Fraud Alert- Sacagawea Dollar on a Cent Planchet PCGS MS-66

FredWeinberg · October 22, 2008 12:25AM

There is an Ebay listing, ending tomorrow, for the following coin:

Ebay Item # 160293377770
2000 Sacagawea Dollar PCGS MS-66
Struck on a Cent Planchet

I sold this unique coin to a customer at the ANA
in Baltimore last July. (Gem Red and Lusterous)

Called the customer two days ago, after I saw the
listing, and he was out of town - He just called me
this morning, and said that he still has the coin, and
has NO intention of selling it.

The seller is in Calif, with about 123 feedbacks. Seller
has sold a few expensive coins, but if you check his
buyer's feedback, they've only bought radio parts/equipment
before....

I reported it to Ebay yesterday morning (Tues), but as of
this morning, no action has been taken. One of the bidders
also made a report, so there's at least two, but no action
taken by Ebay.

If you are bidding on it, or know anyone bidding on it, please
warn them. The coin is in my customers hands on the East
Coast, and is not for sale, especially on Ebay.

Fair warning, I hope.......

AUandAG · October 22, 2008 12:29AM

here's the LInk

Fred, how this joker get a picture of this coin? Not sold in an auction but in person?
Strange that he would know that it even existed let alone what the coin looked like.

PS: Has your customer checked his safe yet?

bob

UtahCoin · October 22, 2008 12:31AM

I just asked the seller to send me additional pictures.....

Dog97 · October 22, 2008 12:34AM

Where did he get the pictures of someone else's coin from?

19Lyds · October 22, 2008 12:35AM

<< here's the LInk

Fred, how this joker get a picture of this coin? Not sold in an auction but in person?
Strange that he would know that it even existed let alone what the coin looked like.

PS: Has your customer checked his safe yet?

bob >>

I'm curious to know this as well.

FredWeinberg · October 22, 2008 12:40AM

I don't know the answer to how he got
the pictures - and good ones, too!

All I know is that when I saw the listing
Monday morning, I knew it wasn't real,
but I waited till I heard directly from the
owner of the coin, this morning, that he
has it, and is not selling it.

Res · October 22, 2008 12:42AM

Now your customer will get to see what the market is for his coin without actually putting it up. (At least until it's poof'd)

FredWeinberg · October 22, 2008 12:44AM

I just realized where the photos came from:

I bought the coin on Ebay, already slabbed by
PCGS, in the spring.

His photos have to have come from the original
eBay listing.

I know of at least three bidders who have removed
their bids, so whatever it closes for will NOT be the
market for the coin.

seanq · October 22, 2008 12:50AM

<< I just realized where the photos came from:

I bought the coin on Ebay, already slabbed by
PCGS, in the spring.

His photos have to have come from the original
eBay listing.

I know of at least three bidders who have removed
their bids, so whatever it closes for will NOT be the
market for the coin. >>

I vaguely remembered seeing the coin on eBay before, and I went back through some old bookmarks, but the listing is long gone. That's a pretty patient scammer to sit on those pics for months before running his auction.

I assume you confirmed the cert number on the eBay auction is identical to the coin you sold.

Sean Reynolds

CaptHenway · October 22, 2008 1:12AM

I sent him a question saying that there is talk on the internet saying that he stole the pictures and does not have the coin to sell, and how do you respond to that?
Will report his answer, if any.
TD

ctf_error_coins · October 22, 2008 1:18AM

Thank you Fred, that coin was on my watch list even tho it was out of my price range.

Great catch, research, and follow up.

Some of my most prized coins came you.

Thanks again Fred.

ErrorsOnCoins Chris

messydesk · October 22, 2008 1:20AM

Reported. Since he's not a power seller, maybe they'll take action before the auction ends.

jdillane · October 22, 2008 1:31AM

While I was not watching this one, kudos on the heads up!

19Lyds · October 22, 2008 1:34AM

<< I just realized where the photos came from:

I bought the coin on Ebay, already slabbed by
PCGS, in the spring.

His photos have to have come from the original
eBay listing.

I know of at least three bidders who have removed
their bids, so whatever it closes for will NOT be the
market for the coin. >>

Thanks Fred. That satisfies my curiosity.

As for being a patient scammer, anybody can save those pictures for later use, this fella got caught!

Dog97 · October 22, 2008 1:37AM

<<>>
You sure? The bidders list doesn't presently show any retractions.

OPA · October 22, 2008 1:39AM

<< <<>>
You sure? The bidders list doesn't presently show any retractions. >>

Is it time for scumnuker to make an appearance?

Sunshine Rare Coins · October 22, 2008 1:40AM

i saw that coin in baltimore, and its amazing!

HTubbs · October 22, 2008 1:51AM

Take a look at his completed listings, he sold two very high end/high value coins, I wonder if these pictures were stolen too? Anyway to check on those?

jdillane · October 22, 2008 1:56AM

<< Take a look at his completed listings, he sold two very high end/high value coins, I wonder if these pictures were stolen too? Anyway to check on those? >>

I noticed that too. He got positive fb on those transactions from 2 diff ebayers with more than nominal fb so they sure seem legit.

I asked if he would agree to use escrow.com. No reply yet.

Any chance this is simply another specimen of the error?

partagas · October 22, 2008 2:01AM

Hayden,

I noticed the unusual pattern of nice sales that appear to be legit. Three different buyers for decent coins and the 1845 dollar was some serious cash.

I would think someone has hijacked this account. Which makes this potential sale all the more convincing based on the recent feedback.

SUMORADA · October 22, 2008 2:01AM

In the listing it states that the company is NT Collectibles, and says check our feedback, here is what you get when you click it...Link

here it is http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=nt_collectibles&ftab=AllFeedback

nt_collectibles ( 2037) Not a registered user
Positive Feedback (last 12 months): 77.8%

seanq · October 22, 2008 2:08AM

Okay, gang, here's some more evidence: Same seller a fwe weeks ago sold an 1845 Seated Dollar in PCGS MS62:

Auction link

Here are the pictures from that auction:

Now go look in the current PCGS Registry at the current finest set of Seated Dollars, Nature's Miracles. Here are pics of his 1845 in PCGS MS62:

Same coin folks. The seller must have a couple of accomplices making his feedback look good on these other purchases, because there's no way he really sold this Seated Dollar coin a week ago.

Whomever is contacting eBay about this guy, feel free to include this evidence, maybe we can get him and his friends booted.

Sean Reynolds

packers88 · October 22, 2008 2:24AM

<< Take a look at his completed listings, he sold two very high end/high value coins, I wonder if these pictures were stolen too? Anyway to check on those? >>

Those were probably buddy to buddy sales or ring to ring sales to give him credibility, so that he could set the next guy up.

FredWeinberg · October 22, 2008 2:26AM

As I mentioned earlier, if you check the buyer's feedback,
the expensive coins they've bought from the seller are the
only coins - everything else is non-numismatic.

YaHa · October 22, 2008 2:34AM

<< I don't know the answer to how he got
the pictures - and good ones, too!

All I know is that when I saw the listing
Monday morning, I knew it wasn't real,
but I waited till I heard directly from the
owner of the coin, this morning, that he
has it, and is not selling it. >>

Hey Fred first of all great work. Maybe since times are hard these scumsuckers are the hit and run type. I see wire transfers, money orders and cashiers checks for payment. F-ing scum I tell you.

Just a little joke too bad you can't use your MSN cashback at 30% off thats a hunk of change for a ding ding rebate.

Casman · October 22, 2008 2:35AM

Probably, how bout definately, read the feedback by the buyer for the bogus sale of the 1845, Thanks for reducing the shipping charge for a great deal? Gimmie a break>>>

seanq · October 22, 2008 2:38AM

I just spent a few more minutes trying to find the other two high-dollar coins he sold and came up empty. Whomever is doing this did a pretty good job of cribbing his images from esoteric places and/or saving them for a while until the time was right to strike.

Sean Reynolds

rkfish · October 22, 2008 3:11AM

everything has been nuked while I was researching the pics........cool........

FredWeinberg · October 22, 2008 3:43AM

Ebay pulled this auction listing.

I hope they can close the seller down somehow.

TwoSides2aCoin · October 22, 2008 4:18AM

<< Ebay pulled this auction listing.

I hope they can close the seller down somehow. >>

Drones are humane !

CaptHenway · October 22, 2008 5:30AM

GOOD WORK, FRED!!!!!
td

micmt · October 22, 2008 5:47AM

Thanks for helping remove one more scrumbag from ebay......

seanq · October 22, 2008 6:00AM

Ummm..... he's not NARU, at least not yet. His Feedback profile still shows him as active, but eBay has helpfully deleted all five auctions in which the fraud was suspected, and his feedback reduced accordingly. So he can pull the scam again, except now there is no pattern of suspicious behavior to look back on.

How is it possible that even when they're doing the right thing, eBay manages to do it the wrong way?

Sean Reynolds

packers88 · October 22, 2008 6:26AM

<< Ummm..... he's not NARU, at least not yet. His Feedback profile still shows him as active, but eBay has helpfully deleted all five auctions in which the fraud was suspected, and his feedback reduced accordingly. So he can pull the scam again, except now there is no pattern of suspicious behavior to look back on.

How is it possible that even when they're doing the right thing, eBay manages to do it the wrong way?

Sean Reynolds >>

Ebay is good at hiding the evidence. Why not take a copy of this guys feedback and the way it looked prior to this great discovery by Fred Weinberg and post it on the front page of the USA TOday to see the fraud that really goes on with ebay. Hmmm, why is it ebay won't even let you pull up the auction anymore??? Let everyone see the crap that goes on with ebay. Why doesn't ebay spend more time combatting fraud instead of focusing on getting everyone to take paypal. Crap like this goes both ways, with the buyer and the seller, this was a nice scam in the making and it very well could have been a buyer pulling a scam. A buyer could have said the wrong coin was in the box so i want my $10000 back. This tactic from ebay to hide this auction and to cancel the auctions is just another tactic of theirs that pissses off customers. I would have printed out everything prior to them nuking it and faxed everythng to the USA TOday to show the crap that goes on with ebay.

Fraud Alert- Sacagawea Dollar on a Cent Planchet PCGS MS-66

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