Higbees recently told me they have had reports of their rack cases not having Ripkens. I know one guy who bought a few (4?) and one or 2 was this way. They thought it possibly had something to do with "K-Mart" cases. K-Mart not wanting the FF to accidentally show up on their floor. Or probally worried about failed attemted corrections. While possible, as we at my job "special order" product for certain customers, this is the 1st time I have heard this. I have always thought it was from the "saw cut" and no replacement made available yet.
All I can do to help prove/debunk this is to find racks with K-Mart price tags. I do have 2 with Woolsworths tags though. In case you were wondering.
Based on absolutely no real knowledge haha, I do have to say it would surprise me that one outlet would be able to "special order" this type of product. However, I guess it could be reasonable that Fleer went to their major retailers and said, "yeah we screwed up, but we guarantee that any cases from here on out will not contain the error" and then figure out whatever they had to do to make it happen. None at all might have been an interim solution. Maybe they dedicated one of the print facilities to this sort of thing to be sure that none of the FF were going out.
Of course I'm just talking and there may be no truth to any of that.
Whats odd is I have heard that printing was done @ Oulook Gaphics in Co. and another guy said it was done in a different location. That guy claims to own a box of factory rejects he pulled from the dumpster in 1989 and they're stored at his parents (no pics/proof of this).
In an email to Ted Taylor (started for Fleer in 1991) he stated printing was only done by Fleer in PA.
I'd be surprised if all cards were printed and cut in one place. Doesn't seem like it would be hard to outsource that sort of thing. But I don't know anything about anything.
I was told Outlook in CO. I think it was Boulder, or maybe that is just a familiar name that pops in my head. I have the city info at home.
I have always thought printing was outsourced. And possibly on site as well. Ted from Fleer told us it was all on site but he didn't come to the company until 1991 and said Fleer kept very casual records so maybe they outsourced in 1989 and later changed to on site afte they realized they had a plethora of FF versions and they looked unorganized. The Black Box aka "The final answer" Has 4 variations. 4. ? Hows that for a final correction? I'm unsure of the printing process as possbly they had 4 presses and for some reason made different plates, later changed plates, or maybe more than 1 printing company made their own plates and ea. had slight variances. ?
"Panic motivated all the variations. The Mustin's thought the end of the world had come. They were, after all, Quakers and this was not the kind of message they wanted associated with Fleer. Mustin was Fleer's son-in-law. It's why he sold the company for a song to Paul Mullan's group. He simply wanted out!" Ted
Another odd card that points to numerous plates being used is the Black Scribble. There is 2 versions that could not of been the same plate altered.
Years back a guy emailed my buddy and said he had printing plates. They were at another location and when he went there he would get us pics. We never heard from him again. We seem to get good leads and then most just drop off.
The latest is this- "Back in the late1980"s I lived by the fleer trading card factory. Every so often we would search the dumster behind the building because they would throw out cards and stuff. Some times we would get lucky and find some. In 1989 when I was 10 years old we found thousands of cards of the same player. Alot of them had different types of marking on them. Some had those knotches in them and some had the white blobs on them if I remember correctly. Some were blank on one side and we did not take too many of them home. My friend called me the other day and told me about your web site and said that the cards you talk about look like some of the cards that we took. Unfortunatly he said he threw all of his away years ago but mine should be in my parents attic. There shoud be a garbage bag full and a few shoe boxes. I do not know if I can be of any help but if you tell me what to look for I can go there and look through them if they are still there. I called my mom and she said she did not know if they were there because the attic is a big mess. thanks, robert "
This guy James, used to work at the PA printing plant. "email me some of your questions. i called you last night but it's late here on the east coast. fleer did not produce the cards on their own, they outsourced their card printing to the name of the printing factory was panel prints in old forge pa.. this is the same place that printed all topps cards, which by the way is only a mile away from where they produce the gum to be put in the card packs. look on a piece of bazooka joe gum and you will see the duryea pa. address. the only cover up that i was aware of is the black box. the white out cards seem to be fake to me. it was originally thought that someone in the plate dept. etched the (removed word) face in the card before printing. this would explaine why the photographer and others never noticed. has anyone ever seen the orig. bat outside the famous photo? if you need to know more , let me know."
Ted said the printing was all done at 10th & Somerville in Phila. I have yet to find that the 10th & Somerville and Old Forge is the same location but I do think they are different but close to each other.
I need to go to PA. Once there I can track down and interview-
- the X- Artistic director from Fleer who does/did reside in PA. who could be of assistance. -V. Murray, though I was told he wont talk about it due to embarrasement. Hopefully he has gotten over it, being 19 years later. - I wish I could of talked to Don Peck who was the President of Fleer at the time of the FF incident but has since passed away.
Wow thanks for all the info. I remember seeing that Peck had passed away earlier this year. Though if I remember correctly the cause was alzheimer's so he sadly may not have been able to help for a few years regardless.
Comments
Intriguing that for a period (brief or otherwise) they were shipping boxes/cases without any Ripkens.
Guess we'll just have to hope that one of them shows up in a cello or rack. Will be interesting when that happens.
All I can do to help prove/debunk this is to find racks with K-Mart price tags. I do have 2 with Woolsworths tags though. In case you were wondering.
Of course I'm just talking and there may be no truth to any of that.
In an email to Ted Taylor (started for Fleer in 1991) he stated printing was only done by Fleer in PA.
I'd be surprised if all cards were printed and cut in one place. Doesn't seem like it would be hard to outsource that sort of thing. But I don't know anything about anything.
I was told Outlook in CO. I think it was Boulder, or maybe that is just a familiar name that pops in my head. I have the city info at home.
I have always thought printing was outsourced. And possibly on site as well. Ted from Fleer told us it was all on site but he didn't come to the company until 1991 and said Fleer kept very casual records so maybe they outsourced in 1989 and later changed to on site afte they realized they had a plethora of FF versions and they looked unorganized. The Black Box aka "The final answer" Has 4 variations. 4. ? Hows that for a final correction? I'm unsure of the printing process as possbly they had 4 presses and for some reason made different plates, later changed plates, or maybe more than 1 printing company made their own plates and ea. had slight variances. ?
"Panic motivated all the variations. The Mustin's thought the end of the world had come. They were, after all, Quakers and this was not the kind of message they wanted associated with Fleer. Mustin was Fleer's son-in-law. It's why he sold the company for a song to Paul Mullan's group. He simply wanted out!" Ted
Another odd card that points to numerous plates being used is the Black Scribble. There is 2 versions that could not of been the same plate altered.
Years back a guy emailed my buddy and said he had printing plates. They were at another location and when he went there he would get us pics. We never heard from him again. We seem to get good leads and then most just drop off.
The latest is this- "Back in the late1980"s I lived by the fleer trading card factory. Every so often we would search the dumster behind the building because they would throw out cards and stuff. Some times we would get lucky and find some. In 1989 when I was 10 years old we found thousands of cards of the same player. Alot of them had different types of marking on them. Some had those knotches in them and some had the white blobs on them if I remember correctly. Some were blank on one side and we did not take too many of them home. My friend called me the other day and told me about your web site and said that the cards you talk about look like some of the cards that we took. Unfortunatly he said he threw all of his away years ago but mine should be in my parents attic. There shoud be a garbage bag full and a few shoe boxes. I do not know if I can be of any help but if you tell me what to look for I can go there and look through them if they are still there. I called my mom and she said she did not know if they were there because the attic is a big mess. thanks, robert "
This guy James, used to work at the PA printing plant.
"email me some of your questions. i called you last night but it's late here on the east coast. fleer did not produce the cards on their own, they outsourced their card printing to the name of the printing factory was panel prints in old forge pa.. this is the same place that printed all topps cards, which by the way is only a mile away from where they produce the gum to be put in the card packs. look on a piece of bazooka joe gum and you will see the duryea pa. address. the only cover up that i was aware of is the black box. the white out cards seem to be fake to me. it was originally thought that someone in the plate dept. etched the (removed word) face in the card before printing. this would explaine why the photographer and others never noticed. has anyone ever seen the orig. bat outside the famous photo? if you need to know more , let me know."
Ted said the printing was all done at 10th & Somerville in Phila. I have yet to find that the 10th & Somerville and Old Forge is the same location but I do think they are different but close to each other.
I need to go to PA. Once there I can track down and interview-
- the X- Artistic director from Fleer who does/did reside in PA. who could be of assistance.
-V. Murray, though I was told he wont talk about it due to embarrasement. Hopefully he has gotten over it, being 19 years later.
- I wish I could of talked to Don Peck who was the President of Fleer at the time of the FF incident but has since passed away.
We need to borrow Matlock from the other thread to sort this mess out.
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