PCGS Grades are in - not really what I was hoping for

zeebob · August 26, 2008 4:02AM

Sent in a few coins to PCGS. Three orders were to cross over some NGC and ANACs coins. One order was for two raw coins to be graded. Pretty happy with the raw coin results.

I'm now contemplating trying to get CAC stickers on all the slabs. Wondering if CAC will sticker an NGC graded coin that PCGS would refuse to cross into PCGS plastic. That would be interesting to know.

Then I could resubmit the CAC'd coins to PCGS and see if I got different results.

(Or maybe I should just dump the NGC dogs and be done with it - can replace the widgets with new ones already in PCGS slabs)... Wasn't there a thread about getting unburied in coins?

The following DID NOT CROSS ----------------------------------------

1855 1/2 C (NGC MS64BN)
1856 1 C N-14 slante 5 (NGC MS65BN)
1864 2 C Large Motto (NGC MS65RB)
1865 2 C (NGC MS65RB)
1851 3CS (NGC MS64)
1883 5C with cents (NGC MS65)

The following DID NOT CROSS with a BB recommendation -----

1838 1 C (NGC MS65BN) ARTIFICIAL COLOR
1798 $1 (NGC XF45) Large Eagle CLEANED

The following did cross at the same grade ------------------------

1855 1/2 C (NGC MS65BN)
1886 5C with rays (NGC MS64)
1916-D 10C (ANACS G6)
1837 H10C (ANACS MS62) No Stars, Small Date

The following raw coins graded --------------------------------------

1910-S 1C MS65RB
1908-D 50C AU58

Have about this many more still awaiting judgement at PCGS.

TomB · August 26, 2008 4:21AM

I have two comments. The first is that simply because a coin did not cross from NGC to PCGS on a single submission does not make it a dog and the other is that the PCGS opinion, like the NGC opinion and possible CAC opinion, is a static data point chosen among a dynamic opinion that can otherwise change over time.

dizzyfoxx · August 26, 2008 4:21AM

<not really what I was hoping for >

Is it ever???

BECOKA · August 26, 2008 4:33AM

Welcome to the club.

Good learning experience.

ziggy29 · August 26, 2008 4:42AM

Play the game, pay the tax...

ricko · August 26, 2008 4:47AM

If the grade does not fit, you must resubmit...

Cheers, RickO

fc · August 26, 2008 5:20AM

200 to 300 dollars you could have spent on a coin....

buffalohunter · August 26, 2008 5:33AM

been there did that welcome to the club is right

Bochiman · August 26, 2008 6:14AM

<< I have two comments. The first is that simply because a coin did not cross from NGC to PCGS on a single submission does not make it a dog and the other is that the PCGS opinion, like the NGC opinion and possible CAC opinion, is a static data point chosen among a dynamic opinion that can otherwise change over time. >>

In addition to what TomB says above, which is right on, I will just add in.....at least you didn't crack them out, have them BB, and then come on here crying because you had cracked them.

Unless I am willing to accept all the lumps that come with gambling, I would never crack out a coin I wanted to crossover. Let them do it.

I do find it interesting that you got "Did not cross with a BB recommendation" from them....did you pay the extra $20/coin to get the grader's comments?

zeebob · August 26, 2008 7:18AM

<< 

<< I have two comments. The first is that simply because a coin did not cross from NGC to PCGS on a single submission does not make it a dog and the other is that the PCGS opinion, like the NGC opinion and possible CAC opinion, is a static data point chosen among a dynamic opinion that can otherwise change over time. >>

In addition to what TomB says above, which is right on, I will just add in.....at least you didn't crack them out, have them BB, and then come on here crying because you had cracked them.

Unless I am willing to accept all the lumps that come with gambling, I would never crack out a coin I wanted to crossover. Let them do it.

I do find it interesting that you got "Did not cross with a BB recommendation" from them....did you pay the extra $20/coin to get the grader's comments? >>

Didn't pay any extra, just the usual "regular service level" grading fee (for the $1 they charged the express service fee because of the value of the coin). The comments were just posted on the internet in the usual way that a grade is posted (or a BB remark is posted).

I figured there was some good chance the 1798 draped bust dollar would come back as "cleaned." NGC apparently decided the scratches were from circulation. whatever. But the large cent that came back as "artificial color" really surprised me. The coin is a very nice, and to my eye, natural brown. The strike is a bit weak, but the surface seems clean to me.

GrumpyEd · August 26, 2008 7:23AM

1838 1 C (NGC MS65BN) ARTIFICIAL COLOR

That's scary! Even within the top TPGs the same coin can be an MS65 or it can be a bodybag.

<< at least you didn't crack them out, have them BB >>

So true

zeebob · August 26, 2008 7:25AM

<< 200 to 300 dollars you could have spent on a coin.... >>

Tuition isn't cheap, but in my experience is money well spent. Better to learn to make bread than buy a fish. I have enough coins, now it's time for more education. I'm already putting together the next batch of submissions (all raw coins this time).

notwilight · August 26, 2008 8:45AM

I'd like to see the 1838 1C. thanks, Jerry

zeebob · August 26, 2008 9:30AM

<< I'd like to see the 1838 1C. thanks, Jerry >>

When I get it back, I'll photograph it. I bought Mark Goodman's book and have been itching to try some slab photography (I've had bad results in the past with photographing slabs). I'll post the photo here.

lasvegasteddy · August 26, 2008 9:30AM

i'd like to see the 10-s 65r/b

just wondering if you had "cross at same grade or cross at any" as i'd think that corners them some as if demanding in a way

Bochiman · August 26, 2008 10:38AM

<< 

<< 200 to 300 dollars you could have spent on a coin.... >>

Tuition isn't cheap, but in my experience is money well spent. Better to learn to make bread than buy a fish. I have enough coins, now it's time for more education. I'm already putting together the next batch of submissions (all raw coins this time). >>

Great answer! Too many people fail to try to understand someone else's reasoning and motivation. They like to think others should think like them.

notwilight · August 26, 2008 10:41AM

<< 

<< I'd like to see the 1838 1C. thanks, Jerry >>

When I get it back, I'll photograph it. I bought Mark Goodman's book and have been itching to try some slab photography (I've had bad results in the past with photographing slabs). I'll post the photo here. >>

White balance will be very important for evaluating the color. thanks, Jerry

zeebob · August 26, 2008 10:57AM

<< i'd like to see the 10-s 65r/b

just wondering if you had "cross at same grade or cross at any" as i'd think that corners them some as if demanding in a way >>

I did check the cross at same or higher grade box. Yes, I'm sure it does limit the graders options, but at the same time, I really wanted to know if the coins I paid for at certain grades were, in the opinion of PCGS graders, really of the grade NGC stated. I'm okay with the results. Like I said above, I think of it as tuition.

I have the 1910-S back from PCGS and can try and get over to the safe-deposit box tonight and get it so I can photograph it and post a pic here tomorrow. I don't like the coloration, but that's partly because I don't find the series attractive at all.

Cheers,

Bob

lasvegasteddy · August 26, 2008 11:03AM

<<>>

ok now you set tha hook ok...i love the series and find some of the toning simply amazing

i'd really appreciate your time n effort accordingly soo

zeebob · August 27, 2008 2:16AM

I have the coin with me, and a camera. When the sun gets a bit higher, I'll go out behind the company and shoot a photo or two.

pennyannie · August 27, 2008 2:52AM

While PCGS is great, i could care less what holder the coin is in. The crossover game is just a racket, both sides kick them back as unable to cross a lot. It is FREE money to them. Unless it is a rare coin and THEY want it in there holder they probably let the secretary make the decisions while she paints her nails.

zeebob · August 27, 2008 8:59AM

Big photo... Sorry dial-uppers.

RedneckHB · August 28, 2008 3:55AM

<< I have two comments. The first is that simply because a coin did not cross from NGC to PCGS on a single submission does not make it a dog and the other is that the PCGS opinion, like the NGC opinion and possible CAC opinion, is a static data point chosen among a dynamic opinion that can otherwise change over time. >>

Exactly.

There is another very recent thread where someone submitted a coin in an ANACS 64 holder with a min 64 crossover. It didnt crossover. But when cracked out and sent raw it graded 65. So what changed?

BECOKA · August 28, 2008 3:59AM

<< 

<< I have two comments. The first is that simply because a coin did not cross from NGC to PCGS on a single submission does not make it a dog and the other is that the PCGS opinion, like the NGC opinion and possible CAC opinion, is a static data point chosen among a dynamic opinion that can otherwise change over time. >>

Exactly.

There is another very recent thread where someone submitted a coin in an ANACS 64 holder with a min 64 crossover. It didnt crossover. But when cracked out and sent raw it graded 65. So what changed? >>

What changed is that PCGS could now see the whole coin. In the slab they may have seen something that would have made it questionable as to the grade but would need to crack it out to find out. They always err on the side of caution.

fc · August 28, 2008 4:00AM

<< 

<< I have two comments. The first is that simply because a coin did not cross from NGC to PCGS on a single submission does not make it a dog and the other is that the PCGS opinion, like the NGC opinion and possible CAC opinion, is a static data point chosen among a dynamic opinion that can otherwise change over time. >>

Exactly.

There is another very recent thread where someone submitted a coin in an ANACS 64 holder with a min 64 crossover. It didnt crossover. But when cracked out and sent raw it graded 65. So what changed? >>

the influence of another tpg not allowing objectivity to shine through.

NHSBaseball · August 28, 2008 4:04AM

Y'know, I understand your motivation as well, Zeebob. At first I thought you did poorly on the crossovers until I read that you had checked "cross at the same grade". In my experience, a coin has to be an obvious, dead-on lock in the holder for PCGS to cross it at the same grade- if there is any doubt at all, they DNC the coin.

Looks like a wide variety of coins that you sent in- are you doing a type set, or just whatever catches your eye?

lava · August 28, 2008 4:07AM

If given the choice, a YOU SUCK is always better coming from the forum gang than from PCGS. When PCGS tells you YOU SUCK, it stings a little bit, and you might start believing it.

If PCGS has you convinced, don't buy raw.

zeebob · August 28, 2008 8:26AM

<< Y'know, I understand your motivation as well, Zeebob. At first I thought you did poorly on the crossovers until I read that you had checked "cross at the same grade". In my experience, a coin has to be an obvious, dead-on lock in the holder for PCGS to cross it at the same grade- if there is any doubt at all, they DNC the coin.

Looks like a wide variety of coins that you sent in- are you doing a type set, or just whatever catches your eye? >>

Working on a type set 1800-present for circulating coinage. I'd like it all in PGCS plastic 'cus I like the look of it. Well, that and if I die, my wife will be able to sell it easier. I'd like MS64-66 grades if possible so the set looks uniform. It should keep me busy for a while.

Now I have to think whether cracking out the NGC dogs and sending them in raw to PCGS might be a worth while activity. That or maybe try and CAC the NGC holders then send them into PCGS again as a cross over.

Thanks for the replies and opinions all.

Cheers,

Bob

zeebob · September 3, 2008 8:20AM

notwilight,

Got the coin back today. Here is a set of photos.

rainbowroosie · September 3, 2008 8:26AM

Just went 3 for 8 on free submissions trying to cross: Peace dollar went 65, Stone MT same, 1958D roosie went 67FT. Four roosies and a merc did not cross at 67; sticker said minimum grade for each was 66. Two more roosies should have crossed; they are PQ 67s. The others I can't argue with. Perhaps the wild colors on the two roosies put the graders off; they are so stooopid looking your first reaction is AT...but they are NT... I took them from original holders myself.

mike92694 · September 3, 2008 8:31AM

<< 

<< Y'know, I understand your motivation as well, Zeebob. At first I thought you did poorly on the crossovers until I read that you had checked "cross at the same grade". In my experience, a coin has to be an obvious, dead-on lock in the holder for PCGS to cross it at the same grade- if there is any doubt at all, they DNC the coin.

Looks like a wide variety of coins that you sent in- are you doing a type set, or just whatever catches your eye? >>

Working on a type set 1800-present for circulating coinage. I'd like it all in PGCS plastic 'cus I like the look of it. Well, that and if I die, my wife will be able to sell it easier. I'd like MS64-66 grades if possible so the set looks uniform. It should keep me busy for a while.

Now I have to think whether cracking out the NGC dogs and sending them in raw to PCGS might be a worth while activity. That or maybe try and CAC the NGC holders then send them into PCGS again as a cross over.

Thanks for the replies and opinions all.

Cheers,

Bob >>

Just a note of experience with PCGS. I have an 1820 NGC MS64 BN which did not cross because of "Questionable Color". I also have a 1839 Booby Head 1c which originally did not grade at PCGS because of "Questionable Color" but did eventually grade at NGC as "MS64BN".

Connecticoin · September 3, 2008 8:33AM

<< notwilight,

Got the coin back today. Here is a set of photos.

>>

BS. The color on that coins looks fine to me.

Boom · September 3, 2008 9:03AM

I see no problems with the 1838, at all.

Very PQ & of ALL THINGS - for QUESTIONABLE COLOR?

jhdfla · September 3, 2008 9:15AM

<< 

<< I have two comments. The first is that simply because a coin did not cross from NGC to PCGS on a single submission does not make it a dog and the other is that the PCGS opinion, like the NGC opinion and possible CAC opinion, is a static data point chosen among a dynamic opinion that can otherwise change over time. >>

Exactly.

There is another very recent thread where someone submitted a coin in an ANACS 64 holder with a min 64 crossover. It didnt crossover. But when cracked out and sent raw it graded 65. So what changed? >>

Nothing changed of course, and you'll find professional crack out guys ALWAYS take the coin out of the holder before they re-submit. There is a definate bias against crossing holdered NGC coins at PCGS. The bodybag risk is always there, but more professionals are more confident about their grading skills as opposed to most collectors, hence the reluctance to crack 'em out. Tom's comments were definately spot on BTW...

john

Edited to add, nice '10-S...

zeebob · September 3, 2008 9:16AM

In hand the coin "pops." Nice eye appeal at first glance (color looks fine to me too). The strike is terrible. I've considered upgrading it for a similar coin but with better strike.

jhdfla · September 3, 2008 9:28AM

<< In hand the coin "pops." Nice eye appeal at first glance (color looks fine to me too). The strike is terrible. I've considered upgrading it for a similar coin but with better strike. >>

From the pic the luster looks great. I'm not a Lincoln expert (not my series) but doesn't the '10-S usually come with a weak strike? Maybe a resident Lincoln expert could enlighten us on the 10-S...

john

PCGS Grades are in - not really what I was hoping for

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