1989 Fleer Bill Ripken Saw Cut
1989FleerBillRipkencollector
Posts: 4,590
I got a great deal on these. Should have them in hand by the weekend.
I'm giving one away free, so if you want one be the 1st to reply on here.
I think they are the F showing Black Scribble variation.
I'm giving one away free, so if you want one be the 1st to reply on here.
I think they are the F showing Black Scribble variation.
0
Comments
<< <i>awesome lot! >>
Did you want one?
CDsNuts, 1/9/15
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CDsNuts, 1/9/15
<< <i>
<< <i>awesome lot! >>
Did you want one? >>
Oops...I missed that part before I replied. I will defer to the next in line. I just didn't expect to see 12 of those cards lined up like that. I ripped a lot of that stuff back in 1989 looking for that card and never did pull one.
DavidPuddy
PM me your address. Once I get them, I'll send you one free. I'll send you both one since it was a bit of confusion.
I'm giving away others elsewhere and only have 5 left.
VitoCo1972- $5 shipped ?
Mike
billwaltonsbeard
skilow
$5 each shipped.
Wait until I get them in hand and I'll PM you my paypal or address for payment.
Yep, quite the popular card, it was. In the new Sept. Beckett there a small write up on errors and the FF is #1 !
Saw Cuts aka Strip aka Slit aka Dude, where's the rest of my card?
Process- (apparently)
Uncut Sheets were on pallets (confirmed)
The maintanence man used a saw to cut card #616. Since he was on the bottom of the sheet, access was easy.
(I was told this buy someone who talked to a maintance man) I believe them as they had many FF discards they bought from that man that appeared to be dumpster treasures.
Cards were cut individually and then the now easily identifiable cards could be pulled before packout. Alot of these slipped by and were inserted into packs. Others were backdoored as a guy I know was buying them off a worker who snuck them out in her bra.
The cut was not done to remove the words, cuts vary in length and placement and many different versions were cut, I assume to "clean up" once the final answer "The Black Box" was made.
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classy move. Thanks alot!
James
I don't know the whole background on these so forgive me if this is a dumb question.
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<< <i>Jeez... how big was that woman's bra? And how many did she sneak out at a time?! And does she still have scars from corner jabbing?! >>
Haha!! Great visual!
A few of these made it into packs. The OP has shown us packs with this card on the front.
<< <i>I have a couple of the saw-cut FF cards that I pulled from packs in 1989 but none of the other saw-cut versions. How many different cut versions are there?
James >>
Total # of different versions with saw cut- 6
<< <i>How do you know if the "saw cut" was done at the factory or by a guy in his garage?
I don't know the whole background on these so forgive me if this is a dumb question. >>
Thats the problem. The only thing I have noticed is the longer cuts have a wobble from the blade running up the stack. You cant notice this on the short ones though.
I have seen a few that were creased and had indentions on the cards front. I thought those to be fake. Most likely the indentions were from a C- clamp?
<< <i>Sweet, I always wanted one of these. But I was worried about buying a fake. Thanks! >>
Hopefully these are real. I wont have a better idea until I get them.
<< <i>You ARE the #1 expert. >>
That's made himself "public". Surely there is someone out there who has been doing this since it's release. I started in late 03 early 04. I hope someday to find that guy as I still have many unanswered questions.
Here's one that many should know but I have yet to get proof. In 1989 if you sent a FF back to Fleer they sent you a replacement. What version? I have heard 2 different stories, maybe both true but I want more than 2 stories to confirm it.
Also Fleer apparently sent you a letter with it as well. One guy I met tossed his. Someone had to keep one.
Someone out there also has to have a 1989 Fleer sell sheet as well.
I need to somehow get to a few Nationals.
Well here's to those older collectors getting older and Social Security failing and they then have to sell their stuff
skilow- They prospect, only ones that they can flip. Please send high end only. Thanks. Oh and Next day air. Their impatient.
<< <i>pandrews- If I counted right from here and elsewhere I think I'm out. I offered one to a guy I know and he has yet to respond. If he declines it's yours. I'll PM you either way as soon as I know. >>
cool deal.
voodoo hex on whoever it is.
I'd love to get one if you have any left. Thanks!
<< <i>D- would the different places the cards were packaged account for the variations? Who bought the printing plates that made the cards? What about uncut sheets printed for replacements? >>
I think the different places of printing had a major impact on the version count. I have heard of 2 locations that Fleer outsourced printing in 1989. One place is sorta confirmed, as the guy said he worked there and had alot of uncut sheets. One was a proof. I'm unsure if they used one printing press or whatever they used at the location but the Black Scribbles have variations that couldn't of been the same card/plate scratched on. Also the Black Box was their final answer. There is round,square and with/without jagged line. I dont think they would of made a Black Box correction plate so I assume they had more than one plate used for printing and they were just made slightly different. Im unsure though. I have talked to 2 people that worked for Fleer but both really didnt have any answers for me. Basically they would say "It was a frenzy and I think they made 4 versions". Ugh, I keep finding the people with bad memories or ones that swept in a corner for 2 hours a day. lol One guy emailed and seemed confident and knowledgable. I emailed him appx. 10 questions. He never responded or to my follow up email as well. I wept.
Who has the plates? Wish I knew. Would love just a picture of them.
Uncut sheets? Who knows where they went but based on the number of ones I have seen I think alot were backdoored. Since the card created a frenzy, I assume alot of factory workers saw $$ in their eyes and grabbed what they could. I assume/hope that alot still have many rejects or other interesting cards.
<< <i>I'm mad I missed this post!
I'd love to get one if you have any left. Thanks! >>
Sorry, I'm down to 1, maybe 2 and with the ones I gave away free I'll need to sell these (more than $5 shipped) to break even.
To those who might be offended-
Not trying to solicit cards intentionlly on this non BST board. Started off as a giveaway and ran from there.
My Paypal is vandi4@aol.com or LMK if you need my mailing address.
Please include your CU name in message area on Paypal payment.
I'll be back to PM recepients who didnt see this when time allows.
<< <i>I've always thought it was cool that you focus on the 89 fleer ripken. Its a card that many outside the hobby knew about at one time thanks to the media. I remember my grandmother asking me about it. I've checked out your site a few times; the fact there are so many variations boggles the mind. Can you give some more info on these saw cuts? Your site says "narrow strip on card to mark it for removal." Does that mean removal from distribution? Any idea how the strip was cut, I guess I don't understand enough about card production to see how they could have cut these but them still distributed them. I would also be interested in one if there are any left. >>
email me @ info@billripken.com as you dont have your PM turned on.
So do you think PSA would even AUTH these or aren't they going to touch them?
<< <i>Got mine today - THANK YOU!
So do you think PSA would even AUTH these or aren't they going to touch them? >>
PSA, and BGS will not slab them. It's either-
A.) GAI They no longer assign grades, just mark them as Authentic or not.
B.) GEM will slab them as well. They call it "Preventing Overgraded Slabs" service. Don't you get scared sending your cards thru the mail? Well then try their new P.O.S. service. This service is where you describe the cards condition over the phone which isnt really all that important, as it's an opinion and they will send you the pre-printed GEM10 label they have waiting. They will also Fed-X a "travel size" sealing machine so you can seal your card. Send the machine back to them in the box they sent it to you by just removing the stamps. Once you leave the box in the mail carriers vehicle once they are out stuffing mailboxes, the carrier will eventually see the sender (GEM) didnt include postage to get it to you and will return it to them.
Now I got the gun you got the brew
You got two choices of what you can do
It's not a tough decision as you can see
You can send to GEM it's a 10, easy.
lol
Glad you got the card. Happy Hunting
CDsNuts, 1/9/15
<< <i>My mail just arrived. Thanks for opening up my world to the FF. >>
No problem. Have fun.
Few suggestions-
The FF is not rare.
You should not pay more than a few bucks for a 1989 Fleer B/W test as they are fake. (Back in 04 I paid around $70. Thought I scored a rarity until the next week ebay was flooded with them. )
Whiteouts are easily counterfitted. In my experiences if the "white" should have no gloss. I have seen/owned 2 that had partial gloss and were deemed real. The full gloss is easily done by a method that's simple and unfortunately me mentioning it would cause more harm than good.
Some legit sealed cases (seems like 75% of the ones I have bought) will not have a FF variation.
The 1994 Simpsons Bongo #4 comic has a interesting parody card of the FF.
BGS, PSA SGC etc will not grade the saw cuts or label the minor differences.
GAI will as will some other 3rd rate companies.
Have any questions feel free to contact me.
Hapy Hunting
<< <i>What is your opinion on the authenticity of these cards? You had previously mentioned that you werent 100% sure if they were actually factory cut, and you would make more of a determination once you got them and took a closer look. >>
Had they been fake in my opinion I would not have sold them.
I do know they were not made with a xacto or similar cutting device.
They were cut with a saw. That I'm sure of. Now to know if it was a saw in someone's garage vs. Fleer's that's the tricky part. There is a way to tell and that has to be kept secret or else lurking scammers would be all over it. If anyone I know PM's me I will elaborate.
I will refund anyone who has doubts or anything.
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Once again, very nice of you to do that. Much appreciated.
<< <i>
Whiteouts are easily counterfitted. In my experiences if the "white" should have no gloss. I have seen/owned 2 that had partial gloss and were deemed real. The full gloss is easily done by a method that's simple and unfortunately me mentioning it would cause more harm than good.
Some legit sealed cases (seems like 75% of the ones I have bought) will not have a FF variation.
BGS, PSA SGC etc will not grade the saw cuts or label the minor differences.
>>
The whiteouts still confuse me. Seems like kind of a big unknown all around... I don't think I'd ever buy one that wasn't graded, but based on what you're saying that's not even a guarantee, right?
You mean that 75% of the cases you've bought contain versions other than the FF? That seems surprising.
I'm actually glad to hear that PSA and SGC won't grade the saw cuts. Seems like the "smart" thing to do.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Whiteouts are easily counterfitted. In my experiences if the "white" should have no gloss. I have seen/owned 2 that had partial gloss and were deemed real. The full gloss is easily done by a method that's simple and unfortunately me mentioning it would cause more harm than good.
Some legit sealed cases (seems like 75% of the ones I have bought) will not have a FF variation.
BGS, PSA SGC etc will not grade the saw cuts or label the minor differences.
>>
The whiteouts still confuse me. Seems like kind of a big unknown all around... I don't think I'd ever buy one that wasn't graded, but based on what you're saying that's not even a guarantee, right?
You mean that 75% of the cases you've bought contain versions other than the FF? That seems surprising.
I'm actually glad to hear that PSA and SGC won't grade the saw cuts. Seems like the "smart" thing to do. >>
I was jokingly saying that 75% of the cases I have bought ( in actuality about 4-5 cases) have NO versions at all. This is due to the "saw cut era" and Fleer's QC was doing their job. I think I have gotten 1 or 2 cases with the FF in them. Back when these were hot, dealers knowing their stuff would most likely buy the ones with the error and crack them out as quickly as they could and flip. My local dealer told me how he made like $800 on a case he bought Fri and sold on Mon.
Whiteouts are a tough call. Inconsistent sizes, little info. Some argue they were never made by Fleer. I'm waiting for the day I see one on a rack pack. One guy said he had one on a cello and offered to sell it @ $1,000 but was unable to provide any pics. A few others have claimed to have pulled them from wax. Thats about it.
I have tried to make them using traditional Whiteout and other substances but gladly with no success. Only until I bought a card and watched as the seller sold another after another did I learn how he was making them. When not in hand, the card looks real and cannot really be identified. The dead giveaway was the gloss. Now I have seen Whiteouts that were legit and had a partial area of the white with gloss (only 2 cards) I sent them to BGS and they deemed Auth. altered and I then cracked them out and PSA slabed them. But these were not made by the method I previously mentioned. So I'm unsure on what happened.
Yeah I'm glad the saw cuts are not slabbed by the big companies or widly collected. I dont want to buy a forgery.
Whats good to know is there is a version. Call it version X. Anyone here could make it easily. I have submitted many "new" versions to GAI and they have slabbed them and labeled them accordingly (whats cool is some names we came up with !! ) (Dude, I'm going down in history, lol) as long as I have documentation. My buddy sent 2 version X's he made (not to scam, but to see if they were just slabbing what we sent) along with documentation and they rejected them. Whew.