I dont see the Blakesley effect....help me out...get over here SEAN!!

gecko109 · October 10, 2008 4:02AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180272558912&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008

Can someone tell me what im looking at? Futhermore, I dont like this guy's explaination of how a clip is made. A blank is punched from a planchet sheet, and if it overlaps another previously cut out blank's hole, a clipped is formed, correct? This guy talks about dies striking coins.

Dog97 · October 10, 2008 4:07AM

here tis
This has been discussed in another thread and Fred Weinberg said it was real.

<<<Clips occur by the die coming down on the planchet sheet and the die actually hits where a coin has already been struck and there is a hole there instead of metal.>>>
Change "die" & "struck" for "punch" & "punched" and it's pretty close to correct.

Shamika · October 10, 2008 4:08AM

We've been discussing this coin in another thread.

seanq · October 10, 2008 4:15AM

I gave my opinion at length in that other thread, but just to recap: probably real, but not worth anything close to the asking price.

Sean Reynolds

gecko109 · October 10, 2008 4:21AM

Sorry guys, didnt see the other thread. If Sean says its real, and Fred backs that up....hell, the debate stops right there!!!

19Lyds · October 10, 2008 4:24AM

<< Sorry guys, didnt see the other thread. If Sean says its real, and Fred backs that up....hell, the debate stops right there!!! >>

Agreed!

Now let's talk about the price???

19Lyds · October 10, 2008 4:26AM

<< A blank is punched from a planchet sheet, and if it overlaps another previously cut out blank's hole, a clipped is formed, correct? >>

Exactky correct!

Now, if we could teach you to generate your own links!

Actually you are half way there since you cut and pasted the web address into your post.

Instead of doing that, select the little http chain symbole then paste your link into that! Add text on the next window and you're done!

gecko109 · October 10, 2008 4:29AM

You mean like this LYDS?

Thanks a bunch man!

19Lyds · October 10, 2008 4:41AM

<< You mean like this LYDS?

Thanks a bunch man! >>

Damn!

I just got finished creating a whole tutorial in pictures!

But Yes!

erroid · October 10, 2008 10:36PM

Sorry Fred, Sean, I wouldn't buy this piece at any price; I think that the large clip is man made: (1) Blakesley effect(opposite the clip) on the obv looks like it was "hammered" and there is none on the rev. (2) Obv looks indented(it may have been punched out) and there is no rim spread(metal flow) on the tips of the clip. (3) Rev has no metal flow(spread) at the clip ends or on the letters(S, A & M) next to it; that, and I see shadows from the raised metal in portions of the clip arc. The strike would have flattened any metal projections left from the blanking process.

edit for "fat fingers".

19Lyds · October 10, 2008 11:47PM

Just to add some definition to your description erroid:

CaptHenway · October 10, 2008 11:50PM

<< Sorry Fred, Sean, I wouldn't buy this piece at any price; I think that the large clip is man made: (1) Blakesley effect(opposite the clip) on the obv looks like it was "hammered" and there is none on the rev. (2) Obv looks indented(it may have been punched out) and there is no rim spread(metal flow) on the tips of the clip. (3) Rev has no metal flow(spread) at the clip ends or on the letters(S, A & M) next to it; that, and I see shadows from the raised metal in portions of the clip arc. The strike would have flattened any metal projections left from the blanking process.

edit for "fat fingers". >>

Good catch. I didn't notice the raised lip on the reverse of the clip, which indicates post-strike shear.
TD

FredWeinberg · October 10, 2008 11:56PM

As I said in the other thread, I see the strange look at
the clip on the Obverse, but I think it's an illusion due to
the scan.

Look at the last "S" in States, and the bit of "A" and the "M"
of "America" on the reverse. Looks like metal flow to me.

And although there is no Blakesley Effect on the Rev. side,
opposite the clip, the B.E. on the Obverse looks genuine to
me.

As with normal coins, and especially errors, we can go on and
on discussing if it's genuine or not. If I had the coin in-hand,
I could tell if it's genuine or not in a second - I'd just check the
inside of the clip itself - if it has 'cut/shear' marks (half smooth,
half rough), it would be genuine.

FredWeinberg · October 11, 2008 12:00AM

In my last sentence of the above post,
I meant to say 'we can talk on and on
about a coin based on viewing only scans'

I always try to say to someone 'Based on
what I can see in the scan", etc....

TwoSides2aCoin · October 11, 2008 12:03AM

<< 

<< You mean like this LYDS?

Thanks a bunch man! >>

Damn!

I just got finished creating a whole tutorial in pictures!

But Yes! >>

you guys are too gracious
My girlfriend says we are brutal and cruel.

seanq · October 11, 2008 12:04AM

erroid, I understand your opints, below is what I wrote on the other thread, simply a different interpretation of the same images. As Fred said, without the coin in hand this is the best we could do.

<< I'm gonna climb out on a limb and say that both clips are genuine, though I don't feel the coin is worth anything close to what that seller is asking. Here's why:

- the small clip is undoubtedly real, and its presence is a huge point in favor of the larger clip also being real. It has been my experience that large clips such as this often come with a much smaller clip as well, possibly because it would be difficult for a single punch in a gang to overlap an existing hole that far without others in the vicinity overlapping as well.

- the Blakesley effect is stronger on one side than another; on coins I've seen with this effect faked the rim is flattened equally onboth sides, usually with a grinding wheel or soft pliers. Even though it is weaker, the Blakesley effect is still visible on the reverse, even though it is in a partial shadow you can see in the picture how the reverse rim subtly changes shape around K-7:30.

- there is evidence of metal flow in the letters adjacent to the clip on the reverse, ans less so but also visible in the top of the 9 of the date on the obverse.

- what looks like a shadow from a raised line of metal on the inside edge of the clip on the reverse is actually toning; the same dark toning is visible on the obverse behind Ike's neck and leading down toward the clip.

So in summary, while I don't suggest dropping three bills on it, I do believe the coin is a genuine Mint product. >>

erroid · October 11, 2008 1:26AM

We all have opinions and I stated mine; due to the sellers scans, I wouldn't buy this piece. Yes, a piece "in hand" is much easier to verify, but all we have are the sellers scans.... Here's another reason that "I" wouldn't buy this piece: there's no "taper" at the clip ends on the obv(rev is in shadow). See the following book scan for "taper". Yeah, I know that lack of "taper" is not always a "garage job" sign, it's just another reason for me NOT to want the piece. Oh yeah, thanks for the sellers pics Lee, it makes it easier to see.

19Lyds · October 11, 2008 6:27AM

I'm gonna climb out on the "other" limb, the one opposite Sean, and point out the shadowing on the coin.

The large clip on the reverse shows shadowing consistent with there being a "lip" of sorts. That shadowing is the same as what is present for the devices on the reverse but much smaller. I know its kinda weak but I would not expect any lip, as inficated by the shadows, along a clips edge, especially after the coin has been minted.

As for the Blakeslee Effect on the obverse opposite the large clip, it just looks too ragged and uneven for my tastes. Its dips down between the I and B yet appears to have a different plane between the B and E. This is why I brought this sucker up for discussion.

I am in no ways challenging Fred or Sean, just stating my observances from the sellers scans.

I dont see the Blakesley effect....help me out...get over here SEAN!!

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