Buying Silver Certificates circa 1968

fastcoin · October 22, 2008 6:05AM

Below is a picture taken sometime in 1968 at my Los Angeles office. On June 24, 1968 Congress halted the redemption of all silver certificates for silver. As a result, we were very busy buying and selling vast quantities of silver certificates. To give you an idea of the magnitude of activity, we were buying and selling over $1,000,000 worth of silver certificates each week. That's in 1968 dollars, by the way. If you have questions, please feel free to ask..... Joel, Sr.

Smittys · October 22, 2008 6:09AM

I find it hard to believe JMHO

fastcoin · October 22, 2008 6:49AM

<< I find it hard to believe JMHO >>

We had large ads in the Los Angeles Times consistently during that time and, as a direct result, we had customers lined out door all day, every day, seven days per week. If you were around during the Great Silver Run of 1980, you would find it easier to believe. With regard to the silver market in 1980, we were doing $1,000,000 per DAY.

Smittys · October 22, 2008 6:51AM

based on your web site and ebay , I don't see a million dollar business
But hey i could be wrong
at the high thats forty bags a silver per day
and i was around during the eighties and again I find it hard to believe

Amigo · October 22, 2008 6:53AM

I am a believer. Neat photo. I wished I had enough sense back then to cash in all my SC's, not that it was that many though.

Welcome to the board. It bumps the average age up a little bit

IwantNonCCs · October 22, 2008 6:54AM

"On June 24, 1968 Congress halted the redemption of all silver certificates for silver. As a result, we were very busy buying and selling vast quantities of silver certificates. To give you an idea of the magnitude of activity, we were buying and selling over $1,000,000 worth of silver certificates each week. That's in 1968 dollars, by the way. If you have questions, please feel free to ask..... Joel, Sr."

Please explain. You had customers ready to purchase $1M/week at a premium AFTER the congress halted redemption?? Sorry, I am not old enough to remember, but I don't understand people paying a premium for the silver certificates after redemption stopped.

fastcoin · October 22, 2008 7:05AM

<< "On June 24, 1968 Congress halted the redemption of all silver certificates for silver. As a result, we were very busy buying and selling vast quantities of silver certificates. To give you an idea of the magnitude of activity, we were buying and selling over $1,000,000 worth of silver certificates each week. That's in 1968 dollars, by the way. If you have questions, please feel free to ask..... Joel, Sr."

Please explain. You had customers ready to purchase $1M/week at a premium AFTER the congress halted redemption?? Sorry, I am not old enough to remember, but I don't understand people paying a premium for the silver certificates after redemption stopped. >>

I never said that we bought the silver certificates AFTER the redemption deadline. The deadline, as set by Congress, was June 24, 1968. The announcement was made exactly one year prior to the deadline, so for that year......up to June 24, 1968.....we were busy buying silver certificates at a premium. Some sellers didn't want to sell the $1 silver certificates at our premium offer. Instead they decided to hold them, hoping they would increase in value. Unfortunately for those individuals, each silver certificate was only worth $1 after the deadline had pasted. It was an interesting time for our business. By the way, I was 30 years old and my son (the little guy with the toy gun in the photoe) was 4 at the time.

Smittys · October 22, 2008 7:05AM

Given in 1968 the Average income was 5700.00, and most people would have a hard time having 500.00 in saving much less Silver certificates
But you were dealing with 2000 people with 500 silver certificates each per week
Again not trying to put you down but the numbers seem high
Editted to say I was alive in 1967 when my mom redeemed the silver certificates at the bank, no big lines

fastcoin · October 22, 2008 7:09AM

<< based on your web site and ebay , I don't see a million dollar business
But hey i could be wrong
at the high thats forty bags a silver per day
and i was around during the eighties and again I find it hard to believe >>

The dollar figures I quoted were for 1968 and 1980, not today. However, we still run a multi-million dollar per year business. The aforementioned years were boom periods and hobby veterans would have no trouble believing what I posted. Just ask David Hall, Leon Hendrickson, Larry Shepard (who, btw, submitted his coins through us during the early days of PCGS).

mrearlygold · October 22, 2008 7:13AM

Welcome Joel, I had the line out my place back in 1980. Never got to a million a day then but I DID get 25% of the way there. And I was in a little town in southern New Jersey back then.

Cool pic from 1968. Thanks for posting it.

SportsModerator · October 22, 2008 7:18AM

I remember those days well. There was even a coin shop on Wilshire Blvd. in Santa Monica that changed its name to The Silver Redemption Center (making it sound somewhat official! LOL). There were lines out the door down the sidewalk of average folks cashing in. I think that the premium got as high as 1.68 if my memory still functions. Crazy days!

fastcoin · October 22, 2008 7:26AM

<< Welcome Joel, I had the line out my place back in 1980. Never got to a million a day then but I DID get 25% of the way there. And I was in a little town in southern New Jersey back then.

Cool pic from 1968. Thanks for posting it. >>

Thank you for the welcome Tom. As you pointed out in your post, one's geographical locations--and level of advertising--had a direct correlation to the level of business. My office was in LA, one of the three major population centers in the U.S.

In 1980 we were selling bags of 90% silver for $35,000 per bag. And we were able to sell more bags each than we could buy. I constantly asked myself how we could buy more bags and one day I realized that they were selling 10-bag contracts on the exchange at the time. So, I called my broker and made an offer for a 10-bag contract. He asked me, "what month do you want to buy for." I informed him that I wanted the delivery asap and he said "oh, you want the cash forward." Each contract was $320K, so I asked for two contracts ($640K for 20 bags). I walked across the street to his office and handed him the cash. In those days we could have $640,000 in cash and actually hand the money to someone in exchange for goods. Today you cannot... We had automatic bill counting machines at the time to handle all of the cash in and out. Three days later Brinks pulled up with my 20 bags and they were all sold by the end of the day--actually before lunch! I called my broker and told him that I needed more of the 'cash forward' deals. That's we did in those good ol' days.

Joel

jfoot13 · October 22, 2008 7:28AM

<< 

<< I find it hard to believe JMHO >>

We had large ads in the Los Angeles Times consistently during that time and, as a direct result, we had customers lined out door all day, every day, seven days per week. If you were around during the Great Silver Run of 1980, you would find it easier to believe. With regard to the silver market in 1980, we were doing $1,000,000 per DAY. >>

just before Christmas in 1979 I purchased a hoard of
franklin mint ingots from an older gentleman for 110K called Madison Coin locked the price put it in the car, drove down and sold it for 125K.. buy/sell that's over a quarter million in about an hour and people were lined up for blocks with duffel bags of silver and gold.. I believe you.... those were crazy times

fastcoin · October 22, 2008 7:31AM

<< I remember those days well. There was even a coin shop on Wilshire Blvd. in Santa Monica that changed its name to The Silver Redemption Center (making it sound somewhat official! LOL). There were lines out the door down the sidewalk of average folks cashing in. I think that the premium got as high as 1.68 if my memory still functions. Crazy days! >>

Yes, I do remember that dealer changing his store name to The Silver Redemption Center. We paid from $1.55 to $1.68, depending on the quantity. If I remember correctly there were two government redemption centers -- one on the East Coast and one on the West Coast (San Francisco) -- were the public or dealers could redeem silver certificates for either silver granules or silver bars that were 0.996 pure. I am still offered some of those government bars today. They are marked with a grease pencil to identify their random weights. For example 111.16 ounces.

SportsModerator · October 22, 2008 7:40AM

1.68! After 40 years, still remember down to the last penny. My mind hasn't gone, contrary to what many of you think!

Cladiator · October 22, 2008 7:59AM

TAClough · October 22, 2008 8:34AM

<< 1.68! After 40 years, still remember down to the last penny. My mind hasn't gone, contrary to what many of you think! >>

lathmach · October 22, 2008 8:43AM

<< 1.68! After 40 years, still remember down to the last penny. My mind hasn't gone, contrary to what many of you think! >>

I can remember things from 40 years ago too.
Do you remember what you did this morning?

Ray

LanLord · October 22, 2008 8:50AM

<< 

<< 1.68! After 40 years, still remember down to the last penny. My mind hasn't gone, contrary to what many of you think! >>

I can remember things from 40 years ago too.
Do you remember what you did this morning?

Ray >>

THis morning? When was that?

DorkGirl · October 22, 2008 9:16AM

This has been a fun read, thanks for sharing.

coinkat · October 22, 2008 9:23AM

It was a different time, but even in 1968 the greater LA METRO area had a population of at least 5 million if one includes Long Beach, Orange County and the SF Valley. Thanks for posting

rgCoinGuy · October 22, 2008 9:33AM

<< This has been a fun read, thanks for sharing.

>>

cinman14 · October 22, 2008 9:40AM

modern history version....

BECOKA · October 22, 2008 9:49AM

I remember pulling silver certs out of circulation as a kid in the 70's. Did not realize there was a rush to get them at a premium from the public. Seems like it would have been a losing battle to pay a premium.

Whitby · October 22, 2008 9:51AM

<< Below is a picture taken sometime in 1968 at my Los Angeles office. On June 24, 1968 Congress halted the redemption of all silver certificates for silver. As a result, we were very busy buying and selling vast quantities of silver certificates. To give you an idea of the magnitude of activity, we were buying and selling over $1,000,000 worth of silver certificates each week. That's in 1968 dollars, by the way. If you have questions, please feel free to ask..... Joel, Sr.

>>

My grandmother was probably in that line. I have a SC star note which I cherish from her.

goose3 · October 22, 2008 10:09AM

is that Fred Gwynne with the pipe? I would have thought The Munsters paid better.

mrearlygold · October 22, 2008 11:04AM

A friend of my brothers bought a brand new Corvette from my Father in 1969, I think the price was $4500.00 ( it was under 5K, for some reason I remember $4500. Big block, burgundy color. )

That should help put some of the numbers here in context

thebeav · October 22, 2008 12:57PM

Great story and photo !

Swampboy · October 22, 2008 1:30PM

The premiums mentioned by fastcoin and Otis jogged my memory.
I couldn't remember at the time of Woody's Silver thread but now I remember getting $1.30 from my friend Harry who was starting out in the coin biz.
He mentioned something about I was supposed to have 100 of them to get that premium.
I think we had about fifty certificates total.

ProofArtworkonCircs · October 22, 2008 2:49PM

$1.68 per dollar does sound familiar. I had some keepers and no surplus to turn in. The church janitor had a $10 SC he was going to turn in. I matched the premium and bought his. $10 SC's weren't that common. I still don't know if it was a smart move or not. I was thinking SC's would be rare (all turned in) after the excitement, but there were still many survivors.

blu62vette · October 22, 2008 2:57PM

<< A friend of my brothers bought a brand new Corvette from my Father in 1969, I think the price was $4500.00 ( it was under 5K, for some reason I remember $4500. Big block, burgundy color. )

That should help put some of the numbers here in context

>>

That is a lot less than I paid for my vette!!!

Neat pic, why does it look like Joel Jr. is holding a gun (I know he isn't but that was my first thought)? What is in his hands?

fastcoin · October 22, 2008 3:00PM

Neat pic, why does it look like Joel Jr. is holding a gun (I know he isn't but that was my first thought)? What is in his hands?

Well, in fact he is holding a gun, but it was a toy gun.

blu62vette · October 22, 2008 3:04PM

<< Neat pic, why does it look like Joel Jr. is holding a gun (I know he isn't but that was my first thought)? What is in his hands?

Well, in fact he is holding a gun, but it was a toy gun. >>

Glad you had security on hand!

GrumpyEd · October 22, 2008 3:23PM

Was the reason they paid for them with the silver pellets so they could adjust the amount as silver prices changed?

Neat pic and story.

jhdfla · October 22, 2008 4:02PM

<< Welcome Joel, I had the line out my place back in 1980. Never got to a million a day then but I DID get 25% of the way there. And I was in a little town in southern New Jersey back then.

Cool pic from 1968. Thanks for posting it. >>

Hi Tom, small world, I'm from the same area originally. Then I'm sure you recall Pep Levin in Pennsauken and his antics at Rochester Formal Wear. My grandfather was a tailor there and in on some of the shenanigans... fortunately he passed away long before Pep moved into food stamps...

john

VTCoins · October 22, 2008 10:29PM

Classic pic!

FredWeinberg · October 23, 2008 12:37AM

Although I was only 18 years old in 1968, what Joel describes
occured, not only in LA, but throughout the country, especially
on both coasts. I was an observer, not a participant, although
I was a coin collector at the time.

Steve Markoff, of A-Mark fame, was another VERY aggressive dealer
buying these certificates, and flying up to SF to redeem for the
Silver Bars - called "grease bars" at the time. (they were poured
bars, not struck bars).

That time frame, as well as 1979/80 was absolute craziness !!

ProofArtworkonCircs · October 23, 2008 12:56AM

<<Was the reason they paid for them with the silver pellets so they could adjust the amount as silver prices changed?>>

No, silver certificate redemption was fixed price at the rate of $1.292929292 per fine troy ounce or .7734375 ounces per dollar.

I think one reason for the silver pellets was to discourage people from redeeming individual dollars. Actually if they did make a piece of the proper weight, that would just set off another collecting frenzy. So, perhaps the government did not have much choice there.

I remember some enterprising soul selling a silver souvenir board consisting of a silver certificate, silver dollar and silver granules. But it was not $1* worth of granules. He was pocketing quite a bit of that.

* Edited to add - perhaps it was one dollar's worth of silver at the then current price, but less than what the $1 silver certificate yielded.

ElKevvo · October 23, 2008 1:05AM

Cool stuff! Thanks for sharing the photo and the stories!

K

mrearlygold · October 23, 2008 1:58AM

<< 

<< Welcome Joel, I had the line out my place back in 1980. Never got to a million a day then but I DID get 25% of the way there. And I was in a little town in southern New Jersey back then.

Cool pic from 1968. Thanks for posting it. >>

Hi Tom, small world, I'm from the same area originally. Then I'm sure you recall Pep Levin in Pennsauken and his antics at Rochester Formal Wear. My grandfather was a tailor there and in on some of the shenanigans... fortunately he passed away long before Pep moved into food stamps...

john >>

Hey John,

Actually I was a little deeper South than y'all

I was one town over from here:

Great thread

blue594 · October 23, 2008 2:57AM

I really enjoy threads like this, I could read them all day. Love the picture. Thanks for sharing.

John

numisma · November 7, 2008 8:41AM

Speaking of silver certifiecates, I stopped by Joel's office yesterday and saw a nice group of silver certificates, as well as a ton of neat Civil War notes.

PutTogether · November 7, 2008 11:20AM

I was in a bullion exhange place the other day in the LA area and in the fifteen or so minutes I was there watched over 60K change hands in one way or another. One woman bought 5 100g bars of gold, a guy bought 4 1000oz bars of silver, and a lady was selling a ROLL of saints.

Actually that is more than that. figure 40K in silver they were buying saints @ 955 and 100g gold was selling @2700 if you bought five.

So that is just over 72K total.

Given that, it is EASY to believe 1 Million a week a year before congress stopped redemption on silver certificates, even IN 1968 money. That was a neat story by the way.

fastcoin · November 11, 2008 8:34AM

<< I was in a bullion exhange place the other day in the LA area and in the fifteen or so minutes I was there watched over 60K change hands in one way or another. One woman bought 5 100g bars of gold, a guy bought 4 1000oz bars of silver, and a lady was selling a ROLL of saints.

Actually that is more than that. figure 40K in silver they were buying saints @ 955 and 100g gold was selling @2700 if you bought five.

So that is just over 72K total.

Given that, it is EASY to believe 1 Million a week a year before congress stopped redemption on silver certificates, even IN 1968 money. That was a neat story by the way. >>

PutTogether, thanks for the post. Given the current economic climate, we may be seeing more days like we did in the early 80s with the silver boom.

golfer72 · November 11, 2008 8:43AM

Very interesting thread. Love the historical stuff and the photos. Thanks everyone.

OTHERCOINS · November 26, 2008 8:50AM

Great article. I wish we can get on the magic carpet and go back to 1968.

CertifiedGoldCoins · November 26, 2008 10:35AM

Gresham's Law on steroids.

Buying Silver Certificates circa 1968

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