Platinum Proofs for sale at the Mint

AbesNeighbor · July 24, 2008 1:54AM

The Mint has the Proof Plats for sale, again, on their site. Apparently the price of platinum has made it affordable to begin making them.

They are certainly not giving them away... The prmiums are obnoxious

Goldbully · July 24, 2008 1:55AM

Who's gonna buy a 1 oz'r for $2510.00???

ttown · July 24, 2008 2:10AM

Like I said this could be a key coin with these prices. I wouldn't be sending them back because of the drop. I see these selling mainly on Ebay now and not from the mint.

Manorcourtman · July 24, 2008 2:18AM

Are these repriced or the same before they pulled 'em?

pf70collector · July 24, 2008 2:19AM

1/2 ouncer is $105 more than before and the 1/10 oz is $10 more than when they were pulled. I don't know about the other coins.

coolest · July 24, 2008 2:28AM

With the price of Pt under $1700/oz., it seem rude to ask $2500/oz.

ttown · July 24, 2008 2:32AM

Here it is almost August and now higher prices with Platinum dropping. These coins certainly look interesting at present becuase they'll never make another batch much past October due to the holidays. If Platinum stays down and they pull them again becasue they aren't selling them (not to many buyers at these prices IMO) then they could easily knock off another month before returning and waste a month at these ranges making the present batch all that are made. Stay tuned, I guess really for me it doesn't matter since I wouldn't be a seller anyway.

nycounsel · July 24, 2008 2:34AM

2008 American Eagle Platinum Proof One Ounce Coin (8T1)

Price: $2,509.95

2008 American Eagle Platinum Proof One-Half Ounce Coin (8T2)

Price: $1,279.95

2008 American Eagle Platinum Proof One-Quarter Ounce Coin (8T3)

Price: $664.95

2008 American Eagle Platinum Proof One-Tenth Ounce Coin (8T4)

Price: $279.95

2008 American Eagle Platinum Proof Four-Coin Set (8T5)

Price: $4,589.95

Just shows how bad the Mint is at pricing this stuff. I'm starting to hope they just abandon platinum altogether.

RWB · July 24, 2008 2:34AM

The US Mint is doing the same thing any private producer of metal tokens would have to do. However, their return policy is, in my opinion, much too generous.

ttown · July 24, 2008 2:38AM

At some point they'll have to go to a spot plus model or this will be the rule rather than the exception. Of couse these coming out latter in the year and yanked every few months sure make it more like the lottery than coin collecting.

nycounsel · July 24, 2008 2:41AM

I suppose I could look at it this way - buying in early May saved me $1200 in inflated premiums.

coolest · July 24, 2008 2:53AM

<< The US Mint is doing the same thing any private producer of metal tokens would have to do. However, their return policy is, in my opinion, much too generous. >>

I disagree. I think a private company would go bankrupt trying to sell all there bullion by setting a price based on the record highest price ever paid. If you sell bullion you must sell it for less when the price drops and more when it goes up. But you are right about the return policy. Bullion coins should only have a three day return period.

nycounsel · July 24, 2008 3:09AM

a private company would go bankrupt trying to sell all their bullion by setting a price based on the record highest price ever paid. 

without a doubt. The Mint is different from a private company, because there is always SOME demand for the coins it produces. Also, although it likes to make a profit, it is insulated from having to worrying about a loss.

I also agree that the Mint should get rid of the 30 day return window, though I would propose 7 days instead of 3.

coasterfan · July 24, 2008 3:35AM

With the exception of the 1 ouncer, these new prices from the Mint are lower than the prices sellers were recently getting on Ebay. I'm actually glad I got outbid several times on a 1/2 ouncer by people willing to pay mid- to high- $1300s.

RWB · July 24, 2008 4:26AM

Also, although it likes to make a profit, it is insulated from having to worrying about a loss.

This is incorrect, as one can easily see from information about the cost of producing cents and nickels. For collectors’ items, the Mint has an extra incentive to remain profitable. If you don’t, you have to go before Congress and explain why you need a supplemental appropriation. This is not a pleasant prospect.

BECOKA · July 24, 2008 4:43AM

Too rich for my blood no matter how few get produced.

This is not a series many can get into and it would seem that even the rare ones have a smaller premium because of this.

nycounsel · July 24, 2008 4:56AM

This is incorrect, as one can easily see from information about the cost of producing cents and nickels.

I didn't say that they had no regard for loss, but that they are insulated from worry -- they need not be as concerned about the profitability of a given issue as a private company would need to be. A private company would weigh the costs of design, marketing, production, housing and securing expensive inventory, etc., and assess demand, before starting the process.

It seems to me that your point about cents and nickels is a pretty good example of how the Mint IS insulated from worry about loss.

A private company would never make cents or nickels available for .01 and .05 respectively, because it wouldn't be profitable.

TheRaven · July 24, 2008 7:49AM

I need to get one of these 1/10 oz before they are gone again.....

ProofCollection · July 24, 2008 8:33AM

Does anyone have sales figures on these?

TheRaven · July 24, 2008 11:16AM

Platinum Proof Sales Figures as of 7-18-08 from N News

1 oz........... 1135
1/2 oz........ 443
1/4 oz........ 571
1/10 oz...... 1040
4 coin set... 520

Platinum W unc sales figures as of 7-18-08 from N News

1 oz........... 103
1/2 oz........ 87
1/4 oz........ 165
1/10 oz...... 320
4 coin set... 281

Raufus · July 24, 2008 1:20PM

<< With the exception of the 1 ouncer, these new prices from the Mint are lower than the prices sellers were recently getting on Ebay. >>

I think that most of these buyers were taking a calculated (turned out to be wrong) risk that the proofs would not be back and that they would thus have crazy low mintages. Now that they're back, it will be interesting to see the sales figures. I wonder what the final sales will be for the Proofs and the Uncs. I think that the proofs will be lower than the '04s and the Uncs. lower than the '06s. What do you all think??

ProofCollection · July 24, 2008 4:17PM

I think 2008 will be an abnormally small mintage. I'm trying to figure out which denoms and which products to buy... unc, burnished, or proof, and $25, $50, or $100?

tcmitssr · July 24, 2008 4:22PM

<< 1/2 ouncer is $105 more than before and the 1/10 oz is $10 more than when they were pulled. I don't know about the other coins. >>

YIPPEE!!!! I could qualify to become a flipper of modern crap now if I wanted to. Having a first strike PR70DC doesn't hurt either.

FullStrike · July 24, 2008 4:52PM

Better buy NOW or be really really sorry when the sales are over and the values are 500% over the US Mints current bargain rates. Don't try to say you weren't warned.

Of course if final sales figures end up at the production limits and then Platinum bombs down to $900.00 / oz and you totally looze yuur azz - don't be shifting blame on anything yu red heah.

what to do ?

try flippin a coin?

or say, to heJJ with Plat - I'm getting something fun - like Beer and Pizza and Wings too !

and then go get some real coins - something to make you happy

ProofCollection · July 24, 2008 4:58PM

All PM's will be 2x or 3x their current prices in the next few years so you really can't lose - you can only do worse or better.

nycounsel · July 24, 2008 6:01PM

All PM's will be 2x or 3x their current prices in the next few years so you really can't lose - you can only do worse or better.

PM's could go up from here, but it would be a big gamble to buy coins thinking that is the case.

Indeed, if you knew as a certainty that all PMs will be 2x or 3x current prices, the 2008 platinums are probably one of the worst purchases to make right now.

Why? 2 reasons.

1. the platinum coins, even low mintage ones, haven't demonstrated sufficient numismatic demand to keep prices much over melt even at $2000/oz.

2. The premium already built in to the issue price is high.

A speculatorbuying based on an expectation of bullion increase would make more money buying other coins, at melt, that don't have that premium built in to the acquisition price.

For instance, today you can buy a 2008 platinum proof set from the Mint for $4589, or a more common date platinum proof set on the secondary market for something around melt, say $3330. (1.85oz x1800).

If platinum doubles (which seems possible) or triples (seems unlikely) from current spot (1750) in the next few years, to $3500-$5,000 1.85 ounces of platinum would be worth $6500 to $9700.

So on the common platinum set, your profit is about $3200 or $6400.

If the 2008 platinum proof set is worth melt at that time, the profit is $1900 - $5200.

The 2008 platinum set would need to maintain a $1300 premium over melt at that time to put you in the same position.

Raufus · July 24, 2008 9:30PM

<< 

<< 1/2 ouncer is $105 more than before and the 1/10 oz is $10 more than when they were pulled. I don't know about the other coins. >>

YIPPEE!!!! I could qualify to become a flipper of modern crap now if I wanted to. Having a first strike PR70DC doesn't hurt either.

>>

The last one sold for nearly $3K on Ebay!!

ProofCollection · July 24, 2008 11:51PM

nycounsel,
That's whay I said you can do better or worse... As you pointed out, you could buy something different and maybe make out better. Or not. Predicting the future is difficult.

bluelobster · July 25, 2008 2:04AM

<< All PM's will be 2x or 3x their current prices in the next few years so you really can't lose - you can only do worse or better. >>

"Predicting the future is difficultt "

.......... I guess not

ProofCollection · July 25, 2008 2:09AM

<< 

<< All PM's will be 2x or 3x their current prices in the next few years so you really can't lose - you can only do worse or better. >>

"Predicting the future is difficultt "

.......... I guess not

>>

Point taken. But it's an incredible long shot to suggest that the dollar is going to get stronger, not weaker, in the years ahead given the current state of the economy and the debt hole we're in.

bluelobster · July 25, 2008 3:53AM

<< 
Point taken. But it's an incredible long shot to suggest that the dollar is going to get stronger, not weaker, in the years ahead given the current state of the economy and the debt hole we're in. >>

Maybe a longshot, maybe not.......I think we are/have been in a secular dollar down trend and I have bet against a stronger dollar in the past, but one thing I know, sentiment is a contrary indicator, not a predictive one and the more people that assume the dollar has to keep going down(which seems almost unanimous, especially on this board

) , the more a C change is likely to occur IMHO. There is no question that our huge budget deficit and weak growth coupled with low short rates, has hurt and continues to hurt the dollar, but no matter who the next President is, I think the deficit won't balloon like it has, plus the dollar trades against a basket of currencies, of which the euro compromises 57% and all the exporting companies in Europe have to battle a strong currency that WILL hinder growth and the US could increase exports because of the weak dollar. The US entered this economic slowdown before euro land and will probably start to recover sooner and if the US starts to grow at a faster rate than the Euro zone which I think is a strong possibilty within a year or so, then the dollar will strenghthen against the Euro. So to be bearish on the dollar is really akin to being bullish on the euro, and I'm not sure the fundamentals would allow the euro just to keep climbing against the dollar, because people are bearish on the US.

Getting back to Platinum Eagles.....As far as the 2008 Plats, I think they have a very good chance of becoming the new key, although if that happens it will bring the premium or whats left of it, down for the former keys, like the 2004s, imho I really think it's back to collect what you like with platinum( I collect the 1/2oz) and wait for the dust to settle, which will probably take years, not months. imho

AbesNeighbor · July 25, 2008 4:23AM

OK, after thinking about this I'm wondering if the mint has weighed the cost of pruducing Platinum Proofs (and it is high) with the collector demand that they be offered, and has decided to price them such that very few will buy them. If they do, then the mint will make a substantial profit. Am I giving the Mint too much credit here?

fishcooker · July 25, 2008 4:27AM

People playing the metals markets should not forget that in +-100 days we'll have a new sheriff in town.

AlixTCat · July 25, 2008 5:32AM

<< Platinum Proof Sales Figures as of 7-18-08 from N News

1 oz........... 1135
1/2 oz........ 443
1/4 oz........ 571
1/10 oz...... 1040
4 coin set... 520

Platinum W unc sales figures as of 7-18-08 from N News

1 oz........... 103
1/2 oz........ 87
1/4 oz........ 165
1/10 oz...... 320
4 coin set... 281 >>

Assuming one of two things... either one buys these because they are independently wealthy and they have nothing else to buy this week, OR one is buying these to flip them later to someone who is independently wealthy and they have nothing else to buy this week, Which one would likely bring the most money in a sale on down the line.

My vote is for the 1/2 oz UNC. It looks like the least of them are getting bought.

What does everyone else think? Which one for greatest profit later?

Jonathan

TheRaven · July 25, 2008 6:06AM

The 1/2 oz coin typically has the lowest number of coins sold.....

By asking about profit later, what are you considering later? 6 month? 10 years?

Weather11am · July 25, 2008 6:08AM

I think that the 1/10 and 1/4 have the most percentage potential to increase if the mintages were super low. Look at the 06-W UNC PAEs... the huge one ouncer commands almost no premium, the one half ouncer commands a little premium, and the quarter and tenth are dominating!

FullStrike · July 25, 2008 3:44PM

I want some Chinese-made APE fakes. Really like the Coins - hate the outrageous prices.

kiyote · July 26, 2008 5:54AM

I wonder how long the W Uncs will be one sale? It'd be mind boggling to wake up and see them pulled tomorrow.

jmski52 · July 26, 2008 3:00PM

OK, after thinking about this I'm wondering if the mint has weighed the cost of pruducing Platinum Proofs (and it is high) with the collector demand that they be offered, and has decided to price them such that very few will buy them. If they do, then the mint will make a substantial profit. Am I giving the Mint too much credit here?

Firstly, if the unit costs are high, selling fewer of them will *not* generate a substantial profit. In fact, they might not make it to the breakeven point. Secondly, if you give the Mint much credit, it's probably too much.

My vote is for the 1/2 oz UNC. It looks like the least of them are getting bought.

What does everyone else think? Which one for greatest profit later?

I'd stick with the denominations that you are collecting. That way, if you buy an extra one or two, you can trade or sell them later, buy one of the ones that you still might need, and probably have beaucoups money left over (assuming that 2008 is a good year).

I think that you can throw a dart blindfolded and choose any 2008 Plat - Proof or Unc - and you won't be disappointed. The volatility of platinum pricing is creating alot of downtime in the selling season. I would expect most casual potential buyers will be tempted to move on to something more available when sales keep getting interrupted.

I would expect them to sell proofs into next year, and cut off the uncs at the end of the year, like usual.

FullStrike · July 29, 2008 1:15AM

NO SALE

2008 PLATINUM EAGLE - PCGS PR69 DCAM - FIRST STRIKE

Starting bid: US $2,399.95

BUY IT NOW price: US $2,449.00

Ended: Jul-28-08 19:52:38 PDT

History: 0 bids

no one wanted it

coolest · July 29, 2008 1:18AM

Could platinum possibly drop to $1500?

drei3ree · July 29, 2008 1:27AM

<< Could platinum possibly drop to $1500? >>

There was a time when it was lower than gold...

OPA · July 29, 2008 1:28AM

<< NO SALE

2008 PLATINUM EAGLE - PCGS PR69 DCAM - FIRST STRIKE

Starting bid: US $2,399.95

BUY IT NOW price: US $2,449.00

Ended: Jul-28-08 19:52:38 PDT

History: 0 bids

no one wanted it

>>

Gee ... and such a bargain ... can't understand why

TheRaven · July 29, 2008 2:27AM

Would certainly make things interesting if platinum where to drop that far price wise.....

I don't see that happening.....

Anybody have the new sales numbers from N News?

EricSan · July 29, 2008 2:39AM

<< I wonder how long the W Uncs will be one sale? It'd be mind boggling to wake up and see them pulled tomorrow. >>

I've been wondering this same thing myself for a while now... Your guess is as good as mind, David! If they do, I'd appreciate if it happens soon. I have 3 of these to send back to the mint after inspecting them. I'd be ever more happy to sell them for $2k each on the bay!

Eric

Platinum Proofs for sale at the Mint

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