Do you think all top grading companies are on board with each other on Moderns?

YaHa · July 23, 2008 4:18PM

I have a 1999 PCGS 70 Penn statehood quarter d/cam and a ICg 70 penn quarter clad d/cam the ICG coin looks better than the PCGS just over all strike and noticed on the reed edge on the PCGS graded coin there is a little nick at a angle but overall the coin looks flawless just like my ICG coin.

So my question is, everyone blasts NGC and ICG, even Anacs sometimes about their grades, so do you think modern coins are easier to grade by all of the top companies and have equal standards.

Anyone think a reed nick should bring down a perfect grade.

Sorry no pics, but was hoping for memory.

dorkkarl · July 23, 2008 10:47PM

any coin in a "70" holder is overgraded. period. no ifs ands or buts

K S

RedTiger · July 24, 2008 12:08AM

I don't blast any of the companies. Each makes a business decision as to their standard for each grade, including ultramodern 70s. Those coins are 70s by their standards. Each company is free to set their own standard, as is each collector. For some, never shall the ends meet, but a disagreement about opinion on grade, or a business decision is no reason for "blasting." That said, a collector should always explore the typical retail and wholesale prices that coins trade at before buying.

When doing that, and looking at the pops, there is no arguing with the data. ICG has higher percentage of 70s than NGC, which has a higher percentage than PCGS. Prices reflect that reality. ICG 70s aren't worth squat, especially wholesale, NGCs a modest premium, and PCGS a high premium, though there are a few exceptions. Even though ICG doesn't publish pops, a person can observe the number of 70s offered on different venues, and the prices they have settled at. When ICG first launched some novices bought up their 70s at high prices and got burned badly when the percentage of 70s turned out to be high.

Don't believe me? A person can offer ICG 70s to some of the modern specialist dealers on the board and see what their bid is. Do the same with other holders. It may not be fair, but unless a person crosses the coin, it is going to fetch ICG money (not much). Dealers know the market and what they can sell those coins for. Again, best to research prices before buying, wholesale, retail and auction prices.

Gemineye · July 24, 2008 12:20AM

<< Do you think all top grading companies are on board with each other on Moderns? >>

I have given up purchasing coins from one specific TPG.I had purcased from time to time some coins and have decided that their standards are not what I want.All is not equal in the modern world.....time does tell it's tale....!!!

ricko · July 24, 2008 12:37AM

True...All TPG's are not the same... and, since the grading of coins is subjective, should not be expected to be the same. That being said, there is also subjectivity among dealers/collectors about TPG's.... and of course, this is passed on through forums and conversation.... The truth is, I can, and have, found fault with PCGS MS/PR70's... and all the others as well. Most collectors 'drink the kool-aid' when it comes to these things... TPG's, toning etc... neophytes grab on to the 'words of wisdom' they hear from perceived guru's and perpetuate it with authority. Most do not take the time to thoroughly educate themselves by buying books, attending seminars, studying standards etc... This is where the 'softness' comes into the hobby.... and the 'lessons learned' of the future when true knowledge is acquired. Cheers, RickO

Mar327 · July 24, 2008 2:33AM

That's why I look at the coin, not the plastic. I've seen some real bungles in all of them and some undergraded ones, too.

By the way Yaha....

notwilight · July 24, 2008 2:41AM

<< any coin in a "70" holder is overgraded. period. no ifs ands or buts K S >>

Karl,
I like your posts but you just flat don't understand the grading criteria for a 70.

As for the top grading company comparison: Moderns are where there is the MOST difference between companies. NGC 70s are generally PCGS 69s. I have a lot of large cents in NGC holders but would never buy an NGC modern sight unseen. They grade too loose. Now if you can grade moderns, can look at the coin, you can find some bargains in NGC holders, especially if you can cherrypick a large lot. NGC has the bulk of the ASE market because PCGS quit grading 70s a while back and they seem to do a little better here. That may be an exception.

--Jerry

IrishMike · July 24, 2008 4:32AM

This entire argument is silly unless you overpay for a 70. The fact is there is NO perfect coin. The bulk of all TPG's income comes from grading moderns and to keep earning and churning they need to grade some 70's, that's the market we are in. If you want to delude yourself into the 70 number go ahead. NGC obviously has taken the the market lead and thereby reduced the cost to the end buyer. It's the predominant reason they grade more coins. As been shown by a dealer here a kid can grade a coin 70 given enough practice. The grade 70 is just a way to hook a collector who believes in the dream world of perfection. So you pay more on average in a P holder which means you have a greater hope that its value maintains. Or if you have to collect 70's you can pay less in an N holder and collect more coins for less money. In the end any perceived difference is canceled out by the $$ investment. My guess is that neither of the two would grade more than a hanful 70's and then reluctantly if it weren't for dealer demand to satisfy their clients or their wallets.

Edited to add, none of us understand things as well as you Jerry. Ever wonder why that is?

nicetoning42107 · July 24, 2008 8:00AM

<< any coin in a "70" holder is overgraded. period. no ifs ands or buts

K S >>

In this case, Karl, I actually agree with you!

Aegis3 · July 24, 2008 8:27AM

<< 

<< any coin in a "70" holder is overgraded. period. no ifs ands or buts K S >>

Karl,
I like your posts but you just flat don't understand the grading criteria for a 70.

As for the top grading company comparison: Moderns are where there is the MOST difference between companies. NGC 70s are generally PCGS 69s. I have a lot of large cents in NGC holders but would never buy an NGC modern sight unseen. They grade too loose. Now if you can grade moderns, can look at the coin, you can find some bargains in NGC holders, especially if you can cherrypick a large lot. NGC has the bulk of the ASE market because PCGS quit grading 70s a while back and they seem to do a little better here. That may be an exception.

--Jerry >>

Ok, how's this? The corporate redefinition of "70" is the biggest "first strike" of the numerical grading world. ("First strike" is being used in place of another f-word.) Karl is now once again saying the truth.

BECOKA · July 24, 2008 8:32AM

Most dealers will not pay any premium for an ICG 70.

Most NGC 70's don't cross to PCGS and vice versa.

As far as being on the same page they are close but no one will admit it.

Do you think all top grading companies are on board with each other on Moderns?

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