Do you trust graded GAI unopened wax?

jamesryanbell · September 4, 2008 2:49AM

I've heard a couple of crossover horror stories lately, and was just wondering about their validity.

Ex. Expensive vintage GAI unopened pack bought on eBay. Seller wants to crossover. Comes back from PSA as "resealed".

44Magnum · September 4, 2008 2:55AM

Yes, but only the old stuff.

Nothing with the new flips.

jamesryanbell · September 4, 2008 2:56AM

<< Yes, but only the old stuff.

Nothing with the new flips. >>

What does that mean? (Sorry...I guess I missed out on what's "old")

44Magnum · September 4, 2008 3:00AM

They changed their flips a while back. They used to be just silver with black writing. Now they're different.

Here is there new label. Look who's selling it. He has some PSA graded wax too, but I think that is only to try to legitimize the fake stuff.

New Flip

44Magnum · September 4, 2008 3:06AM

Here's a better example of the flips:

1977 Topps Wax Pack Old Flip

1977 Topps Wax Pack New Flip

jamesryanbell · September 4, 2008 3:10AM

<< Here's a better example of the flips:

1977 Topps Wax Pack Old Flip

1977 Topps Wax Pack New Flip >>

Cool thanks!

Why do you not trust the new ones?

rube26105 · September 4, 2008 3:17AM

i opened a 74 topps baseball pack with the old flips and it had 3 cards in it, i wouldnt touch anthing gai ever again,just my experience with packs from em

ldferg · September 4, 2008 3:25AM

NO!!!!!!!!

see may 86 fleer thread.

44Magnum · September 4, 2008 3:44AM

<< i opened a 74 topps baseball pack with the old flips and it had 3 cards in it, i wouldnt touch anthing gai ever again,just my experience with packs from em >>

Randy,
There were some 1974 Topps two card wax packs. I don't know if they were packaged this way intentionally, or if this was some type of packaging problem. Steve sells them in his store.
1974 Topps 2 card wax packs

jeffcbay · September 4, 2008 3:51AM

<< NO!!!!!!!!

see may 86 fleer thread. >>

Linky

stevek · September 4, 2008 4:14AM

"Do you trust graded GAI unopened wax?"

Definitely not.

MeteoriteGuy · September 4, 2008 4:19AM

<< "Do you trust graded GAI unopened wax?"

Definitely not. >>

I have no experience, but I would not open one, and would not trust to get my dollar back....so I guess that would mean, no.

2dueces · September 4, 2008 4:20AM

NO!

TheHun · September 4, 2008 4:27AM

Not to hi-jack this thread, but I have a small box of unopened stuff from the 1980's.

I used to put aside one or two pack of each year of baseball / football.

With all the tom-foolery on ebay, is it worth try to sell. ? (BTW - I do not consider grading them an option).

would anyone be interested in seeing these ?

cheers

mtcards · September 4, 2008 8:08AM

How about seeing more of the chix in the pix

Justintime · September 4, 2008 10:18AM

I was thinking of making an offer on this gai box. From a sealed case would have to be legit right?
gai box

grote15 · September 4, 2008 10:48AM

I second on the older flips...the newer flips are garbage.

Edit: I've been very fortunate with older graded GAI packs. I've opened dozens and can say that only a few seemed questionable or resealed. Unfortunately, their present grader(s) have no knowledge about unopened product, though.

Older GAI flips are still a much better option than buying raw (unless you've done your research and know and trust the seller)...Steve Hart once estimated that at leasat 50% of raw unopened packs on ebay are resealed...that percentage is MUCH higher now.

Also, "fun" packs containing 2-3 cards were produced in 1974 and 1975.

TheHun · September 4, 2008 11:17AM

<< How about seeing more of the chix in the pix >>

Carol asked me to remove them. I'm still not sure why ...

Justintime · September 4, 2008 11:29AM

<< How about seeing more of the chix in the pix >>

<<Carol asked me to remove them. I'm still not sure why ... >>

Well that sucks big ones why aren't they allowed?

vtbub · September 4, 2008 11:56AM

<< I was thinking of making an offer on this gai box. From a sealed case would have to be legit right?
gai box >>

Run, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Do a search on here for that ebay seller.

RawPlusSlabbed · September 4, 2008 1:39PM

Personally I have had pretty good luck with their packs. Without question, better than buying raw. Also, the old flips were authenticated buy Murphy or Rutter and although they make mistakes, they are certainly close to the same level as Steve. In fact, I would bet Steve learned a lot from Murphy. I know Rutter certainly did.

Griffins · September 4, 2008 2:05PM

Rutter certified all those bogus cello packs, including the grocery packs. Murphy certified the bogus Xmas rack packs and still touts them.

Paul Wright was in there somewhere, I hope he graded the ones I own.

RawPlusSlabbed · September 4, 2008 2:57PM

<< Rutter certified all those bogus cello packs, including the grocery packs. Murphy certified the bogus Xmas rack packs and still touts them.

Paul Wright was in there somewhere, I hope he graded the ones I own. >>

True, but I am sure there will come a day that Steve makes a mistake just as big. In Mark's prime, he was bigger than Steve is today.

grote15 · September 4, 2008 3:02PM

Murphy never certified a holiday rack for GAI though he did sell them some years back...at least those were somewhat vinatge (albeit produced with circulated cards). The ones up for sale these days are god-awful by comparison.

Stone193 · September 4, 2008 3:13PM

Not really.

For me - packs are for buying and selling or displaying unopened.

Too much downside vs the cost of the material IMO.

Tho I do remember as others will - the guy who bought a 52T pack for like 1500 and pulled a Pafko that graded a 10 and he sold it for almost 100K!

If ya like to gamble? Then I can't think of a better way to have some fun.
mike

stevek · September 4, 2008 4:09PM

<< Not really.

For me - packs are for buying and selling or displaying unopened.

Too much downside vs the cost of the material IMO.

Tho I do remember as others will - the guy who bought a 52T pack for like 1500 and pulled a Pafko that graded a 10 and he sold it for almost 100K!

If ya like to gamble? Then I can't think of a better way to have some fun.
mike >>

<<< Tho I do remember as others will - the guy who bought a 52T pack for like 1500 and pulled a Pafko that graded a 10 and he sold it for almost 100K! >>>

Just my opinion, I do not know the story, but I have to believe this story may have been embellished in some way to benefit the grading company of the slab it was pulled from - maybe I'm wrong and it wouldn't bother me at all to stand corrected. However in any event, I would be as sure as possible even if the "story" were true, that the days of a "find" such as this are long, LONG gone.

stevek · September 4, 2008 4:14PM

<<>>

Yes, I agree that it needs to be in the spirit of "fun" because attempting to bust unopened slabbed packs for profit, especially vintage packs pre-1974, is a stone cold money loser.

flatfoot816 · September 4, 2008 8:32PM

GAI has had its problems in part due to the people that were grading the packs. In order to be really sure if you shuld have confidence in the packs, you would need to know who was grading them at the time, which is almost imposible unless you work for GAI. The reality of it is that you have to know where the pack came from if possible. I will buy a GAI graded pack if I know where it originated from or buy from a person that I know has been in the unopened market long before grading was around.

There are about 12-20 serious pack collectors out there who fall into this category. I have an extensive unopened collection and probably have bought from the same 12-20 people. When we consign stuff, we always let the others know. As for eBay, I buy rarely and only from those I trust. Does not matter if it is an old flip or new one. And you must always check out the pack.

I will ALWAYS pay a premium to buy from people like Steve and other known pack veterans. I used to say the same for Murphy unitl he touted those X-MAs Rack Packs--

spazzy · September 5, 2008 2:26AM

At the time, we were trusting GAI over our own experience of collecting unopened material. I got caught up just like many other people did back then about having to slab our stuff. As a side note Ryan Rutter passed away last year from cancer that he was fighting for a long time. Sure he was a big talker but once in awhile it was nice to talk to a person who was real pumped about talking about unopened stuff....Spazzy

Justintime · September 8, 2008 10:46AM

flatfoot816 · September 9, 2008 2:55AM

Wow! Did n to know about Rutter passing. Would not wish that on anyone. Think I'll go home and rip a pack in his honor!

WinPitcher · September 9, 2008 3:13AM

I do not trust anything from GAI.

packs, cards, Titanic relics, etc.

Steve

Justintime · September 9, 2008 2:14PM

Now i See on GAI site they are authenticating disney stuff too. Maybe they have gone a little goofy

Justintime · September 9, 2008 2:16PM

Or maybe since mickey mouse is now there head authenticator they figured he knew disney items well

tsalems1 · September 9, 2008 2:49PM

<< I second on the older flips...the newer flips are garbage.

Edit: I've been very fortunate with older graded GAI packs. I've opened dozens and can say that only a few seemed questionable or resealed. Unfortunately, their present grader(s) have no knowledge about unopened product, though.

Older GAI flips are still a much better option than buying raw (unless you've done your research and know and trust the seller)...Steve Hart once estimated that at leasat 50% of raw unopened packs on ebay are resealed...that percentage is MUCH higher now.

Also, "fun" packs containing 2-3 cards were produced in 1974 and 1975. >>

I had a bunch of 2 card packs from 1976 topps football

zep33 · September 9, 2008 7:44PM

I remember my mom buying those 2-3 card packs as a kid. They came in a bag and she would give them out at halloween (if I didn't get my hands on them first)

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · September 9, 2008 11:34PM

Would you trust this for $13k Jordan Front AND Back !

grote15 · September 10, 2008 10:36AM

That looks like a very old GAI holder, before they printed "Authentic Unopened" on the flip. If the serial number starts with a 100, it's likely that pack was graded by Mark Murphy or Paul Wright.

RipublicaninMass · September 10, 2008 10:43AM

<< That looks like a very old GAI holder, before they printed "Authentic Unopened" on the flip. If the serial number starts with a 100, it's likely that pack was graded by Mark Murphy or Paul Wright. >>

KINDA funny the slab doesnt say "unopened"

grote15 · September 10, 2008 10:46AM

That looks like a very old GAI holder, before they printed "Authentic Unopened" on the flip. If the serial number starts with a 100, it's likely that pack was graded by Mark Murphy or Paul Wright. >>

KINDA funny the slab doesnt say "unopened"

None of the earliest GAI holders did. They added that phrase shortly after they started grading. However, I'll tell you one thing--I'd trust one of those earlier graded packs 1000 times more than the ones with the new holder. Like him or not, at least Murphy knew unopened inside out when he was doing the grading.

jamesryanbell · October 2, 2008 3:39AM

<< That looks like a very old GAI holder, before they printed "Authentic Unopened" on the flip. If the serial number starts with a 100, it's likely that pack was graded by Mark Murphy or Paul Wright. >>

KINDA funny the slab doesnt say "unopened"

None of the earliest GAI holders did. They added that phrase shortly after they started grading. However, I'll tell you one thing--I'd trust one of those earlier graded packs 1000 times more than the ones with the new holder. Like him or not, at least Murphy knew unopened inside out when he was doing the grading. >>

Who grades the newer ones?

1neatstuff · October 2, 2008 4:27AM

i must chirp in on this i agree 100% with grote the new packs and holders with the new gai flip are garbage...i have plenty of unopened packs and i trust the older gai holders over any of the new ones..i havent sent anything in to be graded over the last year as i do not trust any graders anymore on packs...we must remember that this is someones oponion...there are about 12 of us that collect vintage packs that i know of and i think its safe to say that there are more bad ones in the new gai holders...

Charlie9 · October 2, 2008 4:35AM

I wouldn't touch GAI whether old or new flips...... however - in the case where it is from a sealed case I would trust that much more. I would tend to go for it if it's labeled on the flip that it was from a sealed case. Just my .02

rube26105 · October 2, 2008 4:44AM

nope gai sucks- i saud that sept 4th- id take it if t was free i guess

1neatstuff · October 2, 2008 4:55AM

proofer2 · October 2, 2008 5:56AM

If what all of you are saying about GAI is true, then it must be that most packs, boxes etc. are not being opened. Chronic overgrading and suspect authentication for an extended period of time most surely would have caught up to them by now. I'm not a GAI fan mainly because of the bile I read here and because their product just looks cheesy to me, but I did just open a 1971 topps football cello pack and got an 8 (maybe 8.5) Unitas and a strong 9 candidate Charley Taylor card, so its made me feel a little better about the scant packs of theirs I do have...

BobS · October 2, 2008 5:57AM

I'm in the minority around here - but hey - buy the pack,not the holder.

stevek · October 2, 2008 6:13AM

Rube mentioned "free" and actually that's not a bad frame of reference to make a point. If the packs are cheap, and ripping a few and if some are opened and some weren't then so what. But my interest is ripping 50's and 60's packs and take for example a 62 Topps, depending on grade they range roughly from $500 to $1,000 - In my view ya gotta be a real gluten for punishment to spend that kind of money, and "wonder" if the pack is resealed or not. Not me - I'll pass. And I truly wish there were some way to "guarantee" that a slabbed pack hasn't been resealed, because i wouldn't mind at all spending the money to bust some truly unopened packs.

jmoran19 · October 2, 2008 8:13AM

<< If what all of you are saying about GAI is true, then it must be that most packs, boxes etc. are not being opened. Chronic overgrading and suspect authentication for an extended period of time most surely would have caught up to them by now. I'm not a GAI fan mainly because of the bile I read here and because their product just looks cheesy to me, but I did just open a 1971 topps football cello pack and got an 8 (maybe 8.5) Unitas and a strong 9 candidate Charley Taylor card, so its made me feel a little better about the scant packs of theirs I do have... >>

Can you post a picture of the cards you got? Also, how many did you get in the pack, 23? Thanks, John

grote15 · October 2, 2008 10:50AM

There are a boatload of bad 77 packs with the new GAI label floating around on ebay right now. New flips are garbage.

proofer2 · October 2, 2008 12:24PM

Hey Jmoran, I will this weekend. Funny you ask about the # of cards in the pack. I was very suspicious that the GAI label said 23 cards in this pack when I always thought that there were 30 cards in the 1970 cello and then 25 cards in the 1972 and 1973 football cellos. Why the hell would they lower the # in 71, then raise it back up in 72?? Anyway, that's exactly the reason why I decided to open the pack, but I was pleasantly surprised with the what I got.

Do you trust graded GAI unopened wax?

Comments