New Purchase - 1891 Proof Quarter and 1891-S MS Quarter (large pics)

illini420 · July 24, 2008 1:48PM

Here's a pair of 1891 Quarters that I picked up recently. Got them raw, but wasn't too worried about that since I felt that I paid a reasonable price for them to where I knew I would remain happy with them in the event any problems with them were latered revealed/confirmed to me. I just loved they way they looked in hand as they both have big time eye appeal. But did I pay in some more numismatic tuition on these???

The first is a 1891 Proof (I'm pretty sure this one is a real proof

) with some awesome blue/sea-green toning on the obverse. But as you can see in the last pic which is taken almost straight above the coin I bought it assuming it had been cleaned given all the streaking (I know before buying raw I should know the difference between die polish lines/cleaning, but I really don't, didn't care so much with this one cause I wanted it!!!!).

The second is the first coin's sister from San Francisco, a 1891-S that has some cool toning on the obverse. Might send this one in for grading someday, but probably not, it's going to be mine for awhile.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · July 24, 2008 1:53PM

Neat coins!

AUandAG · July 24, 2008 2:52PM

I like em!

bob

jhdfla · July 24, 2008 5:38PM

If the lines are raised on the fields on the proof then it's die polishing. I do not think they are die polish lines. The '91-s has rub on the thigh. This is my observation of the pics, which of course is only good as far as pics go... the coin would have to be viewed in hand to make an accurate call.

John

STONE · July 24, 2008 9:36PM

Nice looking NewP's Illini

My only recourse is the 1891-S. I agree with John that it does look like there is rub, but I see it on the eagle's feathers more than the knees of Miss Liberty.
Again, just an observation from the images.

illini420 · July 25, 2008 12:56AM

I'm pretty sure the proof has been cleaned too. You can't even see the lines on it though unless it's under intense light and looking very close, the toning draws the eye much more. It took me quite awhile to get the photo that would show the lines in the field.

On the 1891-S, I only paid AU money for it cause I thought there may have been a little rub on the eagle feathers as well and even maybe a little on the back of the arrow. Hard for me to tell about the thigh on the obverse given the toning, so not sure about that.

relicsncoins · July 25, 2008 1:13AM

Your photos do illustrate how easy it is to hide hairlines on a proof by changing the angle of the photo. I should give people pause when buying a proof on the Bay from a seller that does not have a decent return policy.

JJ

rhedden · July 25, 2008 1:59AM

Most raw Seated proofs have hairlines from wiping, like your 1891. It will probably grade PR61 or PR62 if you send it in (I wouldn't). If you paid something between PR60 and PR63 money for it, you got a coin with nice toning and eye appeal for the right price. If you bought it as a Gem proof on ebay, you paid tuition, and lots of it. I do love the obverse color on this one! The 1891-S may be a "slider" AU58 (rub on knee), but it also has really nice eye appeal. Again, if you bought it as an MS63 or MS64, you paid tuition. The toning suggests that it was dipped to look unc. at one time, and retoned naturally afterwards. I actually like both of these coins and wouldn't mind owning them myself, assuming they were offered at fair prices.

Prethen · July 25, 2008 2:09AM

If those aren't die polish lines, I wouldn't grade it higher than PF60. That's the type of coin that if cleaned that harshly might even bodybag...hence, perhaps why it's not in a slab already. I agree that it does have a pretty look when tilted just right, though.

illini420 · July 25, 2008 11:26AM

Thanks for the comments. Mostly just been having fun with my new camera and figured some might like to see the toning on these. I also like having the last year of issue for some reason

Don't have it exactly in front me me right now but I think I paid about $425 for the proof and about $250 for the business strike. So I really don't think I stole them by any means. But I guess I didn't get completely schooled either...

jdimmick · July 25, 2008 12:58PM

Now all you need is to add the 1891-o Branch Mint proof in the upcoming Heritage sale!!!!!

illini420 · July 25, 2008 2:00PM

<< <i>Now all you need is to add the 1891-o Branch Mint proof in the upcoming Heritage sale!!!!! >>

I didn't even know there was an 1891-o branch mint proof!! Thanks for the info, interesting coin but just a little out of my price range

Here's the link to the Heritage 1891-o to make it easier for others LINK

roadrunner · July 25, 2008 10:54PM

I would agree that the hairlines on the proof (notice that they curve) would probably place it in the 61-62 category. Interesting how wonderful that looks in the first 2 photos compared to the third.

The reverse of the 1891-s appears to show a cleaning from the past. Hence some of the highpoints have that sort of "polished" look to them. A cleaned AU-58ish coin might get knocked down an additional amount in value because of that. That 2-tone look to the obv is probably also due to an older cleaning.

Decades ago it was critical it seemed as to whether a minute amount of high point friction existed on a coin (ie AU vs UNC). But with the blurring of the AU-UNC grades over the past 15 years, it really makes little to no difference in pricing on 18-19th century coins graded AU58 to MS63. That is the same grade/value range adjusted for eye appeal and overall blast. Friction seems to have dropped by the way side altogether as many would prefer an obviously rubbed coin with nice eye appeal in a 63 holder to a techincally no-rub coin with average eye appeal in a 61-62 holder. Capped bust halves demonstrate this point very clearly. And I couldn't help but notice a slabbed MS64 wreath cent in the FUN auctions where the EAC grade was AU50. And right next to that lot was another wreath cent slabbed as AU with an EAC grade of EF45.

For what it's worth, I pass on the rubbed 63 and look for one that has decent appeal and no rub. That's far harder.

roadrunner

291fifth · July 25, 2008 11:02PM

Sadly, I think you will find that you overpaid for both coins.

There is a reason why they were raw.

Don't buy problem coins.

New Purchase - 1891 Proof Quarter and 1891-S MS Quarter (large pics)

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