Dealers are whacked....
Peaceman
Posts: 5,098
Go to a coin show the other day when silver is in the $9 range and the cheapest I can buy per OZ is at $ 15.... even a 100 oz/er they wouldn't let go for less than $ 1450.... lol... They erally wanted my peace $ au's for $ 10.50 tho..... 
0
Comments
-Paul
most dealers dont know how to run a small biz with the customer in mind
"what do you mean gold is down", I want $285 for a $5 junk Lib, and ill give ya $185 for yours..........pleeeeze
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Ill sell ya anyhing in my house for $500 if I know I can sell it for $550 the next day
it just gets old and insulting with dealers..........
for non- BM's the overhead is low and the risk is minimal, its to big a spread
my rant is over
<< <i>Go to a coin show the other day when silver is in the $9 range and the cheapest I can buy per OZ is at $ 15.... even a 100 oz/er they wouldn't let go for less than $ 1450.... lol... They erally wanted my peace $ au's for $ 10.50 tho.....
Peaceman...let me put it this way...
No offense to peace Dollars but common AU's have about as much marketability as scrap silver... the dealer offered you a $2 premium to melt... he will probably try to sell them for $14 IF he can find any buyers....and probably settle for less or end up carrying them around for a good long while. I do say this based on personal experience.
As for the pure silver bullion...are you gonna sell any of yours to him at spot or less? I highly doubt it. No one but the desperate, gullible or naive will sell at present spot. Recently, when spot was $10, I was the only seller in a show of 50 sellers who even had any ASE's for sale. At the time they were bringing over $20/ea on the bay. I offered the roll to a dealer, who needed them for a customer, at $18/ea...he didn't bat an eyelash and bought them. {edited to add this... I had paid $16/ea for them earlier this year. If no one was willing to buy at $18 I would have simply stashed them until the spot price rose...which is what most folks are doing right now}
Anyway...spot price is a futures paper price... can't touch real PM right now at near spot unless you are buying 1000oz bars... if you want 1oz silver at spot try asking the folks setting the paper price if they have any to sell. Good luck with that...
...ok...I'm done...
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
There is an unprecedented gap between the price of REAL metals and an order confirmation or promise for delivery in 3 months. Not unlike during the Civil War when an item might be priced for $10 in gold or $27 in PROMISES to pay gold. A principal of VERY MAJOR bullion firm in Dallas told me that it was likely that some of these contracts for future delivery would be in default, because the physical metals do not exist in quantities sold in advance. (Like the numerous scandals on Ebay involving presales...just $100,000,000 versions)
to make a buck!! burn!!
;-)
<< <i>I was at three shops in the Dallas area today. All wanted $5 to $6 over spot for silver ounce bars and rounds, (and were paying $2 to $3 over spot)
There is an unprecedented gap between the price of REAL metals and an order confirmation or promise for delivery in 3 months. Not unlike during the Civil War when an item might be priced for $10 in gold or $27 in PROMISES to pay gold. A principal of VERY MAJOR bullion firm in Dallas told me that it was likely that some of these contracts for future delivery would be in default, because the physical metals do not exist in quantities sold in advance. (Like the numerous scandals on Ebay involving presales...just $100,000,000 versions) >>
Golly, I guess, as another poster has indicated, look at the oil folks and for of us who recall the 70's and 80's cry me a river.
<< <i>yes dealers are whack! i totally agree. darn them to hades for wanting
to make a buck!! burn!!
;-) >>
Make a buck, great. Suck the marrow out of the bone and gag to death on a bone fragment, not so much.
wow, it was sooooooo easy to buy just over spot when we were going from $ 4 - $10.... lol
<< <i>
<< <i>yes dealers are whack! i totally agree. darn them to hades for wanting
to make a buck!! burn!!
;-) >>
Make a buck, great. Suck the marrow out of the bone and gag to death on a bone fragment, not so much. >>
At least FC added a winky...Whitby, I find your post offensive and quite naive.
I just took the time to think it over and feel the need to post my thoughts...
The average show I set up at costs anywhere from $100 to $250 a day...up front expenses...I only do local and regional shows so there is no airfare or hotels... for evey day I spend at a show I usually spend an equal amount of time doing prep for the show... it is not like some fantasy/sci fi movie... we do not magically appear there on the bourse with all our stuff neatly displayed (that would be neat though
We get there early...haul our stuff into the show...set it up and clean/polished the glass and hope for the best...
Most of us are happy just to make our table... profit?... that's a bonus...
BTW...I ain't whinin'... just discussing the REALITY of the average coin show dealer...
Seriously, if I can't make at least $100 a day in clear profit...why in the $%^& should I even bother? Heck, I'd rather play a round of golf or wander around the show and look at the pretty coins
In this thread, we were talking about cheap silver dollars with maybe a $3 margin... and silver with about the same... you have any idea how many such sales I would need to do to make my table?... there ain't enough potential buyers in the room...
No one was talking about sucking marrow...
Maybe there are some sharks out there...there are in every type of business... but the outright verbal violence I encounter on this forum towards dealers in general...well frankly, it sucks rotten eggs...
Tell me...do you ever call a restuarant owner names when you pay $15 to $20 or more for a meal that cost maybe $5 to make?? I doubt it.
Do you scream at the manager of a dept. store when they sell you clothes at a 200-400% mark-up? (how else do you think they can afford all those big holiday sales?) I doubt it.
If you like the price then buy it... if you don't like the offer then don't sell it... NO ONE is twisting anyone's arm folks...
Whooh...glad I got that off my chest...
edited for speloing
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Make a buck, great. Suck the marrow out of the bone and gag to death on a bone fragment, not so much. >>
This is a very nonsensical comment. Whitby, you don't pay much attention to the market do you?
100
Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
ANA Member R-3147111
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>This post is about dealers asking $ 15 for an Oz. of silver and spot being $ 9.11...... Buyers are not going to run to take advantage of this gift that is being given to us... >>
OK peaceman... tell me something... who is going to sell their silver at behind present spot so I can sell it to you at spot?
Or...who will sell to me at, say, spot so I can sell it at $1 above spot?
and on and on the question can go...
and why on earth would I want to bother with such a deal unless I can quickly flip 100+ ounces?
NO One is running up to us to sell at spot prices and I don't expect anyone to run up and buy at a premium... but guess what... I pay a premium and I charge a premium and there are still buyers...
As I said in my previous (rant) post... if there is no profit in a business it is not a business... it becomes a hobby or a pain in the kaboose...
and as far as I'm concerned...the PM trade is not a hobby... so that only leaves two choices...
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>yes dealers are whack! i totally agree. darn them to hades for wanting
to make a buck!! burn!!
;-) >>
Make a buck, great. Suck the marrow out of the bone and gag to death on a bone fragment, not so much. >>
At least FC added a winky...Whitby, I find your post offensive and quite naive.
I just took the time to think it over and feel the need to post my thoughts...
The average show I set up at costs anywhere from $100 to $250 a day...up front expenses...I only do local and regional shows so there is no airfare or hotels... for evey day I spend at a show I usually spend an equal amount of time doing prep for the show... it is not like some fantasy/sci fi movie... we do not magically appear there on the bourse with all our stuff neatly displayed (that would be neat though
We get there early...haul our stuff into the show...set it up and clean/polished the glass and hope for the best...
Most of us are happy just to make our table... profit?... that's a bonus...
BTW...I ain't whinin'... just discussing the REALITY of the average coin show dealer...
Seriously, if I can't make at least $100 a day in clear profit...why in the $%^& should I even bother? Heck, I'd rather play a round of golf or wander around the show and look at the pretty coins
In this thread, we were talking about cheap silver dollars with maybe a $3 margin... and silver with about the same... you have any idea how many such sales I would need to do to make my table?... there ain't enough potential buyers in the room...
No one was talking about sucking marrow...
Maybe there are some sharks out there...there are in every type of business... but the outright verbal violence I encounter on this forum towards dealers in general...well frankly, it sucks rotten eggs...
Tell me...do you ever call a restuarant owner names when you pay $15 to $20 or more for a meal that cost maybe $5 to make?? I doubt it.
Do you scream at the manager of a dept. store when they sell you clothes at a 200-400% mark-up? (how else do you think they can afford all those big holiday sales?) I doubt it.
If you like the price then buy it... if you don't like the offer then don't sell it... NO ONE is twisting anyone's arm folks...
Whooh...glad I got that off my chest...
edited for speloing
I was agreeing with you, however, if you find agreement so offensive and naive, go pound sand. Wanna split hairs, fine by me. I do not know you and thus was trying to echo a sentiment. Maybe its all those folks you screwed that gave you guilt and now you try to get the guilt out by telling me I am offensive and naive???? I do not recall telling you a dam thing.
Make money, fine.
YES, I tell managers at restaurant, I am not paying 15 bucks for a meal I can make for 5. Yup, I dont order it. Thats why God made special unless its a nice place and the wine is a a 75 to 150% mark up which is a a very low market norm on certain types of wine. In short, I can read and I like to cook and yeah, I love great wines. SO.....Sorry, if you are going to screw a person, give them a peck on the cheek.
YES, I tell folks to jam it when you are bending me over, getting the lube and saying 200 to 400% on item x is fine. What item? Look
If you eat at McDonalds and Shop for clothes at Marshalls, WHO CARES????? But sorry man, greed sucks as does your attitude of having the BALLS to even begin this type of questioning to me.
If you want silver at spot man up, buy a contract & take delivery!
<< <i>
<< <i>Make a buck, great. Suck the marrow out of the bone and gag to death on a bone fragment, not so much. >>
This is a very nonsensical comment. Whitby, you don't pay much attention to the market do you? >>
Ya know, greed is as greed does. Answer this: Does the price of a precious metal reflect the actual supply or better yet deman? OR Is it folks who just speculate the fvck out of it. Gee, why dont you tell me because last I checked, the oil market sure was real as anything else right? G
Dont like the comment? Ignore it.
I find your expectation of ignorance on the part of most buyers to be just as crass and unreal as any other.
You should be selling your stuff on ebay, BST, Craigslist, etc.
When enough collectors start doing that and stop taking the easier quicker road of selling to a dealer then the dealers will be forced to pay more.
<< <i>If you sell to or buy from a dealer, you should expect that. They do have to pay the rent,advertising, insurance, lights, etc.
You should be selling your stuff on ebay, BST, Craigslist, etc.
When enough collectors start doing that and stop taking the easier quicker road of selling to a dealer then the dealers will be forced to pay more. >>
Well said total agreement......
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>yes dealers are whack! i totally agree. darn them to hades for wanting
to make a buck!! burn!!
;-) >>
Make a buck, great. Suck the marrow out of the bone and gag to death on a bone fragment, not so much. >>
At least FC added a winky...Whitby, I find your post offensive and quite naive.
I just took the time to think it over and feel the need to post my thoughts...
The average show I set up at costs anywhere from $100 to $250 a day...up front expenses...I only do local and regional shows so there is no airfare or hotels... for evey day I spend at a show I usually spend an equal amount of time doing prep for the show... it is not like some fantasy/sci fi movie... we do not magically appear there on the bourse with all our stuff neatly displayed (that would be neat though
We get there early...haul our stuff into the show...set it up and clean/polished the glass and hope for the best...
Most of us are happy just to make our table... profit?... that's a bonus...
BTW...I ain't whinin'... just discussing the REALITY of the average coin show dealer...
Seriously, if I can't make at least $100 a day in clear profit...why in the $%^& should I even bother? Heck, I'd rather play a round of golf or wander around the show and look at the pretty coins
In this thread, we were talking about cheap silver dollars with maybe a $3 margin... and silver with about the same... you have any idea how many such sales I would need to do to make my table?... there ain't enough potential buyers in the room...
No one was talking about sucking marrow...
Maybe there are some sharks out there...there are in every type of business... but the outright verbal violence I encounter on this forum towards dealers in general...well frankly, it sucks rotten eggs...
Tell me...do you ever call a restuarant owner names when you pay $15 to $20 or more for a meal that cost maybe $5 to make?? I doubt it.
Do you scream at the manager of a dept. store when they sell you clothes at a 200-400% mark-up? (how else do you think they can afford all those big holiday sales?) I doubt it.
If you like the price then buy it... if you don't like the offer then don't sell it... NO ONE is twisting anyone's arm folks...
Whooh...glad I got that off my chest...
edited for speloing
I was agreeing with you, however, if you find agreement so offensive and naive, go pound sand. Wanna split hairs, fine by me. I do not know you and thus was trying to echo a sentiment. Maybe its all those folks you screwed that gave you guilt and now you try to get the guilt out by telling me I am offensive and naive???? I do not recall telling you a dam thing.
Make money, fine.
YES, I tell managers at restaurant, I am not paying 15 bucks for a meal I can make for 5. Yup, I dont order it. Thats why God made special unless its a nice place and the wine is a a 75 to 150% mark up which is a a very low market norm on certain types of wine. In short, I can read and I like to cook and yeah, I love great wines. SO.....Sorry, if you are going to screw a person, give them a peck on the cheek.
YES, I tell folks to jam it when you are bending me over, getting the lube and saying 200 to 400% on item x is fine. What item? Look
If you eat at McDonalds and Shop for clothes at Marshalls, WHO CARES????? But sorry man, greed sucks as does your attitude of having the BALLS to even begin this type of questioning to me. >>
Sure didn't sound like agreement to me...be that as it may... I get the feeling that you are the type of buyer that could get me to chuck it all and go play golf... luckily there are more nice collectors out there than not so nice... just like dealers...imagine that...
Please make note of my handle here... I put up a sign at each show I set up at...I am friendly (and mean it) and am receptive and accomadating to all...but I don't take any BS...
unless your additude can soften...and I certainly know that mine can... please do us both a favor and shop elsewhere if we are ever at the same show...
BTW...the only complaints I have ever received at a show (other than from some oldtimer who just had a bad additude in general) has been from other dealers... because some of them think I pay too much and sell too cheap... and I say...too bad about them...
<< <i>This post is about dealers asking $ 15 for an Oz. of silver and spot being $ 9.11...... Buyers are not going to run to take advantage of this gift that is being given to us... >>
Peacman,
noy trying to give you a hard time. I am sure you know your stuff. But on this statement you are wrong. Buyers are crazy for $15 an ounce silver. $15 ASE's anyway. I posted to sell ads on craigslist for $15 and $16 ASE's and I got my email blown up like nothing I have ever experienced before. I feel that if I had asked $18 instead, they would have sold easily.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you sell to or buy from a dealer, you should expect that. They do have to pay the rent,advertising, insurance, lights, etc.
You should be selling your stuff on ebay, BST, Craigslist, etc.
When enough collectors start doing that and stop taking the easier quicker road of selling to a dealer then the dealers will be forced to pay more. >>
Well said total agreement...... >>
There is a fundamental flaw in this logic. All those "alternative options" may net you more sometimes, what is your time and peace of mind worth. You walk into a reputable store and if you are selling, you walk out with cash (or a check that is immediately good). Next to no risk. You sell on eBay, you pay the fees and are at the mercy of Paypal. If you sell on BST, probably little risk but stuff happens. If you sell on craigslist.... well thats a whole different ballgame.
Just as you seek to recoup some of the costs associated with a sale on eBay, so too does a dealer want to on their transaction. I am not saying that any transaction is below us, seeing as some dealers will buy everything from a common circ wheat to the slabbed gem. The truth is though, on a silver dollar that melt for $7.00 and we can sell for 13 or 14, $10 is more than fair for a single piece. If you have 100, 200, 1000 it is a whole different ball game. Our time is worth something so if we pay 12 or 13 for the common dollar we end up losing.
Same thing goes with silver eagles which is always a problem with people calling about them. People ask how much 1 silver eagle which we tell them is $20. Is that too much, probably, but when they cost $6 over and supply is severely restricted (+6 is the advertised sell of a known supplier), add in a capsule that costs $1, 20 is pretty reasonable. What people often don't ask is how much is a roll or case of 500. The time it takes me to sell 5 pieces is the same as for a strapped case. Based on this, rolls at +7 and +6.5 for a case is completely in line.
As was said before in this post, I highly doubt that anyone would sell their silver back of spot. That being said, you are not going to be able to buy if noone is willing to sell. We dislike it as much as you do. I loved it when I could pick up the phone, get 10+ 100 oz engles at 25 cents over and flip them for 50 cents an ounce. The world has changed. Will it ever be the same as it was? Who knows
<< <i>Go to a coin show the other day when silver is in the $9 range and the cheapest I can buy per OZ is at $ 15.... even a 100 oz/er they wouldn't let go for less than $ 1450.... lol... They erally wanted my peace $ au's for $ 10.50 tho.....
Question.....if there are 99 other people willing to pay that dealer his $15 asking price, what makes you so blessed special that he should sell it to you for less just to make you happy?
Explain the business logic of that concept please.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>Go to a coin show the other day when silver is in the $9 range and the cheapest I can buy per OZ is at $ 15.... even a 100 oz/er they wouldn't let go for less than $ 1450.... lol... They erally wanted my peace $ au's for $ 10.50 tho.....
Question.....if there are 99 other people willing to pay that dealer his $15 asking price, what makes you so blessed special that he should sell it to you for less just to make you happy?
Explain the business logic of that concept please.
TD >>
Here Here!!!! What he said...
ok, ok... how about... the 99 others are just stupid for paying $6.00 over spot......
Did I win?
<< <i>ok, ok... how about... the 99 others are just stupid for paying $6.00 over spot......
Did I win?
So other buyers are willing to pay more than you are, and dealers are the bad guys for wanting to sell to them instead of you?
<< <i>Tell me...do you ever call a restuarant owner names when you pay $15 to $20 or more for a meal that cost maybe $5 to make?? I doubt it.
Do you scream at the manager of a dept. store when they sell you clothes at a 200-400% mark-up? (how else do you think they can afford all those big holiday sales?) I doubt it.
>>
I'm not going to get into the argument of paper vs. physical, but you are comparing apples to oranges here. Silver is a traded, market commodity with a market set price. The last time I checked, a ham and cheese omlette with hash browns did not show up on any of my commodities market searches.
Silver sat at $5 an ounce or roughly there about for years and there was no big rush from the public to buy it. When silver hit $12 dollars on it's way up from $5, I was at a coin/jewlry shop and bought 30 oz in 10 oz bars for about $1/oz over spot. This was silver that the dealer most likely bought in that $5/oz range. My guess is, that there is no shortage of physical silver, it's just that now that same dealer is sitting on silver that he bought when it was in $15 range.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>yes dealers are whack! i totally agree. darn them to hades for wanting
to make a buck!! burn!!
;-) >>
Make a buck, great. Suck the marrow out of the bone and gag to death on a bone fragment, not so much. >>
At least FC added a winky...Whitby, I find your post offensive and quite naive.
I just took the time to think it over and feel the need to post my thoughts...
The average show I set up at costs anywhere from $100 to $250 a day...up front expenses...I only do local and regional shows so there is no airfare or hotels... for evey day I spend at a show I usually spend an equal amount of time doing prep for the show... it is not like some fantasy/sci fi movie... we do not magically appear there on the bourse with all our stuff neatly displayed (that would be neat though
We get there early...haul our stuff into the show...set it up and clean/polished the glass and hope for the best...
Most of us are happy just to make our table... profit?... that's a bonus...
BTW...I ain't whinin'... just discussing the REALITY of the average coin show dealer...
Seriously, if I can't make at least $100 a day in clear profit...why in the $%^& should I even bother? Heck, I'd rather play a round of golf or wander around the show and look at the pretty coins
In this thread, we were talking about cheap silver dollars with maybe a $3 margin... and silver with about the same... you have any idea how many such sales I would need to do to make my table?... there ain't enough potential buyers in the room...
No one was talking about sucking marrow...
Maybe there are some sharks out there...there are in every type of business... but the outright verbal violence I encounter on this forum towards dealers in general...well frankly, it sucks rotten eggs...
Tell me...do you ever call a restuarant owner names when you pay $15 to $20 or more for a meal that cost maybe $5 to make?? I doubt it.
Do you scream at the manager of a dept. store when they sell you clothes at a 200-400% mark-up? (how else do you think they can afford all those big holiday sales?) I doubt it.
If you like the price then buy it... if you don't like the offer then don't sell it... NO ONE is twisting anyone's arm folks...
Whooh...glad I got that off my chest...
edited for speloing
I was agreeing with you, however, if you find agreement so offensive and naive, go pound sand. Wanna split hairs, fine by me. I do not know you and thus was trying to echo a sentiment. Maybe its all those folks you screwed that gave you guilt and now you try to get the guilt out by telling me I am offensive and naive???? I do not recall telling you a dam thing.
Make money, fine.
YES, I tell managers at restaurant, I am not paying 15 bucks for a meal I can make for 5. Yup, I dont order it. Thats why God made special unless its a nice place and the wine is a a 75 to 150% mark up which is a a very low market norm on certain types of wine. In short, I can read and I like to cook and yeah, I love great wines. SO.....Sorry, if you are going to screw a person, give them a peck on the cheek.
YES, I tell folks to jam it when you are bending me over, getting the lube and saying 200 to 400% on item x is fine. What item? Look
If you eat at McDonalds and Shop for clothes at Marshalls, WHO CARES????? But sorry man, greed sucks as does your attitude of having the BALLS to even begin this type of questioning to me. >>
Sure didn't sound like agreement to me...be that as it may... I get the feeling that you are the type of buyer that could get me to chuck it all and go play golf... luckily there are more nice collectors out there than not so nice... just like dealers...imagine that...
Please make note of my handle here... I put up a sign at each show I set up at...I am friendly (and mean it) and am receptive and accomadating to all...but I don't take any BS...
unless your additude can soften...and I certainly know that mine can... please do us both a favor and shop elsewhere if we are ever at the same show...
BTW...the only complaints I have ever received at a show (other than from some oldtimer who just had a bad additude in general) has been from other dealers... because some of them think I pay too much and sell too cheap... and I say...too bad about them...
Uhhhh....I am paying you money potentially and you are now telling me about my attitude?!?!?!? Guess what finger I wave bye bye with at any show or place of business? Thats a swell business model there.
Thats special and I think we both agree it would be a very cold day in hell before I gave you money. I also agree, there are other sellers and life goes on. Even with buyers who get told by a seller, oh, I dont like your attitude....Thats tacky and bad business. Thats why the market works the way it does THANK GOD.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Go to a coin show the other day when silver is in the $9 range and the cheapest I can buy per OZ is at $ 15.... even a 100 oz/er they wouldn't let go for less than $ 1450.... lol... They erally wanted my peace $ au's for $ 10.50 tho.....
Question.....if there are 99 other people willing to pay that dealer his $15 asking price, what makes you so blessed special that he should sell it to you for less just to make you happy?
Explain the business logic of that concept please.
TD >>
Here Here!!!! What he said...
WOOO HOO how about the fact that 99 other people walk because they didnt want to get screwed??? I will BUY THE BEER
Or have they disappeared completely?
<< <i>
<< <i>Tell me...do you ever call a restuarant owner names when you pay $15 to $20 or more for a meal that cost maybe $5 to make?? I doubt it.
Do you scream at the manager of a dept. store when they sell you clothes at a 200-400% mark-up? (how else do you think they can afford all those big holiday sales?) I doubt it.
>>
I'm not going to get into the argument of paper vs. physical, but you are comparing apples to oranges here. Silver is a traded, market commodity with a market set price. The last time I checked, a ham and cheese omlette with hash browns did not show up on any of my commodities market searches.
Silver sat at $5 an ounce or roughly there about for years and there was no big rush from the public to buy it. When silver hit $12 dollars on it's way up from $5, I was at a coin/jewlry shop and bought 30 oz in 10 oz bars for about $1/oz over spot. This was silver that the dealer most likely bought in that $5/oz range. My guess is, that there is no shortage of physical silver, it's just that now that same dealer is sitting on silver that he bought when it was in $15 range. >>
Awww man, I was waiting for the speculation on my BLT to go over 50 an ounce. What a buzz kill that is...........Otherwise, yeah, thats about right.
You said:
<< <i>why in the $%^& should I even bother? Heck, I'd rather play a round of golf or wander around the show and look at the pretty coins >>
Oh by the way, I will not be at Parsippany this Sunday to sell you any bullion silver coins. I have to go to a breakfast and then play some golf.
<< <i>90% circulated Walkers and mercs? What are dealers buying and selling them at these days?
Or have they disappeared completely? >>
I have not seen anyone offering any 90% silver for quite a while now. I would be more than willing to buy at spot and sell for a small premium...as a few yahoos here would like me and other dealers to do.
Yet the supply has dried up. The only silver I had to sell in any form was bought back when silver was in the $15 range... there were a few other purchases along the way but it was all immediately sold for a small mark-up.
If someone were to walk up right now with (paper) silver hovering around $9... if anyone were willing to sell at that price...which comes out to just under 6.5xface... I would be happy to flip it for a one-point mark-up to any of my regular (friendly) customers who have been asking for it.
Of course...if I were to find out they were immediately flipping it at a MUCH larger premium down the aisle...it might sour our business relationship a bit. If it is for their personal PM stash then no problem at all.
Plain reality is that this is not happening...supplies have dried up...that is the simple truth of it...
Oh...there have been a few BST offers of 90% at 10x face... which is only a small mark-up to spot
But if all the potential buyers are like a few of the posters here then I guess I'd be pounding sand with my newly acquired silver...
Yeah...sounds like a fine way to spend my time...let me run right out and do that... LOL
And for the record...I have posted this before here on this forum... I am a collector whose collection outgrew my collecting desires...in a big way... I began selling at local/regional shows as a way to sell off my extras for at least what I had into them... one thing led to another and now I have a small business...I also have a FT career in a totally different field...
Coins are still my hobby and I have a personal agreement with myself... as long as buying & selling at shows is fun, I will continue to do it... the moment it becomes a hassle and coins become just a commodity... I'm outta here... I enjoy coins and the time I can spend with other collectors... I have no time for fools or economic bullies...nor any desire to deal with them...
Quite frankly...if every collector was like the one here who has outright verbally assaulted me...I'd get out of this hobby in a flash... luckily, he is a rarity amongst us... hey...maybe we should slab him and put him up for auction...
edited for spelling...oh well...I ain't poifect after all LOL
I will be set up at a show in two weeks , and selling them at $1 over would have pretty much all
dealers and collectors hoovering at my table .
Alas, the shop owner (who does not set the price) has to pay current market , then zing
me a few cents over . Darn those sellers who are not selling at spot! Dont they know we need
inventory?
Supply and demand gone berserk.
Sanity will return . It may be at $944.00 and 17.85 ,or 480.00 and 6.10 .
One 1oz round will be available at my table during Coinfest at spot . I just have to decide who gets it .
Dealer ,collector , OP , or YN.
"A principal of VERY MAJOR bullion firm in Dallas told me that it was likely that some of these contracts for future delivery would be in default, because the physical metals do not exist in quantities sold in advance."
Frank "Devlin McGregor" Provasek. How in the world would Chris (or his boss Billy) at Dallas Gold & Silver know anything about the futures market. They've been singing that same song for a while now.
Anyway, what you assert is impossible. Futures contracts are marked to market continuously (i.e. MORE THAN every day). Any inability to deliver gets covered by the continual marking to market as well as the clearing firms backup guarantee that the contract will be performed upon. These firms would cause the contracts to be closed prior to first notice day if there was any question either of the account holders ability to pay OR to deliver. As long as equity in the account was sufficient to buy the same contract one was short (thereby closing out the short contract & avoiding the requirement to deliver) your scenario could not ever happen.
More reasons why Frank is wrong: LINK
See "Delivery Versus Payment": "The acronym for DVP (delivery versus payment), or transactions in which there is simultaneous transfer of cash and securities following the trade. A basic feature of automated clearing and settlement, DVP reduces risk significantly: today fewer than 0.25% of all DVP instructions presented for settlement fail, on average, and even these are automatically recycled for settlement."
FYI:
Mini Silver (1000oz) NYSE Liffe (YIX8) November contract: Bid 8.920 Ask 8.975
First Notice Day 10/31/08. Last Trading Day 11/25/08. Initial Margin $2,592. Maintainance Margin $1,920.
Last Trading Day (In general): The business day immediately preceding the last two business days of the contract month.
Last Delivery Day (In general): The last business day of the delivery month.
Mini-Silver Delivery Specs, More Contract Specs
Why in the world NOT take delivery at this price if you're looking at buying at least (or any multiple of) 1000 ounces?
Ignorance is the only possible answer.
See Also CBOT Mini Silver
Exchange Minimum Margin Requirements
Speculation and physical reality are 2 very different things.
Look at oil, or silver when it was over 30 an ounce....yeah, wooo, we are almost totally out of silver..........RIIIIIIIIIIIGHT