.
The 1972 D high relief proof artwork reverse quarter (type
The whole clad quarter series seems underappreciated. As much as I like the Ike
they do have one potential drawback and that is that gem specimens are so very
scarce. Oh sure, it might not matter if collectors are willing to settle for near-gem
and choice coins since these are more available in most cases.
While a few of the quarters are pretty scarce in gem most are available with some
effort. This might make them more popular.
There's also the fact that there are already millions collecting clad quarters; states
coins. And there are billions of the quarters actively circulating.
The various reverses from the early years are interesting and there are numerous
other desirable and rare varieties as well.