Franklin Collectors-- What do you think about the NEW Franklin Variety Set?

bushmaster8 · October 3, 2008 1:30AM

I'm glad to see a variety set option in the Registry.

However, I wish PCGS could see beyond the Cherry Pickers Guide. A complete variety set should absolutely include the Type 1 and Type 2 reverses for the 1958-P and 1959-P issues!

Also, I am not too keen on the weighting of some of the coins.

Set Composition
Issue Weight
1948 3.00
1948 DDR FS-801 4.00
1948-D 4.00
1948-D DDR FS-801 5.00
1949 3.00
1949-D 9.00
1949-S 3.00
1949-S/S RPM FS-501 4.00
1950 3.00
1950-D 8.00
1951 2.00
1951 Bugs Bunny FS-401 3.00
1951-D 7.00
1951-S 2.00
1951-S DDR FS-801 3.00
1952 2.00
1952 Bugs Bunny FS-401 3.00
1952-D 4.00
1952-S 2.00
1953 4.00
1953 Bugs Bunny FS-401 5.00
1953-D 4.00
1953-S 2.00
1953-S/S RPM FS-501 3.00
1954 2.00
1954 Bugs Bunny FS-401 3.00
1954-D 4.00
1954-D Bugs Bunny FS-401 5.00
1954-S 2.00
1955 2.00
1955 Bugs Bunny FS-401 3.00
1956 1.00
1956 Bugs Bunny FS-401 2.00
1957 1.00
1957-D 1.00
1957-D/D RPM FS-501 2.00
1958 1.00
1958-D 1.00
1959 2.00
1959 DDR FS-801 3.00
1959-D 3.00
1960 3.00
1960-D 6.00
1961 4.00
1961-D 5.00
1962 4.00
1962-D 5.00
1963 2.00
1963-D 2.00

In my experience, the 48-D DDR is more common than the 48-P DDR, yet PCGS has given the D more weight.

Also, from my searching, at least, the 53-S RPM is surprisingly scarce, and should carry a heavier weight.

And, to give the 55 Bugs Bunny the exact same weight as the 51, 52, and 54 is simply ridiculous. The 55 BB is probably 100X more common than any of the others.

And what about the 59-D Bugs Bunny? Just because Fivaz- Stanton were apparently not aware of it when the CP Guide was published, does it follow that they do not exist?!

Tbar · October 3, 2008 2:40AM

What about the 59' p BB?

MadMarty · October 3, 2008 2:52AM

People collect Franklins?

Frankmason · October 3, 2008 3:01AM

<< People collect Franklins?

>>

Do you mean Franklin D Roosevelts????

MadMarty · October 3, 2008 3:08AM

<< 

<< People collect Franklins?

>>

Do you mean Franklin D Roosevelts????

>>

Yea those also!!!

Windycity · October 3, 2008 7:56AM

What is the best website with pics for Franklin varieties? Or is there one?

ProofArtworkonCircs · October 3, 2008 8:42AM

<<1959 DDR FS-801 3.00>>

Good news bushmaster8! The 1959 type I and II have acheived back door recognition by the inclusion of of the 1959 DDR.
That coin is really a class III doubled die of types I and II regardless of what CPG says. That has a really wide spread on the dot to the left of E in EPU.

Tbar · October 20, 2008 1:32AM

Would this mean that I wouldn't be able to get my '59-P BB attributed if I sent it in to Pcgs?

Thanks.

lcoopie · October 20, 2008 2:14AM

thanks for making me realize my Franklin ignorance

bushmaster8 · October 20, 2008 4:46AM

<< Would this mean that I wouldn't be able to get my '59-P BB attributed if I sent it in to Pcgs?

Thanks. >>

I think they would attribute it. But, it would not count in the Variety Reg set.

So... it is virtually worthless. So you might as well sell it to me. I see no other solution. Period. That's it. End of story. Done.

Tbar · October 20, 2008 6:12AM

<< 

<< Would this mean that I wouldn't be able to get my '59-P BB attributed if I sent it in to Pcgs?

Thanks. >>

I think they would attribute it. But, it would not count in the Variety Reg set.

So... it is virtually worthless. So you might as well sell it to me. I see no other solution. Period. That's it. End of story. Done. >>

19Lyds · October 20, 2008 6:49AM

<< And what about the 59-D Bugs Bunny? Just because Fivaz- Stanton were apparently not aware of it when the CP Guide was published, does it follow that they do not exist?! >>

PCGS is not saying that the coin does not exist, only that they do not have a "published" reference that it exists.

I've been through this with them before on the Friendly Eagle Variety IKE which does not take even a loupe to spot. I feel confident is stating that PCGS's position is that if the coin is not documented in an approved "published" reference (i.e. The Cherry Pickers Guide) that they are not going to attribute them.

19Lyds · October 20, 2008 6:51AM

<< 

<< Would this mean that I wouldn't be able to get my '59-P BB attributed if I sent it in to Pcgs?

Thanks. >>

I think they would attribute it. But, it would not count in the Variety Reg set. >>

Bushmaster, they will NOT attribute the coin if it is NOT in the CPG. There has never been an RDV-006 Eisenhower attributed by PCGS despite the write ups in Coin World or the attributions by ANACS and ICG.

They simply will not attribute any old variety just because its a variety.

PawPaul · October 20, 2008 7:27AM

I think they develop the new sets to stimulate submissions -not really caring for collector input or opinion ;

and weighing in the 51 Bug's the same as the '55 ? well that shows whoever did the weighting has a lot to learn

BECOKA · October 20, 2008 7:28AM

As far as the weight goes, PCGS seems to give a higher weight to the coins that are more rare at the higher grade levels.

ProofRainbowRoosevelt · October 20, 2008 7:44AM

How do I find out what weight PCGS gives any given coin?

BECOKA · October 20, 2008 7:50AM

<< How do I find out what weight PCGS gives any given coin? >>

At the top of the registry page click "view set composition"

Link

ProofRainbowRoosevelt · October 20, 2008 9:38AM

Thanks Becoka

SkyMan · October 20, 2008 11:02AM

Variety shmariety... just show me a good lookin' Franklin. While varieties are interesting, and it is always nice to cherrypick one, they are not something that I worry too much about.

keets · October 20, 2008 11:09AM

yeah, what skyman said.

MadMonk · October 20, 2008 11:22AM

I really need to get caught up with the Franklins.

lcoopie · October 20, 2008 11:54AM

I agree with the last 3 posters

Meltdown · October 20, 2008 3:01PM

OK, I don't do registry sets, so here's my ignorant question.
What significance does "weight" imply and what is FL Bonus?

Thanks

cmerlo1 · October 20, 2008 8:17PM

Questions- what are the 1958 & 1959 type 1 and 2? Are these business strikes, and what diffeentiates the types? Is it the same as the 1956 proofs?

Jcarney · October 20, 2008 10:18PM

I really don't care about repunched mintmarks, but I'd really like to get all the Bugs Bunnies. Cherrypicked, of course.

Jcarney · October 20, 2008 10:20PM

<< OK, I don't do registry sets, so here's my ignorant question.
What significance does "weight" imply and what is FL Bonus?

Thanks >>

A higher weighting for FBL (Full Bell Line) coins.

quickwing · October 20, 2008 11:12PM

Greg, I don't have a Franklin Set but agree with your points.
The 53-S RPM is extremely tough while the 55 Bugs is as common as rain in Seattle.

bushmaster8 · October 20, 2008 11:36PM

Lee, I agree that PCGS will not attribute the 59 BugsBunny. But I would be willing to bet that they will designate it as such. There are plenty of precedents out there, despite their ignorance of the FEV Ike.

Beckoka, I think you are correct. PCGS has weighted the Franklin varieties using the relative scarcity of the dates, irregardless of the relative scarcity of the variety. Which is certainly a half-arsed way to do things!

bushmaster8 · October 20, 2008 11:39PM

<< Variety shmariety... just show me a good lookin' Franklin. While varieties are interesting, and it is always nice to cherrypick one, they are not something that I worry too much about. >>

Well that's because you've never sold a rare variety for moon money!

Edit to add:

And just because not every franklin collector is interested in the varieties, that certainly doesn't excuse PCGS from dropping the ball on the weightings...

lcoopie · October 21, 2008 12:01AM

with the last comment
I just opened my Cherrypickers guide in to hopes of a
previously unknown variety
in other words,
to cherrypick myself

No 1957d RPM found

but it's a new start for me

ProofArtworkonCircs · October 21, 2008 12:10AM

<<Questions- what are the 1958 & 1959 type 1 and 2? Are these business strikes, and what diffeentiates the types? Is it the same as the 1956 proofs? >>

The two types of 1958 and 1959 Philly business strikes are the same as the two types of 1956 proofs.
There was a link given last night on how to tell them apart.

http://reviews.ebay.com/1956-Proof-and-1958-1959-Franklin-Type-1-and-Type-2_W0QQugidZ10000000006277091?ssPageName=BUYGD:CAT:-1:SEARCH:3

The 1959 DDR is a marriage of types 1 and 2.
The 1959 mint sets usually have a type 2 half and a type B quarter for the Philadelphia specimens.

MadMonk · October 31, 2008 3:34AM

Greg,
Spot on.

TAClough · October 31, 2008 8:29AM

<< 

<< 

<< Would this mean that I wouldn't be able to get my '59-P BB attributed if I sent it in to Pcgs?

Thanks. >>

I think they would attribute it. But, it would not count in the Variety Reg set. >>

Bushmaster, they will NOT attribute the coin if it is NOT in the CPG. There has never been an RDV-006 Eisenhower attributed by PCGS despite the write ups in Coin World or the attributions by ANACS and ICG.

They simply will not attribute any old variety just because its a variety. >>

PCGS requires the 1964 SMS and they are not in the Cherrypickers' guide, why the double standard?

frnklnlvr · November 13, 2008 7:45AM

There's one example of a 1963 BB certified by ANACS. I have a '63 with this die clash but when I sent it for attribution I was told it wasn't strong enough for the BB designation. I tried to get the best photos I could of the clash. ANACS did leave it in the PCGS rattler however, and I was glad they did. It's a MS63.

frnklnlvr · November 13, 2008 7:51AM

Okay I think I got the pics attached to this one.

frnklnlvr · February 19, 2009 8:24PM

I brought this thread back up to see if anyone could answer this. The Franklin Proof Variety Set does not include the 1956 DDO FS-101 (CONECA listing PR-3-O-II-C+VI), I was curious as to why. Was this removed from the CPG?

PawPaul · February 20, 2009 10:35AM

I got a double doobie diddy whop hop bop a doodah .............

no doubt Franklin oddities are cool - but in all these decades they have a very tiny collector base .

I see the Bugs bunnies in various years advertised for very high prices -but I don't see any buyers

frnklnlvr · February 20, 2009 11:34AM

<< I got a double doobie diddy whop hop bop a doodah .............

no doubt Franklin oddities are cool - but in all these decades they have a very tiny collector base .

I see the Bugs bunnies in various years advertised for very high prices -but I don't see any buyers >>

I'm in that tiny collector base. This '51 Bugs just sold for over $400, which is insane IMO. I would never pay anywhere close to that. I like to cherrypick my Franklin varieties.

PawPaul · February 20, 2009 9:46PM

I would say you frnklinlover ; are at the top of your tiny field

PawPaul · February 20, 2009 9:48PM

"
I'm in that tiny collector base. This '51 Bugs just sold for over $400,"

.....private user i.d's and an unscrupulous seller ? I doubt this coin even sold , let alone for that much

frnklnlvr · February 20, 2009 10:38PM

I'm kinda glad it's a tiny field, less competition. He thinks it's the highest graded and only rainbow PCGS graded '51 BB but this one of bushmaster's is a MS65 and much nicer IMO.

ksteelheader · February 20, 2009 10:52PM

<< 

<< And what about the 59-D Bugs Bunny? Just because Fivaz- Stanton were apparently not aware of it when the CP Guide was published, does it follow that they do not exist?! >>

PCGS is not saying that the coin does not exist, only that they do not have a "published" reference that it exists.

I've been through this with them before on the Friendly Eagle Variety IKE which does not take even a loupe to spot. I feel confident is stating that PCGS's position is that if the coin is not documented in an approved "published" reference (i.e. The Cherry Pickers Guide) that they are not going to attribute them. >>

But, did they not attribute that Speared Buffalo a few years back? No published reference to it at the time!!

frnklnlvr · February 20, 2009 11:26PM

<< 

<< 

<< And what about the 59-D Bugs Bunny? Just because Fivaz- Stanton were apparently not aware of it when the CP Guide was published, does it follow that they do not exist?! >>

PCGS is not saying that the coin does not exist, only that they do not have a "published" reference that it exists.

I've been through this with them before on the Friendly Eagle Variety IKE which does not take even a loupe to spot. I feel confident is stating that PCGS's position is that if the coin is not documented in an approved "published" reference (i.e. The Cherry Pickers Guide) that they are not going to attribute them. >>

But, did they not attribute that Speared Buffalo a few years back? No published reference to it at the time!! >>

I think now they attribute the Cherrypicker coins exclusively so they probably wouldn't attribute the Speared Buffalo today.

19Lyds · February 22, 2009 1:22AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< And what about the 59-D Bugs Bunny? Just because Fivaz- Stanton were apparently not aware of it when the CP Guide was published, does it follow that they do not exist?! >>

PCGS is not saying that the coin does not exist, only that they do not have a "published" reference that it exists.

I've been through this with them before on the Friendly Eagle Variety IKE which does not take even a loupe to spot. I feel confident is stating that PCGS's position is that if the coin is not documented in an approved "published" reference (i.e. The Cherry Pickers Guide) that they are not going to attribute them. >>

But, did they not attribute that Speared Buffalo a few years back? No published reference to it at the time!! >>

I think now they attribute the Cherrypicker coins exclusively so they probably wouldn't attribute the Speared Buffalo today. >>

The Speared Bison will still get attributed but not with an FS Number (unless its in the new CPG). And this is a good thing since it means you don't have to pay that friggin $24 attribution fee! Kinda like the 1974-D DDO Kennedy!

As for the Complete Franklin Variety Set, it looks like a Warner Brothers Hit Parade of "Wascaly Wabbits"!

BTW, I picked up a 1953-D Bugsy yesterday. Do you suppose PCGS will attribute it?

PawPaul · February 22, 2009 1:42AM

I think the 53-D above is a snot nosed and not a bugs.........

least we have mutant rabbits with teeth coming out their noses

19Lyds · February 22, 2009 5:48AM

Well I guess that makes this one a "snot nose" as well:

frnklnlvr · February 22, 2009 6:31PM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< And what about the 59-D Bugs Bunny? Just because Fivaz- Stanton were apparently not aware of it when the CP Guide was published, does it follow that they do not exist?! >>

PCGS is not saying that the coin does not exist, only that they do not have a "published" reference that it exists.

I've been through this with them before on the Friendly Eagle Variety IKE which does not take even a loupe to spot. I feel confident is stating that PCGS's position is that if the coin is not documented in an approved "published" reference (i.e. The Cherry Pickers Guide) that they are not going to attribute them. >>

But, did they not attribute that Speared Buffalo a few years back? No published reference to it at the time!! >>

I think now they attribute the Cherrypicker coins exclusively so they probably wouldn't attribute the Speared Buffalo today. >>

The Speared Bison will still get attributed but not with an FS Number (unless its in the new CPG). And this is a good thing since it means you don't have to pay that friggin $24 attribution fee! Kinda like the 1974-D DDO Kennedy!

As for the Complete Franklin Variety Set, it looks like a Warner Brothers Hit Parade of "Wascaly Wabbits"!

BTW, I picked up a 1953-D Bugsy yesterday. Do you suppose PCGS will attribute it?

>>

That 53-D has a lot of hits on the cheek, how does the rest of the coin look?

19Lyds · April 13, 2009 2:40AM

Just as an update, PCGS did NOT attribute my 53-D as a BB but instead gave it a MS62FL.

So.....given this, since the coin is obviously a "die clash", it appears that PCGS will ONLY attribute a BB if the clash appears on his lip. My 51 has it on his nose AND his lip which I suppose is why it qualified.

Now what the heck am I gonna do with a MS62FL "Snot Nosed" Franklin?

bushmaster8 · April 13, 2009 4:09AM

Thanks for sharing this Lee. Now we know once and for all that PCGS will not attribute the "snot-noses" as BugsBunnies.

Believe it or not, this really was a burning question for a couple of us!

19Lyds · April 13, 2009 4:17AM

I just got an update regarding this coin.

PCGS has certain dates which can get attributed as Bugs Bunny and unfortunately 1953-D is not one of them. I have been informed that the slab did get an "Obverse Die Clash" moniker on it though.

So I guess the position of the clash really had little to do with it and once again I prove beyond "reasonable doubt" that I just don't have a clue as to what I'm talking about!

I was going to say that only the Philly coins get the designation but I see that the 1964-D gets it. Maybe there's hoppe for the 53-D?

BTW, I see where a 1949 Bugs Bunny FS-401 has been added to the Complete Franklin Variety Set so you'll need to update your list.

bushmaster8 · April 13, 2009 4:22AM

That info (about only certain dates being eligible) may be suspect. Especially if it came from customer service.

I very much doubt that 1949 was on the list of eligible dates as it was not mentioned in CPG. Yet PCGS is designating those.

I suspect it really is just a matter of position of the clash (lips vs. nose).

Franklin Collectors-- What do you think about the NEW Franklin Variety Set?

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