Jay, thanks for the report and the pictures. Just seeing some tangible evidence of these incredible coins is really neat -- especially the 1933 and those superb 1927-D Saints.
I saw the 1849 $20, 1804 $1s, and the High Reliefs when they were on display at the Smithsonian "castle". I thought the lighting was terrible and it made the coins look washed out. They look better in the slabs on your cameraphone!
<< <i>So was this the greatest assembly of coins, you have ever seen? >>
You're kidding, right? >>
Other than Mad Marty's Slickathon???
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Thanks for that wonderful post SG. I have a thread going; "your most breathtaking numistmatic experience". Many great stories of personal experiences but none comes close to yours. Thanks for the great naration and the pics, even if they weren't the best. Just hard to imagine holding any of those in my hot little hands!! JET
It is health that is real wealth, not pieces of gold and silver. Gandhi.
I collect all 20th century series except gold including those series that ended there.
Posts like this make me never want to start a thread. Simply some amazing company on these boards. I'm just happy to have had a few personal conversations with some.
I remember when I was a kid they had much, much more of the collection on public display than they do now.
We didn't get to touch any of it though. But perhaps that was for the best.
The Smithsonian is one of the perks of growing up in the DC area -- we averaged a field trip a month there in elementary and junior high school. (Once you're in high school they scale back the field trips.)
Me at the Springfield coin show: 60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
I don't want to spread any wealth, I'd just like a chance to see the wealth someday. While it is really cool that saintguru is kind enough to share his experience with all of us, I think it's really really sad that most of us who don't have the right connections will likely never see those coins, even though we all own them... I'm not even sure if there's a place online or in print to see photos of the entire Smithsonian collection. Surely the public should be able to view photos of these coins at a minimum!!
<< <i>........PS.. Many, many thanks To Jeff Garrett for arranging this for the 20th Century Gold Club. He is an extraodinary knowledgeable man and a fun guy to be around!....... >>
Could you contact Jeff Garrett that the 19th Century Gold Club is now asking for equal time?
It has been some time since I viewed some the national collection. It seems that despite the value all the coins should in some fashion be available for viewing by the public or at the least photographed and available as a Library of Congress available for the education and pleasue of the public. After all they are ours. Perhaps there is a plan to do either or both of these. I would be interested in the Smithsonian strategy.
**the raw coins are just in those litle boxes, raw. You could drop one and ruin it. Until recently ALL of the coins were like that! They need protection. I swear I saw Andy Lustig's greasy thumprint on a proof Seated Dollar!
**There's no climate control that I was aware of. The "vault" was so un-vault, IMO, that like I said, it apppeared to be an supply room more than anything else! Apparantly, until maybe 5 years ago it was a total unorganized mess until they brought in some top numismatists, Garrett among them, to start inventorying the coins. It's still 80% confusion with all those cabinets. I saw coins that were 1797 F-15 next to a similar coin that was MS64RB! There's a lot of work top get it organized.
**The security was minimal once you got past the unimposing guard desk. Now how one would get access to this area is a question but once past the sign-in it was a mere walk to another group of rooms. There were security cameras but that was it. No square-chinned Marines standing at guard with locked and loaded M-16's and fixed bayonettes as you entered the vauly. Just a rather flimsy aluminum gate with 1" flat bars that wouldn't keep a group of 12 year olds out. No shake-downs, no wands, no coin counts...I had the overwhelming feeling that if you were there you were trusted and I hope not naiively believed. Odd, but in this case, absolutely appropriate. (three of the 5 people in our group don't need another dime for the rest of their lives. That left me and Ray, and I know I have not coins to take better pics of today! ) Could someone have snuck out a coin? I would say probably yes, UNLESS, by some strange change of style they had Las Vegas type surveillance in the sky. The fact is that I felt so honored to handle these National Treasures that it would seem like an act of treason to even think of taking anything. And lets's face it...what coin would make doing Federal time worth it? I have an 8-figure rule. $10 mil or more and I'll pay the time. That means a mini UHR, 1849 DE or a 1877 fifty. A million$$ coin ain't worth the "stagecoach" in Marion Federal pen in Illinois. Wooo-owwww! The big coins were probably being watched careful by Deputy Barney Garrett. His ASS was on the hook, IMO. "He brought me officer!"
**I'm not going to start pissing about who gets in the vault because of who knows who. That's life. Jeff Garrett was invited to be an Associate Member of our small club because of his knowledge (as was David Akers, David Hall, John Albanese, JD, Doug Winter, Roger Burdette, Kevin Lipton, Mike Moran and Mark Salzberg) Out of the blue, Jeff offered the invitation at our inaugural meeting last year and that was that. We were overwhelmed by the offer. I'm sorry that it's not available to te public but I'm certainly not sorry that I got a ticket to the greatest coin show on earth. No more than I envied the astronauts when I was a kid. They were lucky, that's life.
I suspect the opportunity is open to anyone - if you do your homework and show up at the NNC every week to look at stuff, AND contribute some research and organization to the collection, you will get access. You would probably need some credentials to get in initially (publications, academic references, etc.). Garrett's work on the collection is obvious, so there is no way I would interpret this as some kind of inside connection not available to all who deserve it.
During World War II, my grandfather was stationed in the Pentagon for a period of time as a secretary for a three-star general handling confidential and sensitive materials and paperwork. He told me a story as a child of once coming into contact with 10 $100,000 bills that were used for inter-governmental reasons. He vividly remembered that the reverses of the bills were orange! Seeing the picture of that note you had the pleasure of holding, along with so many other rare treasures, made me very happy and gave me another reason in this hobby to honor his memory, as he was the person to introduce me to coin collecting (he passed away in 2002). Thanks so much for your time and effort to post those photos and the story with it!
There is quite a bit more to security at the Smithsonian than is obvious to visitors or researchers.
As for seeing the NNC, staff are working on ways to display more parts of the collection. Researchers have to be vetted with the curators to ensure they have a purpose in examining the coins and currency, and that they know how to handle the items. Small groups of specialist visitors are also accommodated on occasion, although there isn’t enough staff to do this very often.
Consider this, also – a pattern piece such as the 1877 $50 is both priceless and worthless. It has no value outside of the Smithsonian. The same applies to nearly everything else there.
Neat report...it brings back memories of August 2004 when a few of us were invited to help take down the Smithsonian numismatic displays (except for a few). Imagine those wonderful coins (plus many others) sitting out in the vault, raw, for any of us to handle. It was an amazing experience!
Lane
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
For the average slug you can get a feel for what's in the gold collection in the following books, Sylloge of the United States Holdings in the National Numismatic Collection of the Smithsonian Institution: Volume One, Gold Coins, 1785-1834 by Cory Gillill and and Encyclopedia of U.S. Gold Coins: 1795 - 1933, Circulating, Proof, Commemorative, and Pattern Issues by Jeff Garrett, Ron Guth, and Richard Doty.
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
I saw the display they had in 1980 and it, too, was very memorable.
They had the clad coins to date but they were just pathetic. All of them were poorly struck and in the lighting they had they even appeared light- ly circulated. Perhaps they really had been mishandled though.
The Denver mint "museum" was the only place in those days where you could find decent moderns on display.
Great post, the coins are amazing ! My kids loved the 100,000 bill. I have a question, I am going to DC this summer, what, if anything, can I expect to see at the SMITHSONIAN in the way of coins.
<< <i>Great post, the coins are amazing ! My kids loved the 100,000 bill. I have a question, I am going to DC this summer, what, if anything, can I expect to see at the SMITHSONIAN in the way of coins. >>
How the hell did Rutgers kill Pitt? :} JB Pitt '76
Comments
your report warmed this oldmans heart.
thank you very much for taking the time to share.
Bill
I saw the 1849 $20, 1804 $1s, and the High Reliefs when they were on display at the Smithsonian "castle". I thought the lighting was terrible and it made the coins look washed out. They look better in the slabs on your cameraphone!
seeing these in a book is cold. seeing them in the hand of someone you can identify with humanizes them and makes them very real.
I took the pics for you people.
Are these coins viewable for the public? I don't even own a Saint, can't imagine holding 3 27D's, in high MS.
The Wilson 100,000 dollar bill is moving. I would guess that these never circulated.
Let's not forget the double eagle stuck on a $10 dollar planchet, WOW.
So was this the greatest assembly of coins, you have ever seen?
Again awesome thread!
Scott
national treasures, but I'll look at the reality of your experience as the pot stirrer here. With our national
debt in the hundreds of trillions of dollars continuing to grow unchecked, what makes you believe that a
few hundred million worth of numismatic properties(of the government) will be preserved in perpetuity for
the rest of us peons to hope to ever get a glimpse of, much less hold in hand?
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
<< <i>Sainty, I can appreciate your willingness and exuberance to share your little club's privileged access to
national treasures, but I'll look at the reality of your experience as the pot stirrer here. With our national
debt in the hundreds of trillions of dollars continuing to grow unchecked, what makes you believe that a
few hundred million worth of numismatic properties(of the government) will be preserved in perpetuity for
the rest of us peons to hope to ever get a glimpse of, much less hold in hand? >>
Go eat an egg.
<< <i>So was this the greatest assembly of coins, you have ever seen? >>
You're kidding, right?
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
<< <i>
<< <i>So was this the greatest assembly of coins, you have ever seen? >>
You're kidding, right?
Other than Mad Marty's Slickathon???
Who's the pot stirrer? >>
Maybe someone who wants to "spread the wealth"
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
I have a thread going; "your most breathtaking numistmatic experience".
Many great stories of personal experiences but none comes close to yours.
Thanks for the great naration and the pics, even if they weren't the best.
Just hard to imagine holding any of those in my hot little hands!!
JET
I collect all 20th century series except gold including those series that ended there.
We didn't get to touch any of it though.
The Smithsonian is one of the perks of growing up in the DC area -- we averaged a field trip a month there in elementary and junior high school. (Once you're in high school they scale back the field trips.)
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i> >>
Who's the pot stirrer? >>
Maybe someone who wants to "spread the wealth" >>
I don't want to spread any wealth, I'd just like a chance to see the wealth someday. While it is really cool that saintguru is kind enough to share his experience with all of us, I think it's really really sad that most of us who don't have the right connections will likely never see those coins, even though we all own them... I'm not even sure if there's a place online or in print to see photos of the entire Smithsonian collection. Surely the public should be able to view photos of these coins at a minimum!!
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Simply awesome. Thanks,
You said:
<< <i>........PS.. Many, many thanks To Jeff Garrett for arranging this for the 20th Century Gold Club. He is an extraodinary knowledgeable man and a fun guy to be around!....... >>
Could you contact Jeff Garrett that the 19th Century Gold Club is now asking for equal time?
The Liberty Head Design is so awesome!
I was wondering about this holder. Is it just an open tray or is there a cover that keeps the coin in place?
Did Albanese bring any stickers along?
Thanks for the report.
RYK
PS Next time invite Goodman along.
Incredible post, thanks for the up close, exclusive and personal tour of some of our nation's finest rarities.
Certainly the BEST post I've read here since I've joined these boards.
It will be tough to top this one......CONGRATS again on your once in a lifetime experience!!!!
I'm suprised you were even permitted to take pics, or have any electronic device around million dollar specimens.
Again, thanks for the report, and the pics.
Scott
It seems that despite the value all the coins should in some fashion be available for viewing by the public or at the least photographed and available as a Library of Congress available for the education and pleasue of the public. After all they are ours.
Perhaps there is a plan to do either or both of these.
I would be interested in the Smithsonian strategy.
Link
You can view the National Numismatic Collection online, with full color photographs.
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**There's no climate control that I was aware of. The "vault" was so un-vault, IMO, that like I said, it apppeared to be an supply room more than anything else! Apparantly, until maybe 5 years ago it was a total unorganized mess until they brought in some top numismatists, Garrett among them, to start inventorying the coins. It's still 80% confusion with all those cabinets. I saw coins that were 1797 F-15 next to a similar coin that was MS64RB! There's a lot of work top get it organized.
**The security was minimal once you got past the unimposing guard desk. Now how one would get access to this area is a question but once past the sign-in it was a mere walk to another group of rooms. There were security cameras but that was it. No square-chinned Marines standing at guard with locked and loaded M-16's and fixed bayonettes as you entered the vauly.
**I'm not going to start pissing about who gets in the vault because of who knows who. That's life. Jeff Garrett was invited to be an Associate Member of our small club because of his knowledge (as was David Akers, David Hall, John Albanese, JD, Doug Winter, Roger Burdette, Kevin Lipton, Mike Moran and Mark Salzberg) Out of the blue, Jeff offered the invitation at our inaugural meeting last year and that was that. We were overwhelmed by the offer. I'm sorry that it's not available to te public but I'm certainly not sorry that I got a ticket to the greatest coin show on earth. No more than I envied the astronauts when I was a kid. They were lucky, that's life.
And a great write-up too.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>Glorious, Jay!
And a great write-up too. >>
Paragraphs and stuff?
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. What a tremendous opportunity you all had. Congrats.
Richard
As for seeing the NNC, staff are working on ways to display more parts of the collection. Researchers have to be vetted with the curators to ensure they have a purpose in examining the coins and currency, and that they know how to handle the items. Small groups of specialist visitors are also accommodated on occasion, although there isn’t enough staff to do this very often.
Consider this, also – a pattern piece such as the 1877 $50 is both priceless and worthless. It has no value outside of the Smithsonian. The same applies to nearly everything else there.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Wanna bet?
<< <i>It has no value outside of the Smithsonian.
Wanna bet?
Exactly, even a small fish like me would mortgage everything to place a bid on some of those pieces...
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
They had the clad coins to date but they were just pathetic. All of them
were poorly struck and in the lighting they had they even appeared light-
ly circulated. Perhaps they really had been mishandled though.
The Denver mint "museum" was the only place in those days where you
could find decent moderns on display.
Thanks for the post.
<< <i>saintguru, I don't recall seeing your mention of having had that full body cavity search as the end of your visit
I just went to the dentist. No cavities.
Roger...I'm sure the security is there...and I certainly don't want to promote a heist.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
<< <i>Great post, the coins are amazing ! My kids loved the 100,000 bill. I have a question, I am going to DC this summer, what, if anything, can I expect to see at the SMITHSONIAN in the way of coins. >>
How the hell did Rutgers kill Pitt? :}
JB Pitt '76