Are you prepared to do free shipping on your eBay coin sales?

291fifth · August 20, 2008 6:45AM

No question about it. eBay is pushing sellers in the direction of free shipping. Just go to their site and read the notice about upcoming changes. Don't be surprised to see them try to make free shipping a requirement in the future.

Unfortunately, the free shipping bit has no chance of success. They apparently want to make their site a competitor of Amazon.com. It won't work because while Amazon.com has the ability to purchase shipping materials very cheaply by buying in huge quantities, ordinary eBay sellers don't. How many coin sellers ship more than a few packages a day?

In addition, Amazon.com has contract rates with its shipper. The typical coin seller would be laughed out the door if they went to the USPS, FedEx, UPS, or DHL and demanded the same rates Amazon.com gets.

The large numismatic auction companies must be jumping for joy as eBay's missteps drive more and more business their way.

BECOKA · August 20, 2008 6:51AM

I already do the free shipping thing.

Has not effected my final outcome.

FredWeinberg · August 20, 2008 6:55AM

I've always offered free shipping/insurance/registration fees
on all of my ebay sales (and sales of my website, etc.) as a
way to 'stand out' a bit from the crowd.

I do charge for shipments outside the U.S.

One of my pet peeves is excessive postage and/or insurance fees
that some Ebay sellers charge you.

rgCoinGuy · August 20, 2008 6:58AM

I tried free shipping for two months. One idiot, left crappy shipping feedback for both amount of shipping cost (free) and time of shipping DSRs (I Ship either same day of payment or if after hours and the PO is closed, the next day.) I emailed ebay, and offered to provide proof of my free same day shipping, they didn't care and would not remove the bogus feedback (not that I expected them to). I now charge nominal shipping and my scores are actually up this month. Anyway, that knocked me from 15% to 5% last month on my rebate. Russ has said over and over free shipping will get you hammered, and I am now a believer in that.

Walmann · August 20, 2008 7:20AM

If ebay requires free shipping then it follows they should remove the rating of seller's shipping charges.

In the event that this does come to pass but they keep the rating or shipping charges then it may deemed a ploy to reduce seller's rebate.

Under the current system Ebay should either delete or pre fill the shipping charge to 5 stars on all listings that have free shipping. No reason why that can't be programmed into the feedback. That it is possible for buyers to leave unjust feedback under shipping when free is wrong.

19Lyds · August 20, 2008 7:26AM

<< If ebay requires free shipping then it follows they should remove the rating of seller's shipping charges.

In the event that this does come to pass but they keep the rating or shipping charges then it may deemed a ploy to reduce seller's rebate.

Under the current system Ebay should either delete or pre fill the shipping charge to 5 stars on all listings that have free shipping. No reaseon why that cant be programmed into the feedback. That it is possible for buyers to leave unjust feedback under when shipping is free is wrong. >>

I totally agree!

Wipe them out!

As it sits right now, that damned star is just a pain in the butt since the buyers already know what the frigging charges are going to be so why even give them the opportunity to whine about them after the fact! It would be the exact same thing if they allowed buyers to rate the seller on how much the buyer paid for his/her item!

Of course, this is coming from someone who packages well and ships quickly! No #11 envelopes for me. Everything goes into a Safe-T-Mailer wrapped in a padded envelope with a packing slip!

But I'll tell you why eBay has it! Its because it gives eBay the power to screw up your discounts! Thats why!

notwilight · August 20, 2008 7:32AM

I tried free shipping for a while and my DSRs actually went down. People don't think that "something for nothing" can be legit. Ebay has been pushing free shipping for months since they know sellers still have to charge for shipping somehow so if they build it into the sale price, ebay gets FVF on shipping--equating to millions of dollars for their bottom line.

The good news is it isn't working.

Another option that many ebay sellers have taken is just to give up on DSRs, charge shipping and HANDLIND and accept no Fee rebate. This still works if you're not get a rebate anyway.

--Jerry

sonoranmonsoon · August 20, 2008 7:34AM

I have had free shipping for quite awhile now, about 6 months before the star feedback system came about. I can definately say it has cost me money to provide free shipping in the auction format. Even the discounts that come with my 5.0 DSR's are not offsetting the cost completely. I have not found that buyers bid higher because of free shipping. Quite frankly they seem to take it for granted these days.
However with my store listings I am able to mark up the BIN price to cover the free shipping. Now that EBAY is offerring 30 day BIN with a low insert fee, sellers will be able to cover the free shipping and extra final added fees in the listing price. These changes may very well help sellers manage their costs a bit better. Of course these costs will be higher as Ebay and Paypal will charge more for this. The buyers are the ones that will end up paying more for their purchases. This new format will probably work very well in categories such dvd's, cd's books, etc....all the areas where Amazon has been gaining on Ebay.

Unfortunately, in the collectable categories that we are concerned with, the benifits are not as certain. The buyer will be flooded with higher priced listings, and will start to get used to the prices if they do not shop elsewhere. But there is the rub, most collectors can and do find coins on other sites. The auctions will still be on Ebay, but will be somewhat lost in the crowd. Buyers will start to expect free shipping and could easily ding a small seller's shipping DSR's below the 4.3 if they do not get what they want. As soon as a seller is down to 4.3 in any category Ebay will give them the axe. Auctions will start getting very difficult for sellers. Absorbing Paypal costs on every transaction and giving away free shipping could easily kill any profit margin. (particularly with low priced items). Amazon does not even try to compete in the collectable categories with their business model. Ebay should look at this and have different requirements for collectables, but that is a thread for another time.

Your question about whether Sellers will gravitate more to the big auction houses because of these changes at Ebay is an interesting one. My opinion is yes they definately will. Personally, I made that decision about a month ago, and Ebays latest announcements only reinforce my decision. 99% what I had on Ebay is now at Heritage. Heritages 5% Seller's commision is starting to look better and better, even with the possible lower bids caused by the buyers fees. I do not have to worry about shipping costs, getting paid, dealing with feedback issues, DSR's, time creating listings, Photo's, etc. The only draw back is I have to wait until I have accumilated $5000 worth of coins before submitting to Heritage, and the coins should have a minumum value of $50 each. I am now willing to meet those terms, if it will get me out from under all the Ebay hassles. I suspect a lot of on-line coin sellers are starting to agree, and looking closer at BST listings and major auction houses.

Russ · August 20, 2008 7:37AM

I hope eBay management holds its collective breath while waiting for me to offer free shipping.

Russ, NCNE

Coxe · August 20, 2008 7:41AM

I haven't bothered with dealing with shipping charges for some time now. I know the bidders account for the shippings cost in their bid. I also know I am paying fees effectively on the shipping this way. I also know I haven't bothered to list much in a while on eBay. If any of their incompetents read this, perhaps it might mean something to them but probably not. (Which is why I dumped my shares of their stock a while back too.)

erroid · August 20, 2008 7:52AM

"But I'll tell you why eBay has it! Its because it gives eBay the power to screw up your discounts! Thats why!"

I totaly agree Lee, they don't really want to give ANYTHING back. I charge $3.00 with $1.00 more for same day wins; that's on a $20 item or a $3K item. Sure I loose $$ on anything insured over $50.00, but FREE shipping just don't cut it with me. Of course, eBay wants you to ship for free, they don't make any money on your shipping fees; they're concerned about their "bottom line", not yours....

mrpotatoheadd · August 20, 2008 7:53AM

For buyers excited about the opportunity to get free shipping on all their purchases, there's something you might want to consider. Shipping *isn't* free (if you don't believe me, go to the post office and try to get them to deliver something for you without paying them), and any business hoping to remain in business will have to recover this expense somehow. In other words, the shipping charge gets included in the item price.

Three things (could be more, but these are the first that occurred to me)...

1) When the shipping cost gets rolled into the item cost and you buy two things from the same seller, combined shipping discounts go away. You pay two shipping charges.

2) When the shipping + item cost for individual items exceeds what buyers would be willing to pay for the item alone under a "combined shipping discount" scenario, those items no longer get listed. This reduces the selection of items available for purchase.

3) Some (lots?) of 99 cent/no reserve auctions will disappear, since there will be sellers who aren't going to be interested in risking that they'll have to pay people to take their stuff on top of paying eBay and PayPal for the privilege.

heywally · August 20, 2008 7:56AM

I'm mainly a buyer (auction only so far) and obviously appreciate free shipping but don't use it as part of my criteria in buying a coin as long as the shipping is really at about cost and with the reputable dealers (who are easy to pick out), it is. If I were selling expensive coins though, I'd offer free shipping.

I have to believe that Ebay will end up doing what it needs to to keep desertions down but we shall see - they're dealing with lots of different types of merchants and the one-size-fits-all approach may not work.

One thing for sure is that I am loath to pay a big buyers premium over at ha.com even though they do have lots of nice coins.

PS - where the heck is CoinBay?

sonoranmonsoon · August 20, 2008 8:06AM

<< 

One thing for sure is that I am loath to pay a big buyers premium over at ha.com even though they do have lots of nice coins. >>

I can appreciate that, but Ebay listings will also have a huge buyers premium. You just don't see it. It will be hidden in the BIN or higher auction starting prices. Someone has to pay for PayPal on every transaction, shipping costs, and higher ebay final added fees. Those fees might not be as high as some major auction houses yet, but the gap is getting closer. We also must consider if there will be less higher end coins on ebay anymore. Many sellers would not sell and ship a coin of $5000 or more unless they could see a check or money order clear. A lot of people do not want to risk a possible charge back with Paypal on a $10,000 coin. I do not think we will see the quality high end items on Ebay much anymore.

jessewvu · August 20, 2008 8:07AM

I was suspicous a while ago.

link

notwilight · August 20, 2008 8:09AM

<< One thing for sure is that I am loath to pay a big buyers premium over at ha.com even though they do have lots of nice coins. >>

I guess you'll just have to wait for a numismatic philanthropist to buy Heritage and operate it at a loss from the goodness of their heart.

DeusExMachina · August 20, 2008 8:11AM

<< For buyers excited about the opportunity to get free shipping on all their purchases, there's something you might want to consider. Shipping *isn't* free (if you don't believe me, go to the post office and try to get them to deliver something for you without paying them), and any business hoping to remain in business will have to recover this expense somehow. In other words, the shipping charge gets included in the item price.

Three things (could be more, but these are the first that occurred to me)...

1) When the shipping cost gets rolled into the item cost and you buy two things from the same seller, combined shipping discounts go away. You pay two shipping charges.

2) When the shipping + item cost for individual items exceeds what buyers would be willing to pay for the item alone under a "combined shipping discount" scenario, those items no longer get listed. This reduces the selection of items available for purchase.

3) Some (lots?) of 99 cent/no reserve auctions will disappear, since there will be sellers who aren't going to be interested in risking that they'll have to pay people to take their stuff on top of paying eBay and PayPal for the privilege. >>

Good post. I especially agree with #3. True auctions will disappear b/c sellers won't want to take the risk that they lose $ on the coin and then compound that with "free" shipping. Either way, ebay is less of a factor for me as a buyer. Most of what I see these days is just garbage. If someone does have a nice coin, they usually have an outrageous BIN.

jdimmick · August 20, 2008 8:17AM

I have always charged fair shipping rates, many times I end up losing a buck or two here an there especially on the costlier /heavier packages to stay fair. Then only to get hammered with a 4.8 rating while everything else is 4.9 or better. I would totally be against a free shipping charge as I would lose money on the more expensive to ship packages. Buyers are not going to bid anymore for most items if free shipping is required. I would have no other way to recoup this as I start 95% of my items at.99 at let them roll, so shipping would be a give me to the buyer at same final selling price.

I have devised a little plan with this shipping policy e-bay implemented that ties rating into final value fee rebates. With over 1k a month in FVF's 15% is quite a significant savings for me. I charge a fair shipping on most items, but routinely sell some cheap stuff with free shipping which helps to balance the feedback percentage recieved from buyers to keep me above the 15 % margin. So far it has worked!

Jim

heywally · August 20, 2008 8:29AM

<< 

<< One thing for sure is that I am loath to pay a big buyers premium over at ha.com even though they do have lots of nice coins. >>

I guess you'll just have to wait for a numismatic philanthropist to buy Heritage and operate it at a loss from the goodness of their heart. >>

Okay; well, I do have my request in to go to a 'kinder and gentler' planet next time around so maybe that will work. I guess it's hard for me to believe that once heritage had all of their stuff set up that their personnel costs justify such high premiums but I haven't seen their books.

librtyhead · August 20, 2008 8:40AM

If a person wants to charge handling, that is fine, but it really sends a better message to give the customer no handling charges. It tends to give them a sense of power knowing that you are working for free for them. Actual shipping charges are and should be expected for all mail transactions, and not forced apon sellers. .........Another nail in the collective coffin for E-Bay.

braddick · August 20, 2008 8:55AM

Free shipping works.

I've been offering it for about two months now- free USPS Priority plus insurance.
Collectors like their coins to arrive in a box. Not having to purchase them saves a bit over padded envelopes or other forms of small boxes. Not much mind you, but a little.

eBay places items listed with free shipping in their search engines higher than not (or, so it seems when I am looking for coins). Other than cheap coins selling at under $40. or so the bids are driven up to a comfortable spot that covers the shipping, and this is on .99c auctions with no reserve (about the only ones I run really).

I begrudgingly offered it and am now mildly surprised it works well.

kieferscoins · August 20, 2008 11:03AM

<< I hope eBay management holds its collective breath while waiting for me to offer free shipping.

Russ, NCNE >>

Amen to that. 50+ auctions a week does not add up to good business sense if I gotta pay shipping along with confirmation/insurance so I am protected as well when they say it does not arirve.

Cameron Kiefer

CarlWohlforth · August 20, 2008 11:11AM

<<<>

Amen to that. 50+ auctions a week does not add up to good business sense if I gotta pay shipping along with confirmation/insurance so I am protected as well when they say it does not arirve.>>

I am in total agreement with Russ and Cameron.

I have lowered my shipping charges and am getting better feedback. I won't go lower unless my clients ask me to. I imagine with eBay's new push to compete with Amazon I will start listing more fixed price items and fewer auctions. The fixed prices will be "free" shipping but will have shipping charges and eBay fees factored into the BIN price.

seemyauction · August 20, 2008 12:00PM

<< I hope eBay management holds its collective breath while waiting for me to offer free shipping.

Russ, NCNE >>

I'm sure they will Russ.......

pheh · August 20, 2008 12:05PM

Allow me to set shipping cost in tiers of dollars spent and I'm okay with it, otherwise... Get bent.

Spend under $50 - pay for shipping and insurance if desired.
Spend $50 to $250 - pay for shipping and I'll pick up insurance.
Spend over $250 and I'll pick up shipping and cover insurance.
Spend over $1,000 and I'll ship it overnight/insured for free.

jfoot13 · August 20, 2008 12:34PM

When I drive to the PO and they give me a padded envelope to stuff the coin and invoice in, look at me and smile saying "It's all free for you" I'll be more than happy to pass the savings on...

storm888 · August 20, 2008 12:40PM

<< Allow me to set shipping cost in tiers of dollars spent and I'm okay with it, otherwise... Get bent.

Spend under $50 - pay for shipping and insurance if desired.
Spend $50 to $250 - pay for shipping and I'll pick up insurance.
Spend over $250 and I'll pick up shipping and cover insurance.
Spend over $1,000 and I'll ship it overnight/insured for free. >>

////////////////////////////////

Buyers who pay with PayPal do not need any extra insurance.

Insurance is to protect the seller, NOT the buyer.

//////////////////////////////////////

I have used "Free S/H" for a long time. It hurts the stars.
Ignorant buyers think "free" means NA, so they leave a 3 or a 1.

Coinlearner · August 20, 2008 12:45PM

...And they can not require it, unless THEY wish to pick up the tab

.....Sometimes I offer free ship but it is my choice. Did get the e-mail...it also said they are removing checks, of any kind, as a payment option, begining in the fall....Let me guess...It is good for the bottom line(Not safety issues they are touting.

YaHa · August 20, 2008 12:46PM

<< I've always offered free shipping/insurance/registration fees
on all of my ebay sales (and sales of my website, etc.) as a
way to 'stand out' a bit from the crowd.

I do charge for shipments outside the U.S.

One of my pet peeves is excessive postage and/or insurance fees
that some Ebay sellers charge you. >>

You better offer free shipping Mr Fred, If I pay over $20,000 per ocin for you rare errors I wouldn't expect less from you.

Broadstruck · August 20, 2008 1:47PM

<< 

<< I've always offered free shipping/insurance/registration fees
on all of my ebay sales (and sales of my website, etc.) as a
way to 'stand out' a bit from the crowd.

I do charge for shipments outside the U.S.

One of my pet peeves is excessive postage and/or insurance fees
that some Ebay sellers charge you. >>

You better offer free shipping Mr Fred, If I pay over $20,000 per ocin for you rare errors I wouldn't expect less from you.

>>

I won a $6 Video of FredWeinberg on EBay it had free shipping close to $4 postage... so it's not just on $20K error sales.

Bochiman · August 20, 2008 1:52PM

<< When I drive to the PO and they give me a padded envelope to stuff the coin and invoice in, look at me and smile saying "It's all free for you" I'll be more than happy to pass the savings on... >>

Just whip out your ebay card (you are a card carrying ebay seller, right?

) and I am sure it would be free for you

For me, if I buy something for $100 and sell it for $1000+, I am happy to pay for shipping/insurance for the buyer. If it is just me selling dupes or making $5-10 to get rid of something I don't want anymore...they can get bent on the "free shipping" concept. I think I "made" almost $0.50 on a package today, but only because I had a small box around rather than having to go buy one like I thought I would. If I did "free", I would have been out almost $5 on the s/i (I don't charge for handling...nor for the ink my printer uses

)

pheh · August 20, 2008 1:54PM

<< ////////////////////////////////

Buyers who pay with PayPal do not need any extra insurance.

Insurance is to protect the seller, NOT the buyer.

//////////////////////////////////////

I have used "Free S/H" for a long time. It hurts the stars.
Ignorant buyers think "free" means NA, so they leave a 3 or a 1. >>

I know it is for the seller - it has always been for the seller (well before ebay it was for the seller)....

However, in my experience - if I don't offer insurance - ebay clients complain. Regardless of whether or not I'm willing to eat the risk.

dac076 · August 20, 2008 3:01PM

Are you prepared to do free shipping on your eBay coin sales?

Short answer - no, long answer - hell no. Why would I give away for free a service that costs me money? Ebay is confusing my business with my charitable giving.

pheh · August 20, 2008 4:10PM

<< Are you prepared to do free shipping on your eBay coin sales?

Short answer - no, long answer - hell no. Why would I give away for free a service that costs me money? Ebay is confusing my business with my charitable giving. >>

Ebay knows they have currently have a captive audience for the short to mid-term in their current crop of sellers and can therefore use policy to push those "employees" into taking a loss in order for them to regain footing with other mega-online retailers (*wave toward Amazon*). Make no mistake, these policy changes are a directed at Amazon and other mega-online retailers. They can and are doing it because they take no direct losses from the policy changes and any indirect losses they would take due to seller (eBay-retailer-agent) attrition are stemmed by their being no current viable competitor.

As much as sellers and buyers like to moan about eBay - the reality is that, in the auction world, both buyers and sellers have been making out like bandits when compared with fees in other auction house models. 15-20% buyers fees? Consignment fees? Regardless, it appears as though eBay couldn't make the model work and have decided that competing with Widget-retailers makes a lot more financial sense for them.

While I don't think the eBay as we know it is in it's death throws quite yet, it really can't last forever. eBay as a brand must direct some influence over the products sold and service given through its brand name and it must remain competitive in online retailing. So, my guess is that they will try to retrofit the widget retailing model into their current model - fine tune it as best they can - and... fail... or pass. who knows.

Personally I don't think eBay can support both the "buy.com" or widget model of online sales as well as the classic classifieds/specialty auction model. The two shopping experiences simply do not mix.

This is probably one of the most telling recent quotes out of eBay from their 2008 Q2 earnings call:

"Brian Fenske (Lehman Brothers): Can you comment a little bit more about the deal you are doing with buy.com and how the economics work there?

John J. Donahoe: The buy.com relationship is one that really symbolizes what we want to do going forward, which is really incent and reward those sellers to provide low prices to buyers and great service, and buy.com is in the process of doing that.

The movement to incent and reward great prices and great service to buyers is not limited to larger sellers. In fact, we have many small sellers who are achieving very high DSRs and are providing great prices and great service to our buyers."

They aren't there yet, but they certainly seem to want to get out of the auction business.

rec78 · August 20, 2008 4:36PM

Ebay promotes free shipping because it means more revenue for them. It is an effort to boost revenues - just like the requirement for electronic payments-.
Ebay knows that the bidders will figure the shipping costs into their bids.

Example---A bidder bids $20 on an item that has a $5.00 shipping charge--ebay gets a percentage of the $20.00 but nothing on the $5.00 shipping fee.

With free shipping the bidder now bids $25.00 Ebay gets a percentage of the $25.00. Free shipping costs the seller more. Nice trick ebay...
Buyer still pays $25.00 but ebay gets MORE .

commoncents123 · August 20, 2008 6:07PM

Generally speaking, the larger an organization becomes, the more ignorant they become. If ebay was smart, they would give sellers an automatic 5 for each auction sold w/ free shipping...

CertifiedGoldCoins · August 20, 2008 6:20PM

I did "free" shipping for years (built into the BIN price, of course) until eBay's policies made it uneconomical. Since everything I sold was expensive, Registered Mail was necessary, but it was a lot less expensive back then. I'm not sure I'd ever sell much on eBay again, but if I did, I'd only go for free shipping if forced to do so.

Boom · August 20, 2008 8:47PM

No one likes to be TOLD what to do, especially with regards to their own wares.

It defies the Spirit of America's forefathers, traced back to The Boston Tea Party!

If we are going to use their venue we MUST abide by their ways - or STOP using said venue.

It's just that simple.

ebaytrader · August 20, 2008 9:25PM

I have offered free shipping since June.
My shipping cost DSR for the last 30 days you ask? 4.6

Boom · August 20, 2008 9:57PM

<>

Just goes to show you, huh?

Some people are like totally clueless and never satisfied.

FREE SHIPPING & 4.6? Something is definitely amiss here!

Coinlearner · August 20, 2008 10:34PM

Now I feel better.. Had free shipping on a couple of lots and "revised", to reflect alittle less an actual cost. May REVISE my future selling options as well

Casman · August 21, 2008 12:09AM

Free shipping is just silly, I charge actual shipping and it's almost $15 for every item I ship and I'm not gonna eat that cost, my dsr for shipping is 4.9, the rest 5's. Even with this double power seller discount it ain't worth it.

Are you prepared to do free shipping on your eBay coin sales?

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