Sellers forced to decline checks / money orders - I STRONGLY DISLIKE eBay!

renomedphys · September 17, 2008 6:27AM

Can you believe this?

Now, you will be forced to accept Paypal, Credit Cards, or some other "approved" electronic payment method for all sales. Read: You must now pay us three percent off the top in addition to our already exorbinant FVFs!!!

SaorAlba · September 17, 2008 6:31AM

Not really a problem, just start listing your coins in one of the following categories and you will be allright:

Are there any categories excluded from these payment requirements?
Vehicles (Motors), capital equipment (Business & Industrial), Mature Audiences and Real Estate will be excluded from the new payment requirements. Specifically, the following categories will be excluded:

* Motors > Cars & Trucks
* Motors > Motorcycles
* Motors > Powersports
* Motors > Boats
* Motors > Other Vehicles & Trailers
* Business & Industrial > Agriculture & Forestry > Tractors & Farm Machinery
* Business & Industrial > Construction > Heavy Equipment, Trailers
* Business & Industrial > Food Service & Retail > Concession Trailers & Carts
* Business & Industrial > Healthcare, Lab & Life Science > Imaging & Aesthetics Equipment
* Business & Industrial > Industrial Supply, MRO > Fork Lifts & Other Lifts
* Business & Industrial > Manufacturing & Metalworking > Manufacturing Equipment
* Business & Industrial > Manufacturing & Metalworking > Metalworking Equipment
* Business & Industrial > Office, Printing & Shipping > Commercial Printing Presses
* Real Estate
* Everything Else > Mature Audiences

Especially that bold last category since coins are now by my determination deemed to be morally obscene, well at least for selling purposes on eBay.

secondrepublic · September 17, 2008 6:41AM

This is going to pose a major problem for Ebay and I predict they will rescind these rules. A lot of buyers live abroad and they are not going to sign up for PayPal. Nor will I.

FatMan · September 17, 2008 6:44AM

I applaud ebay for this. I know it seems restrictive, but it appears ebay is finally taking a responsible step towards minimizing scams. Buying with a check or money order left the buyer with little recourse in a problem transaction. I know this adds to the cost of the seller, but it is just a cost of doing business. And, who knows, if ebay does actually clean up the playing field it just might increase the bidder base substantially making for higher bids.

rgCoinGuy · September 17, 2008 6:48AM

Hmmm, anyone have a wholesaler they will share with me for Mature Audience Items? Maybe I will switch to selling that type of product and only buying coins.

doh · September 17, 2008 6:48AM

<< I know it seems restrictive, but it appears ebay is finally taking a responsible step towards minimizing scams. Buying with a check or money order left the buyer with little recourse in a problem transaction. I know this adds to the cost of the seller, but it is just a cost of doing business. And, who knows, if ebay does actually clean up the playing field it just might increase the bidder base substantially making for higher bids. >>

I see your logic and I certainly hope you're right. I can't remember the last time someone sent me a check/money order for an item anyway. I think most people are up in arms because it's yet another restriction eBay has put into place....and I certainly see their (the people, not eBay) point.

FatMan · September 17, 2008 6:54AM

<< 

<< I know it seems restrictive, but it appears ebay is finally taking a responsible step towards minimizing scams. Buying with a check or money order left the buyer with little recourse in a problem transaction. I know this adds to the cost of the seller, but it is just a cost of doing business. And, who knows, if ebay does actually clean up the playing field it just might increase the bidder base substantially making for higher bids. >>

I see your logic and I certainly hope you're right. I can't remember the last time someone sent me a check/money order for an item anyway. I think most people are up in arms because it's yet another restriction eBay has put into place....and I certainly see their (the people, not eBay) point. >>

I understand their frustration too. But the more control ebay takes on transactions, the more control they have over the successful outcome of the transaction. When you consign to most any third party selling forum they handle the money. In my business, I have many transactions where a third party brought the customer to me and I have always received my payment from the third party. I have always thought payment directly between buyer and seller on ebay was the weakest link.

Cladiator · September 17, 2008 6:56AM

Just another example of ePay stabbing themselves in the groin.

coolest · September 17, 2008 6:58AM

Cant a buyer and seller come to any arrangement they want, cancel the sale and avoid any ebay fees?

Barndog · September 17, 2008 6:58AM

minimizing scams? If that was job #1 at ebay, we would not have the s***j (346) system of mystery bidders ... which only encourage shills. Oh wait, that brings in more $ for ebay...that must job #1

renomedphys · September 17, 2008 7:07AM

For argument's sake I have stopped selling items with paltry start bids. Usually I start my items at break-even price plus some or a lot depending on the market. FVFs and other fees are usually figured into this equation. I guess that means that from now on, I'll be adding three more percent.

That said, most of my stuff goes for exactly my start bid price, and rarely develops into a bid war like they do when you use low start bids and no reserve.

My feeling is this, if you cannot sell something and make a little profit, then you probably shouldn't sell it... yet. If you have to sell something at a loss, I sure hope it was worth it to you, and hopefully you got to learn something in the process.

jsf · September 17, 2008 7:11AM

these eBay fee changes are coming at a bad time, aren't they?

I had hoped to cull a few more coins this fall, prior to Christmas. I made a big dent in them last year, thanks to guidance from this board.

Barndog · September 17, 2008 7:13AM

this will only help the BST...or at least it should

renomedphys · September 17, 2008 7:14AM

I thought it would help the BST as well, but really, it can never hope to compete.

Connecticoin · September 17, 2008 7:15AM

<< I applaud ebay for this. I know it seems restrictive, but it appears ebay is finally taking a responsible step towards minimizing scams. Buying with a check or money order left the buyer with little recourse in a problem transaction. I know this adds to the cost of the seller, but it is just a cost of doing business. And, who knows, if ebay does actually clean up the playing field it just might increase the bidder base substantially making for higher bids. >>

I disagree. To protect buyers, eBay could force sellers to offer Paypal as one of the choices, but should let sellers continue to give buyers the option of check/mo as well. This will hurt sellers of coins and other collectibles, beacuse many buyers of these items do not like using Paypal or do not want to give Paypal their credit card info, and will no longer use eBay. This is a blatant, BS fee grab by eBay disguised as "concern" for buyers.

MadMarty · September 17, 2008 7:16AM

Wait until you get nailed with a bad check! Then you find out there is nothing you can do about it! Also, as a buyer I hate writing out checks or having to pickup a money order because the seller won't take PP. I like it!

Barndog · September 17, 2008 7:16AM

<< I thought it would help the BST as well, but really, it can never hope to compete. >>

certainly it won't compete on a grand scale, but it can help out the small community we have here with the CU Forums

Raybo · September 17, 2008 7:20AM

I don't mind using PP, but i'll be damned if i'm going to verify the darn thing!

Ray

Connecticoin · September 17, 2008 7:20AM

<< Wait until you get nailed with a bad check! Then you find out there is nothing you can do about it! Also, as a buyer I hate writing out checks or having to pickup a money order because the seller won't take PP. I like it! >>

The latter would be taken care of if Paypal had to be offered as payment option. As far as receiving checks, what is the problem, as long as you do not ship until the check clears?

notwilight · September 17, 2008 7:25AM

Anybody have an inexpensive merchant credit card supplier to recommend? Paypal provides this service. they charge $30/month and your paypal rate plus .2% so for me that would be 2.4%. --Jerry

zeebob · September 17, 2008 7:46AM

I don't see what the big deal is. Probably 90% of my customers pay with Paypal anyway. I accept, but really don't like, personal checks or other forms of payment.

I dislike the tone of the announcement. The execs at Ebay definitely are of the "let them eat cake" variety. BST and CoinZip are looking better all the time.

howards · September 17, 2008 7:46AM

"Payment on pickup" still seems to be an allowable option.

I bet all of my eBay buyers will suddenly opt to pick up their items in person.

19Lyds · September 17, 2008 7:49AM

<< I applaud ebay for this. I know it seems restrictive, but it appears ebay is finally taking a responsible step towards minimizing scams. Buying with a check or money order left the buyer with little recourse in a problem transaction. I know this adds to the cost of the seller, but it is just a cost of doing business. And, who knows, if ebay does actually clean up the playing field it just might increase the bidder base substantially making for higher bids. >>

I suppose this is possible but it certainly does not address problem buyers that use PayPal to their own personal advantage in scamming sellers.

Its basically a two way street in that eBay should stick to their "We only provide a method for folks to conduct business" strategy and let sellers determine what forms or types of payments they are willing to accept.

In my mind, eBay is blaming the selling community for ALL the problems and forcing sellers to carry the extra burdens which eBay is mandating. After all, there are just as many bad buyers out there as there are bad sellers.

I see sellers actively seeking out other methods to conduct their business which eventually will leave eBay in the lurch.

packers88 · September 17, 2008 7:50AM

I don't care what anyone says, ebay has always touted in their user agreements that they are only a platform for buyers and sellers to meet and that they have no vested interest with either the buyer or seller. They did this to protect themselves from getting sued when someone receives that $25,000 coin that is a fraud. Makes sense, but it has to be a two way street. When it comes to them being able to scrape another 3% off of a sale then all of a sudden they are no longer just a platform, but they want to be part of the transaction by dictating what payments someone takes. I'm still amazed no attorney general or FTC has steped in to stop this. This is so obvious that it is not right and maybe even illegal. If two grown adults want to mutually agree to do the transaction by a check then that is their right.

Barndog · September 17, 2008 7:52AM

<< I don't care what anyone says, ebay has always touted in their user agreements that they are only a platform for buyers and sellers to meet and that they have no vested interest with either the buyer or seller. They did this to protect themselves from getting sued when someone receives that $25,000 coin that is a fraud. Makes sense, but it has to be a two way street. When it comes to them being able to scrape another 3% off of a sale then all of a sudden they are no longer just a platform, but they want to be part of the transaction by dictating what payments someone takes. I'm still amazed no attorney general or FTC has steped in to stop this. This is so obvious that it is not right and maybe even illegal. If two grown adults want to mutually agree to do the transaction by a check then that is their right. >>

anyone know an AG? I like this idea

Cladiator · September 17, 2008 7:54AM

<< 

<< I don't care what anyone says, ebay has always touted in their user agreements that they are only a platform for buyers and sellers to meet and that they have no vested interest with either the buyer or seller. They did this to protect themselves from getting sued when someone receives that $25,000 coin that is a fraud. Makes sense, but it has to be a two way street. When it comes to them being able to scrape another 3% off of a sale then all of a sudden they are no longer just a platform, but they want to be part of the transaction by dictating what payments someone takes. I'm still amazed no attorney general or FTC has steped in to stop this. This is so obvious that it is not right and maybe even illegal. If two grown adults want to mutually agree to do the transaction by a check then that is their right. >>

anyone know an AG? I like this idea >>

Here's one.

TavernTreasures · September 17, 2008 7:56AM

<< Wait until you get nailed with a bad check! Then you find out there is nothing you can do about it! Also, as a buyer I hate writing out checks or having to pickup a money order because the seller won't take PP. I like it! >>

Wait until a crooked buyer plays the Paypal dispute! And claims you did not send a coin in the package. I WILL NOT be giving paypal the authority to raid my bank account. As a seller I should be the one to decide when a refund is merited, not paypal!

packers88 · September 17, 2008 8:03AM

Exactly, there are too many con artists out there who know the paypal system and will claim nothing is in the package when you fully swear you put it in the package you sealed it appropriately and then you have some 20 year old college kid sitting in a boiler room siding with the buyer. He hits a few key strokes and dips into your bank account or your paypal account to reimburse the seller. I have no problem whatsoever refunding a sellers money and I can be objective and decide for myself if the refund request is warranted. I don't need paypal to play judge, jury, and any money awarded enforcer. Again, I will never ship a coin over $500 through a paypal transaction. If sellers are shipping coins in the $5000 or $10,000 range and accepting paypal all I have to say is good luck.

BBQnBLUES · September 17, 2008 8:03AM

Being a _Buyer only... I prefer to use USPS money orders.

I no longer use/trust PayPal !!

With the recent bank failures & the FACT PayPal is _NOT FDIC insured.. WHY would _Anyone trust them to "Protect" your interests !?!

TavernTreasures · September 17, 2008 8:03AM

<< Not really a problem, just start listing your coins in one of the following categories and you will be allright:

Are there any categories excluded from these payment requirements?
Vehicles (Motors), capital equipment (Business & Industrial), Mature Audiences and Real Estate will be excluded from the new payment requirements. Specifically, the following categories will be excluded:

* Motors > Cars & Trucks
* Motors > Motorcycles
* Motors > Powersports
* Motors > Boats
* Motors > Other Vehicles & Trailers
* Business & Industrial > Agriculture & Forestry > Tractors & Farm Machinery
* Business & Industrial > Construction > Heavy Equipment, Trailers
* Business & Industrial > Food Service & Retail > Concession Trailers & Carts
* Business & Industrial > Healthcare, Lab & Life Science > Imaging & Aesthetics Equipment
* Business & Industrial > Industrial Supply, MRO > Fork Lifts & Other Lifts
* Business & Industrial > Manufacturing & Metalworking > Manufacturing Equipment
* Business & Industrial > Manufacturing & Metalworking > Metalworking Equipment
* Business & Industrial > Office, Printing & Shipping > Commercial Printing Presses
* Real Estate
* Everything Else > Mature Audiences

Especially that bold last category since coins are now by my determination deemed to be morally obscene, well at least for selling purposes on eBay. >>

Anyone listing coins in these other catagories should expect that this forum's EBAY police will rat them out promptly.

packers88 · September 17, 2008 8:06AM

Just google, for example Kentucky Attorney General and there should be an online complaint form. It could probably be done within 15 minutes. My argument in any complaint would be how can what is considered by many a virtual monopoly get away with trying to dictate what form of payment two adults want to engage in. If two adults want to engage in a check transcaction then there are plenty of ebay warnings on the site that state the buyer isn't protected. Even if they are it is something like $200 or $2000.

BBN · September 17, 2008 8:09AM

If paypal is a required method then the service should be free. That's extortion

sfs2002usa · September 17, 2008 8:10AM

Beginning of the end for EB / PP. These charges are being passed off to new customers
to cover class action litigation from previous customers.

ebaytrader · September 17, 2008 8:11AM

<< I don't see what the big deal is. Probably 90% of my customers pay with Paypal anyway. I accept, but really don't like, personal checks or other forms of payment.

>>

Here's great volume seller - FLAcoin
Most of his sales are international and he doesn't accept PayPal. They're basically telling him to buzz-off.

BBN · September 17, 2008 8:13AM

Upon checkout buyer could mark "payment on pickup" and handle the rest of the transaction off of ebay through emails.

packers88 · September 17, 2008 8:16AM

Let me dwell on this further, ebay states they want to make the buyers experience a good one so therefore they need to eliminate checks. Here is where it really gets funny, they care about the buyer and seller and it is not about the bottom line, but yet I always wondered why when someone doesn't pay for an item why ebay ONLY reimburses you the final value fee and not the listing fee??? Hmmm. I thought nursing and caring for the buyer and seller was so important. Stop the bs and just come out and say we are no longer letting our sellers accpet checks so that we can shore up our revenues and profits.

packers88 · September 17, 2008 8:20AM

Perfect example of FLACOIN, he only accepts checks and no paypal. Look at his feedback 6000 positives and 1 negative. If customers were so angry about paying by check how does he only have 1 complaint and 6000 positives? I would rather buy from this guy instead of someone who takes paypal and has 30 positives and 2 negatives.

airplanenut · September 17, 2008 9:27AM

<< Wait until you get nailed with a bad check! Then you find out there is nothing you can do about it! Also, as a buyer I hate writing out checks or having to pickup a money order because the seller won't take PP. I like it! >>

Or wait until you have a fraudulent chargeback filed against you, and not only does PayPal not let you fight it... they have the gall to charge you because it got filed! Marty, want to take a trip to Rockford and seize some assets for me?

storm888 · September 17, 2008 9:31AM

IF a buyer asks to pay by paper, sellers may accept the payment.

IF a seller has more than 3% to 4% "failures to checkout," EBAY
will investigate and suspend the seller if he is "encouraging"
paper payments.

NEVER accept PayPal for an amount greater than you are willing to lose.

//////////////////////////

COSTCO still has the cheapest easy-to-get Merchant Account. They may
or may not cooperate with the "platform integration" that EBAY is insisting
will roll-out in January. Any MA that will not merge their CO with EBAY's
scheme, will be excluded.

So, before you sign up for a new MA, make sure the grantor understands
the January plans.

bigmarty58 · September 17, 2008 9:55AM

Ebay is really shooting themselves in the foot with this new policy. Limiting payment options will force people to look to other ways of buying and selling coins. If Ebay does not "re-think" this they will lose many customers, I will be one of the first.

Robert.

Opus · September 17, 2008 10:00AM

Not that I sell a lot on EBay, but I'm done. I recently sold an 1882 $10 gold piece MS62 and between the auction and PayPal fees, it's just not worth it. There are enough other avenues. Sad though.

onejinx · September 17, 2008 10:08AM

<< Exactly, there are too many con artists out there who know the paypal system and will claim nothing is in the package when you fully swear you put it in the package you sealed it appropriately and then you have some 20 year old college kid sitting in a boiler room siding with the buyer. He hits a few key strokes and dips into your bank account or your paypal account to reimburse the seller. I have no problem whatsoever refunding a sellers money and I can be objective and decide for myself if the refund request is warranted. I don't need paypal to play judge, jury, and any money awarded enforcer. Again, I will never ship a coin over $500 through a paypal transaction. If sellers are shipping coins in the $5000 or $10,000 range and accepting paypal all I have to say is good luck. >>

Paypal can not dip into your bank account to get a refund!!! They will take any funds available in the Paypal account first and then your account goes negative and it gets frozen. You won't be able to use your paypal account until it is brought back up to a positive amount.

MORGANHUNTER2 · September 17, 2008 10:21AM

<< 

<< Exactly, there are too many con artists out there who know the paypal system and will claim nothing is in the package when you fully swear you put it in the package you sealed it appropriately and then you have some 20 year old college kid sitting in a boiler room siding with the buyer. He hits a few key strokes and dips into your bank account or your paypal account to reimburse the seller. I have no problem whatsoever refunding a sellers money and I can be objective and decide for myself if the refund request is warranted. I don't need paypal to play judge, jury, and any money awarded enforcer. Again, I will never ship a coin over $500 through a paypal transaction. If sellers are shipping coins in the $5000 or $10,000 range and accepting paypal all I have to say is good luck. >>

Paypal can not dip into your bank account to get a refund!!! They will take any funds available in the Paypal account first and then your account goes negative and it gets frozen. You won't be able to use your paypal account until it is brought back up to a positive amount. >>

Umm- you are very wrong there my friend- paypa; will hit your personal bank acct- it is linked with your ebay account, and thus YOU gave them the right to pull monies from whatever account you have listed and if you failed to notice, if you have payapl you had to provide a secondary back up acct- like a CC- when they don't get the funds from your listed acct- they hit the CC and then you are toast.

Ebay is no longer 'just a venue'- they are a monopoly and in short time they will be brought in front of a judge to explain- just file your compalint with your states attorney general- they will do the rest of the leg work-better yet tell the IRS what ebay/paypal is doing- that will help shut ebay down fast. Lawyers are good at writing contract- but have a hell of a time fighting the feds on racketeering charges. think RICO folks it wreaks of it.

I will pay with what I and the seller agree to- not what I am forced to do.

onejinx · September 17, 2008 10:52AM

Ummm...I'm not wrong.

My wife purchased an item on ebay and paid with paypal. I think it was a $70 item. Selle rclaimed they shipped it and she never received it. Filed a claim with paypal. Paypal refunded the money to her paypal account. My wife then bought some other items. The original seller contacted paypal and get them to reverse the refund. Paypal tried to take the $70 but only got $4. The $4 was what was sitting in her paypal account. My wifes account has been at a -$66 balance for almost 4 years now.

I repeat they can not just take funds from your linked bank account.

GrumpyEd · September 17, 2008 11:22AM

I think they did it (took from bank accounts) years ago but got sued so now they can only take your paypal balance.

Dollarhunter · September 17, 2008 11:23AM

I guess I will not be buying anything off of ebay. I had a paypal account in the past but closed it. My local B&M shops will be getting all of my business.

ziggy29 · September 17, 2008 11:30AM

<< I applaud ebay for this. I know it seems restrictive, but it appears ebay is finally taking a responsible step towards minimizing scams. Buying with a check or money order left the buyer with little recourse in a problem transaction. I know this adds to the cost of the seller, but it is just a cost of doing business. >>

I could probably be persuaded to agree with this if it weren't destined to generate more fees for eBay and, in my opinion, intended to force Paypal (read: more revenue for eBay) on everyone.

And that says nothing about the PayPal chargebacks from crooked buyers who can't be negged any more for behaving badly.

notwilight · September 17, 2008 11:35AM

There are maybe 2 or 3 posters here who sell more on ebay that I do. I have NEVER (that's not ever) been scammed by a paypal buyer OR a check buyer. I don't buy the security argument. This is just designed to generate more revenue in a market where ebay already takes more than half the markup. --Jerry

christopherking · September 17, 2008 12:02PM

"Anyone listing coins in these other catagories should expect that this forum's EBAY police will rat them out promptly."

Probably the same rats that would narc on some poor airman trying to extricate a trace amount of gold from junk radios that were headed for the dumpster anyway.

Big brother and fearless leader would applaud such an action. It's a brave new world.

Hail Narcs and Backstabbers!

storm888 · September 17, 2008 1:37PM

"I repeat they cannot just take funds from your linked bank account.'

///////////

THAT is CORRECT.

The sundry consent decrees that they signed put a stop to that
avenue of theft.

They CAN reverse a "transfer in progress" to YOUR bank account. Once
such money has made it home safe, PP cannot grab it w/o your permission.

If money comes into a negative account, it is credited to the amount they
claim you owe. They will also ask for permission to take the money from
your linked accounts; if you say "no," they are sol.

They are pretty fast to turn accounts over to their collection agency.

BlackBeard · September 17, 2008 1:58PM

Not that I use one, but they are also eliminating 3rd party checkouts.

Sellers forced to decline checks / money orders - I STRONGLY DISLIKE eBay!

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