<< <i>Why do collectors break coins out of slabs to keep raw? >>
Coins are more enjoyable raw. The details are more clear, the surfaces and toning are not distorted by plastic. The edge lettering, reeding, etc is visible. They are easier to photograph.
About half of my collection is raw, I would not be satisfied if they were all in slabs. I keep some of the more expensive coins in slabs for two reasons - protection from damage, I get nervous handling a raw 10K coin, having dropped too many. The other reason is liquidity. Yes, with the right venues you can get as much with a raw coin, but they are far easier and faster to sell in a slab - for myself or my heirs.
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
I started to draft a reply, and then saw that MrHalfDime already wrote it for me, substitute quarters 1805-1828 for half dimes
I cannot answer your question for the masses, but I can answer it for myself. Of all the half dimes that I have ever purchased, I would estimate that at least one third (perhaps more) were in slabs when I purchased them; none are now. I crack out all of my coins and mount them in my own holders. I do this for several reasons. For the series I collect (United States half dimes from 1794-1873), I want to be able to weigh a coin and perhaps check its specific gravity to determine authenticity. Also, I like to measure the diameter of each coin for some research I am doing on different collars. Also, I check the reeding on most Liberty Seated half dimes, both as a check on authenticity, and also for some additional research on reeding guages used at the various mints. In addition, I need to be able to photograph my coins, free of the distortion, reflection and milky scratched surfaces seen on most slabs. None of this would be possible if the coins were in slabs. The holders that I place my coins in are significantly smaller than any slab, making the overall size of my reference collection suitable for storage in a safe deposit box; they would not fit in a SDB if still in slabs. My final reason for cracking out all of my coins is that I sometimes disagree with the grade assigned by the TPG, and I almost ALWAYS disagree with any attribution done by any TPG. For me, raw coins are the only way to collect, study, store and display coins.
<< <i>The grading services must really love you guys. Eventually you or your heirs will sell your coins and you will have to pay to get them reslabbed if you ever hope to get the highest prices for your coins. >>
gee, i have a idea: enjoy your coins for yourself, & leave your heirs something other then coins to inherit.
it's just plain stupid to have your heirs depend on your coin collection as their financial security
<< <i>That might be a good suggestion, maybe if they added a weighing/measuring service for an additional $5 fee or something.
They can't get the attribution right most of the time so I don't know how well I could trust this information either, IMHO.
QN >>
Good point. I don't think I'd automatically trust a TPG weight and measurement. Besides, the TPG's have no desire to do these things anyway. They love the fact that coins get cracked. It brings them repeat busine$$.
It has been shown that the same coins submitted many times to the same TPG come back in different grades, or, if fate turns against the submitter, in bodybags. Even if the inconsistency didn't necessarily bring about the end of third-party grading from the start, logic would suggest that the assigned grades wouldn't matter so much, and that the emphasis would be on authentication. Instead, we have a counterintuitive result: one-point differences in grade bring about huge disparities in price. The hobby is engaged in some sort of collective, willing suspension of disbelief. Edited to add: Collectors who dare crack coins brought into their collection are generally unwilling to foresake reason despite the risk of financial loss or the prospect of financial gain.
Bottom line...I really don't give a crap how much my kids receive for my collection after I'm through with it. If they don't get as much for them raw as they would if I had left them slabbed then so be it. I don't collect for their financial gain. I collect for MY enjoyment--and I enjoy coins not plastic.
Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
It largely depends on the coin for me. I have coins that I purchased in slabs and left there (1914-D Lincoln) and others that I purchased raw and intend to slab (1909-S VDB). I've cracked out a fair number as well... mostly for my Type set in a Dansco 7070 album, but also for my Morgan Dollar date set and IHC collections. By far, the most pieces I've cracked have been early coppers in the VF to AU range. I can maybe see keeping a MS piece slabbed, but for the stuff I collect, it just doesn't make sense to me.
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
<< <i>I understand the touchy feely thing but I don't feel comfortable buying. >>
Why don't you feel comfortable?
To wit, if you aren't comfortable in your grading skills, I would respectfully suggest you probably shouldn't be buying in the first place....Mike >>
Sorry, but that is a little naive. There are some very good coin doctors out there. Some things are done to coins that get by dealers, experts, TPG's, and collectors.
<< <i>Bottom line...I really don't give a crap how much my kids receive for my collection after I'm through with it. If they don't get as much for them raw as they would if I had left them slabbed then so be it. I don't collect for their financial gain. I collect for MY enjoyment--and I enjoy coins not plastic. >>
bingo
what i do'nt understand is why the he11 so many people blame their "heirs" for the need to own pla$tic. that's bu11s**t. own up to the fact that you do'nt wanna take the time to learn about coins, & that's why you rely on the pla$tic. take responsibilty for your actions!
own up to the fact that you do'nt wanna take the time to learn about coins, & that's why you rely on the pla$tic. take responsibilty for your actions!
I do not want to take the time to learn all of the things that I need to in order to not be taken, and that's why I rely, in part, on the plastic. I want to buy, collect, and enjoy coins now, not twenty years from now. How's that?
PS I do agree with your take on the "heirs" argument. My heirs will be taken care of by other means. They can bury the coins with me, if they want. (Should I precede FatMan in reaching The Great Bourse in the Sky™, I hope that they send FatMan my 61-D $5.)
I imagine some folks break their coins outta slabs because they're ashamed of owning third world slabs. Better to have em raw, than with the wrong plastic around them.
<< <i>Bottom line...I really don't give a crap how much my kids receive for my collection after I'm through with it. If they don't get as much for them raw as they would if I had left them slabbed then so be it. I don't collect for their financial gain. I collect for MY enjoyment--and I enjoy coins not plastic. >>
You may not give a crap, but would your kids give a crap?
I enjoy coins, not plastic, too. But I always like the plastic that comes with the coin too. It allows me and others to view the coins without my having to worry about damage.
Third-party certification is essential for assembling a quality collection today. I would be the first person to say that it is imperative to buy your coins certified. By buying your coins certified, your chances of buying a counterfeit is close to 0.0%; a grossly cleaned coin, 5%; a problem coin, 10%; and an overgraded coin, 30%. Nowadays, the coins that are not certified are either not worth slabbing, or could not make it into a holder. (I am talking about the top tier services).
There are two other categories that are possible, though. The owner either has not attempted submitting the coins or has bought them certified and has cracked them out to enjoy the coin au-naturale!
If you are collecting Indian cents in grades VF, XF, AU and up to MS64RB, and in values under $500, and would like to view your collection is a classic album-type holder or a plastic coin board, you may want to consider cracking out your coins! It is certainly not against the law!
A beautiful well-matched set with quality coins is a true joy to behold. I feel it even enhances the value to a prospective buyer because of the “freshness” of the coins. Coin buyers like myself, hardly ever see these types of sets nowadays and will pay very strong to get them.
However, my point is not to enhance the value of your set or to crack out your coins if you are planning to sell them anytime soon, in fact I would not recommend cracking out your coin if you have any thought of selling. The risk is that you may have a coin at the low end of the grade and when it is graded again it is not viewed as the same grade you bought it. The cure for this is to only crack out coins that are high end for the grade or coins that you are sure anybody would grade the same grade.
I have a few collectors assembling XF-MS64 sets that are cracking out their coins. They are careful and always ask me when they buy a coin if this would be a good coin to crack out. I analyze the risk for them and give my honest and fair-minded opinion. It would be prudent to save the tags as proof of what they were graded when you bought them.
In the future, if you do decide to sell, I would certainly buy them at the full grade they were sold at, even though they are not in the certified holder. This is because I buy the coin, not the holder. A nice coin is always a nice coin, and nice coins sell very easily.
I don’t typically deduct for the cost of re-certifying the coin when evaluating for purchase. Certification is a cost of doing business that is not put off on the seller. But if you wanted to re-certify your coins prior to selling you may do that too. You may even get a higher grade than what you bought! The important thing to remember, is that it is your collection and you should feel free to display them any way you see fit.
I like em all raw, the coin is what it is even after you break them out. My goal is to enjoy them in a unslabbed dansco format. When it come time to sell , they are what they are..............
You may not give a crap, but would your kids give a crap?
I enjoy coins, not plastic, too. But I always like the plastic that comes with the coin too. It allows me and others to view the coins without my having to worry about damage. >>
By the time my heirs get them I won't care whether or not they give a crap. I won't care if they use them in vending machines. I won't care if they melt them down into paperweights. I won't care if they sell them to some dealer at 10 cents on the dollar. I won't care if they sell them for considerably more than I have spent on them over the years. I won't care if they keep them. By then the coins will be theirs to do with as they wish.
As for damaging a $10000.00 coin--yes, I have a couple that the market claims are worth that and yes, they are now raw--through mis-handling I admit the posibility. Accidents happen. What difference does it make if that coin is suddenly only worth $7500.00? I'm never going to see that money anyway since my collection is not for sale and won't be as long as it remains my collection.
Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
what i do'nt understand is why the he11 so many people blame their "heirs" for the need to own pla$tic. that's bu11s**t.
DK - I'm sure some collectors do care enough about their heirs that the plastic matters. And I'll tell you something else. If I collected gem proof type coins (which are usually worth more when slabbed at the "terminal grade"), I'd collect them in slabs, and concern for my heirs would be a big consideration. However, in real life, the coins I collect aren't worth any more in plastic, so the coins stay raw.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
You may not give a crap, but would your kids give a crap?
I enjoy coins, not plastic, too. But I always like the plastic that comes with the coin too. It allows me and others to view the coins without my having to worry about damage. >>
By the time my heirs get them I won't care whether or not they give a crap. I won't care if they use them in vending machines. I won't care if they melt them down into paperweights. I won't care if they sell them to some dealer at 10 cents on the dollar. I won't care if they sell them for considerably more than I have spent on them over the years. I won't care if they keep them. By then the coins will be theirs to do with as they wish.
As for damaging a $10000.00 coin--yes, I have a couple that the market claims are worth that and yes, they are now raw--through mis-handling I admit the posibility. Accidents happen. What difference does it make if that coin is suddenly only worth $7500.00? I'm never going to see that money anyway since my collection is not for sale and won't be as long as it remains my collection. >>
It's hard to say. Whether or not you care makes no difference to you, but it may make some difference to your heirs.
Let's take an analogy. I inherited $X in cash and goods from my parents after they both eventually passed away. This inheritance has allowed me to enjoy pleasures that I wouldn't have enjoyed before (e.g. buying more coins). I learned the value of the goods, either through research or through what my parents had told me.
It may be that your heirs inheritance are theirs to do as they wish, but as for me, I want to make sure that I impart to my heirs at least the knowledge of anything that has significant value.
<< <i>Bottom line...I really don't give a crap how much my kids receive for my collection after I'm through with it. If they don't get as much for them raw as they would if I had left them slabbed then so be it. I don't collect for their financial gain. I collect for MY enjoyment--and I enjoy coins not plastic. >>
<< <i>what i do'nt understand is why the he11 so many people blame their "heirs" for the need to own pla$tic. that's bu11s**t.
DK - I'm sure some collectors do care enough about their heirs that the plastic matters. And I'll tell you something else. If I collected gem proof type coins (which are usually worth more when slabbed at the "terminal grade"), I'd collect them in slabs, and concern for my heirs would be a big consideration. However, in real life, the coins I collect aren't worth any more in plastic, so the coins stay raw. >>
it's pretty simple, don't buy coins for your heirs if they do not want em. buy coins for YOU. leave MONEY behind for your heirs.
& again, stop using them to excuse your pla$tic blinders
<< <i>Slabs, from TPG's, are for sellers, mainly. For protection, one can buy their own slabs... A true collector does not need a slab to enjoy his/her collection.... A true collector can grade and authenticate... Another point.. value does NOT derive from the slab - that is for inexperienced, uninformed neophytes who are incapable of grading and need a third party to give them confidence to buy. Nothing wrong there, indeed, it is a form of insurance for the entry level collector.. just stating a fact. Cheers, RickO >>
Ricko, there are a few people on the forum that command respect, and you are one of them. Your views on slabbing have been expressed many times and I respect them. BUT, if I had your coins in slabs and you had your coins not in slabs, I (my heirs)would have an easier time selling your coins. That being said, as has been expressed earlier in this thread, we should be collecting for our own enjoyment and not that of our legacy. Edited to note that you have been quoted the most in this thread.
<< <i>Why do collectors break coins out of slabs to keep raw? >>
I think the opposite is true..the majority of collectors ..keep..their coins in their slabs once their graded.I believe that there are only a reletavly few in comparison who remove and retain their coins in different holders to personally view....but for the ones that do...
Question for those that don't care about their collection after they die---Would it bother you to know that a B&M dealer may give your spouse or children about 5% of what your raw coins are worth?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Previous purchases of coins can enable a person to improve their collection. In the past three years, I have traded and sold a draped bust dime collection for an early gold collection, 1807-1812 $5's, now complete. The first transaction was a cashless trade for 1808 and 1810 $5's, with slabbed draped bust dimes. If they were raw, no way would the trade have taken place (the dealer only sells slabbed coins). With the dimes that were raw, I received much less. If I had cracked all of them, my early gold collection would not be complete, it would have been one step forward an two steps back.
Liquidity is important to a collector who frequently upgrades to build a better collection, even for "true" collectors. For collectors who never sell or upgrade, liquidity does not matter. I get the best of both worlds by having raw and slabbed coins. I intend to pass some of my collection to my children, and a complete early gold collection will bring big smiles to them
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
<< <i>Question for those that don't care about their collection after they die---Would it bother you to know that a B&M dealer may give your spouse or children about 5% of what your raw coins are worth? >>
No. It wouldn't bother me if that same dealer offered melt. By definition whatever my heirs (or anyone else's for that matter) is willing to accept is what the coins are worth TO THEM. And their valuation of the collection is all that matters.
Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
<< <i>Question for those that don't care about their collection after they die---Would it bother you to know that a B&M dealer may give your spouse or children about 5% of what your raw coins are worth? >>
not at all. i have literally told my wife & kids they can spend all may coins if they want after i die. when i'm dust, trust me, i won't give a dam.
they are gonna get plenty enough $$$ after i'm outta here
Liquidity is important to a collector who frequently upgrades to build a better collection, even for "true" collectors.
I am glad that you brought this up, Bill. Over the past several years my focus has shifted multiple times. Having certified coins made them much easier to sell and trade for coins that match my current interests.
Why do collectors break coins out of slabs to keep raw?
I don't know any personally who do that. Most of them send coins to ICG, ANACS and NGC in order to get the maximum benefits of the plastic, i.e. Attribution, Encapsulation, Grade assignment and "labeling" for identifying purposes. Then again, I don't know a whole lot of collectors.
Slabs have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with liqidity. There is not a single slabbed coin in the world that would not sell just as easily if raw. It might--in fact, I even accept the word "will"--sell for less, but it will sell.
Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
<< <i>Slabs have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with liquidity. There is not a single slabbed coin in the world that would not sell just as easily if raw. It might--in fact, I even accept the word "will"--sell for less, but it will sell. >>
I disagree with this as a generalization. If I cracked out a PCGS MS-62 Dahlonega $5 and carried it around the bourse to dealers or mailed it around, I would get comments/questions like:
"Why isn't this slabbed?"
"There must be something wrong with it."
"I will give you choice AU money for it, and you will be lucky to get it."
"I do not buy better date raw gold."
"Has this been cleaned/doctored/AT'ed/puttied/(insert your own)?"
"All rare date gold that has not been slabbed has a problem."
There is not a snowball's chance in Hades that I would get anything close to MS-62 money for it, and frankly, I probably would get very few offers. Most would be afraid of it.
<< <i>Question for those that don't care about their collection after they die---Would it bother you to know that a B&M dealer may give your spouse or children about 5% of what your raw coins are worth? >>
No. It wouldn't bother me if that same dealer offered melt. By definition whatever my heirs (or anyone else's for that matter) is willing to accept is what the coins are worth TO THEM. And their valuation of the collection is all that matters. >>
But coins can have significant value, and it would be good to impart such knowledge of value to the appropriate persons when the time comes.
<< <i>Slabs have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with liquidity. There is not a single slabbed coin in the world that would not sell just as easily if raw. It might--in fact, I even accept the word "will"--sell for less, but it will sell. >>
I disagree with this as a generalization. If I cracked out a PCGS MS-62 Dahlonega $5 and carried it around the bourse to dealers or mailed it around, I would get comments/questions like:
"Why isn't this slabbed?"
"There must be something wrong with it."
"I will give you choice AU money for it, and you will be lucky to get it."
"I do not buy better date raw gold."
"Has this been cleaned/doctored/AT'ed/puttied/(insert your own)?"
"All rare date gold that has not been slabbed has a problem."
There is not a snowball's chance in Hades that I would get anything close to MS-62 money for it, and frankly, I probably would get very few offers. Most would be afraid of it. >>
This is the reason why I say most collectors are not educated enough and that using plastic has become a crutch, and the dealers are using it to their advantage as well as being uneducated and using it as a crutch themselves...
QN
Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!
<< <i>Slabs have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with liqidity. There is not a single slabbed coin in the world that would not sell just as easily if raw. It might--in fact, I even accept the word "will"--sell for less, but it will sell. >>
Try selling a raw MS65 16-D dime or a raw MS67 09-SVDB cent on eBay and see how well you do.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Slabs have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with liqidity. There is not a single slabbed coin in the world that would not sell just as easily if raw. It might--in fact, I even accept the word "will"--sell for less, but it will sell. >>
Try selling a raw MS65 16-D dime or a raw MS67 09-SVDB cent on eBay and see how well you do. >>
measuring a items liquidity by "how it would do on ebay" is ridiculous & you know it.
that's like figuring out the value of your house by trying to sell it at the local flea market
<< <i>Slabs have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with liqidity. There is not a single slabbed coin in the world that would not sell just as easily if raw. It might--in fact, I even accept the word "will"--sell for less, but it will sell. >>
Try selling a raw MS65 16-D dime or a raw MS67 09-SVDB cent on eBay and see how well you do. >>
measuring a items liquidity by "how it would do on ebay" is ridiculous & you know it.
that's like figuring out the value of your house by trying to sell it at the local flea market
K S >>
What a terrible analogy. No one sells houses at a flea market yet thousands of coins are bought and sold on eBay every month. My point was that certain coins are much less liquid when they are raw rather than slabbed. I used high grade key date coins as an example. Another example would be coins that are very heavily counterfeited. Is a raw $3 gold coin just as liquid as a slabbed $3 gold coin? Of course not!!!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Comments
<< <i>Why do collectors break coins out of slabs to keep raw? >>
Coins are more enjoyable raw. The details are more clear, the surfaces and toning are not distorted by plastic. The edge lettering, reeding, etc is visible. They are easier to photograph.
About half of my collection is raw, I would not be satisfied if they were all in slabs. I keep some of the more expensive coins in slabs for two reasons - protection from damage, I get nervous handling a raw 10K coin, having dropped too many. The other reason is liquidity. Yes, with the right venues you can get as much with a raw coin, but they are far easier and faster to sell in a slab - for myself or my heirs.
<< <i>I just get the Chris McCawley and Bob Grellman catalog of the Bill Eckberg collection of half cents.
The coins are graded and attributed but they are all raw and being offered for sale at fixed prices.
Many were broken out of slabs.
I understand the touchy feely thing but I don't feel comfortable buying. >>
if a coin is stuck in a stupid $lab, there's probably a reason
K S
I cannot answer your question for the masses, but I can answer it for myself. Of all the half dimes that I have ever purchased, I would estimate that at least one third (perhaps more) were in slabs when I purchased them; none are now. I crack out all of my coins and mount them in my own holders. I do this for several reasons. For the series I collect (United States half dimes from 1794-1873), I want to be able to weigh a coin and perhaps check its specific gravity to determine authenticity. Also, I like to measure the diameter of each coin for some research I am doing on different collars. Also, I check the reeding on most Liberty Seated half dimes, both as a check on authenticity, and also for some additional research on reeding guages used at the various mints. In addition, I need to be able to photograph my coins, free of the distortion, reflection and milky scratched surfaces seen on most slabs. None of this would be possible if the coins were in slabs. The holders that I place my coins in are significantly smaller than any slab, making the overall size of my reference collection suitable for storage in a safe deposit box; they would not fit in a SDB if still in slabs. My final reason for cracking out all of my coins is that I sometimes disagree with the grade assigned by the TPG, and I almost ALWAYS disagree with any attribution done by any TPG. For me, raw coins are the only way to collect, study, store and display coins.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>The grading services must really love you guys. Eventually you or your heirs will sell your coins and you will have to pay to get them reslabbed if you ever hope to get the highest prices for your coins. >>
gee, i have a idea: enjoy your coins for yourself, & leave your heirs something other then coins to inherit.
it's just plain stupid to have your heirs depend on your coin collection as their financial security
K S
<< <i>I just get the Chris McCawley and Bob Grellman catalog of the Bill Eckberg collection of half cents.
The coins are graded and attributed but they are all raw and being offered for sale at fixed prices.
Many were broken out of slabs.
I understand the touchy feely thing but I don't feel comfortable buying. >>
I'm going to ask a different question.
Why don't collectors just buy the coins raw?
I do think that if PCGS would perfect the edge view slab and use it on all older coins that there would be a lot less coins broken out of slabs.
<< <i>MrHalfDeme and Bailey said it well.
I do think that if PCGS would perfect the edge view slab and use it on all older coins that there would be a lot less coins broken out of slabs. >>
If they weighed the coins and measured the diameter and recorded that info on the label as well then I'd probably crack out a lot fewer coins.
Why don't collectors just buy the coins raw?
Because you guys keep having them slabbed!!!
QN
Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!
<< <i>
<< <i>MrHalfDeme and Bailey said it well.
I do think that if PCGS would perfect the edge view slab and use it on all older coins that there would be a lot less coins broken out of slabs. >>
If they weighed the coins and measured the diameter and recorded that info on the label as well then I'd probably crack out a lot fewer coins. >>
That might be a good suggestion, maybe if they added a weighing/measuring service for an additional $5 fee or something.
They can't get the attribution right most of the time so I don't know how well I could trust this information either, IMHO.
QN
Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!
<< <i>That might be a good suggestion, maybe if they added a weighing/measuring service for an additional $5 fee or something.
They can't get the attribution right most of the time so I don't know how well I could trust this information either, IMHO.
QN >>
Good point. I don't think I'd automatically trust a TPG weight and measurement. Besides, the TPG's have no desire to do these things anyway. They love the fact that coins get cracked. It brings them repeat busine$$.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
<< <i>
<< <i>I understand the touchy feely thing but I don't feel comfortable buying. >>
Why don't you feel comfortable?
To wit, if you aren't comfortable in your grading skills, I would respectfully suggest you probably shouldn't be buying in the first place....Mike >>
Sorry, but that is a little naive. There are some very good coin doctors out there. Some things are done to coins that get by dealers, experts, TPG's, and collectors.
<< <i>Bottom line...I really don't give a crap how much my kids receive for my collection after I'm through with it. If they don't get as much for them raw as they would if I had left them slabbed then so be it. I don't collect for their financial gain. I collect for MY enjoyment--and I enjoy coins not plastic. >>
bingo
what i do'nt understand is why the he11 so many people blame their "heirs" for the need to own pla$tic. that's bu11s**t. own up to the fact that you do'nt wanna take the time to learn about coins, & that's why you rely on the pla$tic. take responsibilty for your actions!
K S
I do not want to take the time to learn all of the things that I need to in order to not be taken, and that's why I rely, in part, on the plastic. I want to buy, collect, and enjoy coins now, not twenty years from now. How's that?
PS I do agree with your take on the "heirs" argument. My heirs will be taken care of by other means. They can bury the coins with me, if they want. (Should I precede FatMan in reaching The Great Bourse in the Sky™, I hope that they send FatMan my 61-D $5.)
<< <i>......but I don't feel comfortable buying. >>
Raw? I, for one, would not even consider them, sorry.
Better to have em raw, than with the wrong plastic around them.
Ray
<< <i>Bottom line...I really don't give a crap how much my kids receive for my collection after I'm through with it. If they don't get as much for them raw as they would if I had left them slabbed then so be it. I don't collect for their financial gain. I collect for MY enjoyment--and I enjoy coins not plastic. >>
You may not give a crap, but would your kids give a crap?
I enjoy coins, not plastic, too. But I always like the plastic that comes with the coin too. It allows me and others to view the coins without my having to worry about damage.
Third-party certification is essential for assembling a quality collection today. I would be the first person to say that it is imperative to buy your coins certified. By buying your coins certified, your chances of buying a counterfeit is close to 0.0%; a grossly cleaned coin, 5%; a problem coin, 10%; and an overgraded coin, 30%. Nowadays, the coins that are not certified are either not worth slabbing, or could not make it into a holder. (I am talking about the top tier services).
There are two other categories that are possible, though. The owner either has not attempted submitting the coins or has bought them certified and has cracked them out to enjoy the coin au-naturale!
If you are collecting Indian cents in grades VF, XF, AU and up to MS64RB, and in values under $500, and would like to view your collection is a classic album-type holder or a plastic coin board, you may want to consider cracking out your coins! It is certainly not against the law!
A beautiful well-matched set with quality coins is a true joy to behold. I feel it even enhances the value to a prospective buyer because of the “freshness” of the coins. Coin buyers like myself, hardly ever see these types of sets nowadays and will pay very strong to get them.
However, my point is not to enhance the value of your set or to crack out your coins if you are planning to sell them anytime soon, in fact I would not recommend cracking out your coin if you have any thought of selling. The risk is that you may have a coin at the low end of the grade and when it is graded again it is not viewed as the same grade you bought it. The cure for this is to only crack out coins that are high end for the grade or coins that you are sure anybody would grade the same grade.
I have a few collectors assembling XF-MS64 sets that are cracking out their coins. They are careful and always ask me when they buy a coin if this would be a good coin to crack out. I analyze the risk for them and give my honest and fair-minded opinion. It would be prudent to save the tags as proof of what they were graded when you bought them.
In the future, if you do decide to sell, I would certainly buy them at the full grade they were sold at, even though they are not in the certified holder. This is because I buy the coin, not the holder. A nice coin is always a nice coin, and nice coins sell very easily.
I don’t typically deduct for the cost of re-certifying the coin when evaluating for purchase. Certification is a cost of doing business that is not put off on the seller. But if you wanted to re-certify your coins prior to selling you may do that too. You may even get a higher grade than what you bought! The important thing to remember, is that it is your collection and you should feel free to display them any way you see fit.
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You may not give a crap, but would your kids give a crap?
I enjoy coins, not plastic, too. But I always like the plastic that comes with the coin too. It allows me and others to view the coins without my having to worry about damage. >>
By the time my heirs get them I won't care whether or not they give a crap. I won't care if they use them in vending machines. I won't care if they melt them down into paperweights. I won't care if they sell them to some dealer at 10 cents on the dollar. I won't care if they sell them for considerably more than I have spent on them over the years. I won't care if they keep them. By then the coins will be theirs to do with as they wish.
As for damaging a $10000.00 coin--yes, I have a couple that the market claims are worth that and yes, they are now raw--through mis-handling I admit the posibility. Accidents happen. What difference does it make if that coin is suddenly only worth $7500.00? I'm never going to see that money anyway since my collection is not for sale and won't be as long as it remains my collection.
DK - I'm sure some collectors do care enough about their heirs that the plastic matters. And I'll tell you something else. If I collected gem proof type coins (which are usually worth more when slabbed at the "terminal grade"), I'd collect them in slabs, and concern for my heirs would be a big consideration. However, in real life, the coins I collect aren't worth any more in plastic, so the coins stay raw.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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<< <i>
You may not give a crap, but would your kids give a crap?
I enjoy coins, not plastic, too. But I always like the plastic that comes with the coin too. It allows me and others to view the coins without my having to worry about damage. >>
By the time my heirs get them I won't care whether or not they give a crap. I won't care if they use them in vending machines. I won't care if they melt them down into paperweights. I won't care if they sell them to some dealer at 10 cents on the dollar. I won't care if they sell them for considerably more than I have spent on them over the years. I won't care if they keep them. By then the coins will be theirs to do with as they wish.
As for damaging a $10000.00 coin--yes, I have a couple that the market claims are worth that and yes, they are now raw--through mis-handling I admit the posibility. Accidents happen. What difference does it make if that coin is suddenly only worth $7500.00? I'm never going to see that money anyway since my collection is not for sale and won't be as long as it remains my collection. >>
It's hard to say. Whether or not you care makes no difference to you, but it may make some difference to your heirs.
Let's take an analogy. I inherited $X in cash and goods from my parents after they both eventually passed away. This inheritance has allowed me to enjoy pleasures that I wouldn't have enjoyed before (e.g. buying more coins). I learned the value of the goods, either through research or through what my parents had told me.
It may be that your heirs inheritance are theirs to do as they wish, but as for me, I want to make sure that I impart to my heirs at least the knowledge of anything that has significant value.
<< <i>Bottom line...I really don't give a crap how much my kids receive for my collection after I'm through with it. If they don't get as much for them raw as they would if I had left them slabbed then so be it. I don't collect for their financial gain. I collect for MY enjoyment--and I enjoy coins not plastic. >>
I wonder if your kids are reading this.
<< <i>what i do'nt understand is why the he11 so many people blame their "heirs" for the need to own pla$tic. that's bu11s**t.
DK - I'm sure some collectors do care enough about their heirs that the plastic matters. And I'll tell you something else. If I collected gem proof type coins (which are usually worth more when slabbed at the "terminal grade"), I'd collect them in slabs, and concern for my heirs would be a big consideration. However, in real life, the coins I collect aren't worth any more in plastic, so the coins stay raw. >>
it's pretty simple, don't buy coins for your heirs if they do not want em. buy coins for YOU. leave MONEY behind for your heirs.
& again, stop using them to excuse your pla$tic blinders
K S
<< <i>Slabs, from TPG's, are for sellers, mainly. For protection, one can buy their own slabs... A true collector does not need a slab to enjoy his/her collection.... A true collector can grade and authenticate... Another point.. value does NOT derive from the slab - that is for inexperienced, uninformed neophytes who are incapable of grading and need a third party to give them confidence to buy. Nothing wrong there, indeed, it is a form of insurance for the entry level collector.. just stating a fact. Cheers, RickO >>
Ricko, there are a few people on the forum that command respect, and you are one of them. Your views on slabbing have been expressed many times and I respect them. BUT, if I had your coins in slabs and you had your coins not in slabs, I (my heirs)would have an easier time selling your coins. That being said, as has been expressed earlier in this thread, we should be collecting for our own enjoyment and not that of our legacy.
Edited to note that you have been quoted the most in this thread.
<< <i>Why do collectors break coins out of slabs to keep raw? >>
I think the opposite is true..the majority of collectors ..keep..their coins in their slabs once their graded.I believe that there are only a reletavly few in comparison who remove and retain their coins in different holders to personally view....but for the ones that do...
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Liquidity is important to a collector who frequently upgrades to build a better collection, even for "true" collectors. For collectors who never sell or upgrade, liquidity does not matter. I get the best of both worlds by having raw and slabbed coins. I intend to pass some of my collection to my children, and a complete early gold collection will bring big smiles to them
<< <i>Question for those that don't care about their collection after they die---Would it bother you to know that a B&M dealer may give your spouse or children about 5% of what your raw coins are worth? >>
No. It wouldn't bother me if that same dealer offered melt. By definition whatever my heirs (or anyone else's for that matter) is willing to accept is what the coins are worth TO THEM. And their valuation of the collection is all that matters.
<< <i>Question for those that don't care about their collection after they die---Would it bother you to know that a B&M dealer may give your spouse or children about 5% of what your raw coins are worth? >>
not at all. i have literally told my wife & kids they can spend all may coins if they want after i die. when i'm dust, trust me, i won't give a dam.
they are gonna get plenty enough $$$ after i'm outta here
K S
I am glad that you brought this up, Bill. Over the past several years my focus has shifted multiple times. Having certified coins made them much easier to sell and trade for coins that match my current interests.
I don't know any personally who do that. Most of them send coins to ICG, ANACS and NGC in order to get the maximum benefits of the plastic, i.e. Attribution, Encapsulation, Grade assignment and "labeling" for identifying purposes.
Then again, I don't know a whole lot of collectors.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Slabs have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with liqidity. There is not a single slabbed coin in the world that would not sell just as easily if raw. >>
This will raise a few eyebrows from the modern MS70 crowd! I am glad I collect my statehood quarters out of circulation!
<< <i>Slabs have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with liquidity. There is not a single slabbed coin in the world that would not sell just as easily if raw. It might--in fact, I even accept the word "will"--sell for less, but it will sell. >>
I disagree with this as a generalization. If I cracked out a PCGS MS-62 Dahlonega $5 and carried it around the bourse to dealers or mailed it around, I would get comments/questions like:
"Why isn't this slabbed?"
"There must be something wrong with it."
"I will give you choice AU money for it, and you will be lucky to get it."
"I do not buy better date raw gold."
"Has this been cleaned/doctored/AT'ed/puttied/(insert your own)?"
"All rare date gold that has not been slabbed has a problem."
There is not a snowball's chance in Hades that I would get anything close to MS-62 money for it, and frankly, I probably would get very few offers. Most would be afraid of it.
<< <i>I probably would get very few offers. >>
If you get any offer it's just as liquid as it would be if slabbed. Liquidity has nothing to do with value...merely salability.
However, I admit that basically now I am just being arguementative.
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<< <i>I probably would get very few offers. >>
If you get any offer it's just as liquid as it would be if slabbed. Liquidity has nothing to do with value...merely salability.
However, I admit that basically now I am just being arguementative.
Okay, I will agree with that last statement.
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<< <i>Question for those that don't care about their collection after they die---Would it bother you to know that a B&M dealer may give your spouse or children about 5% of what your raw coins are worth? >>
No. It wouldn't bother me if that same dealer offered melt. By definition whatever my heirs (or anyone else's for that matter) is willing to accept is what the coins are worth TO THEM. And their valuation of the collection is all that matters. >>
But coins can have significant value, and it would be good to impart such knowledge of value to the appropriate persons when the time comes.
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<< <i>Slabs have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with liquidity. There is not a single slabbed coin in the world that would not sell just as easily if raw. It might--in fact, I even accept the word "will"--sell for less, but it will sell. >>
I disagree with this as a generalization. If I cracked out a PCGS MS-62 Dahlonega $5 and carried it around the bourse to dealers or mailed it around, I would get comments/questions like:
"Why isn't this slabbed?"
"There must be something wrong with it."
"I will give you choice AU money for it, and you will be lucky to get it."
"I do not buy better date raw gold."
"Has this been cleaned/doctored/AT'ed/puttied/(insert your own)?"
"All rare date gold that has not been slabbed has a problem."
There is not a snowball's chance in Hades that I would get anything close to MS-62 money for it, and frankly, I probably would get very few offers. Most would be afraid of it. >>
This is the reason why I say most collectors are not educated enough and that using plastic has become a crutch, and the dealers are using it to their advantage as well as being uneducated and using it as a crutch themselves...
QN
Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!
<< <i>Slabs have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with liqidity. There is not a single slabbed coin in the world that would not sell just as easily if raw. It might--in fact, I even accept the word "will"--sell for less, but it will sell. >>
Try selling a raw MS65 16-D dime or a raw MS67 09-SVDB cent on eBay and see how well you do.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>Slabs have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with liqidity. There is not a single slabbed coin in the world that would not sell just as easily if raw. It might--in fact, I even accept the word "will"--sell for less, but it will sell. >>
Try selling a raw MS65 16-D dime or a raw MS67 09-SVDB cent on eBay and see how well you do. >>
measuring a items liquidity by "how it would do on ebay" is ridiculous & you know it.
that's like figuring out the value of your house by trying to sell it at the local flea market
K S
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Slabs have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with liqidity. There is not a single slabbed coin in the world that would not sell just as easily if raw. It might--in fact, I even accept the word "will"--sell for less, but it will sell. >>
Try selling a raw MS65 16-D dime or a raw MS67 09-SVDB cent on eBay and see how well you do. >>
measuring a items liquidity by "how it would do on ebay" is ridiculous & you know it.
that's like figuring out the value of your house by trying to sell it at the local flea market
K S >>
What a terrible analogy. No one sells houses at a flea market yet thousands of coins are bought and sold on eBay every month. My point was that certain coins are much less liquid when they are raw rather than slabbed. I used high grade key date coins as an example. Another example would be coins that are very heavily counterfeited. Is a raw $3 gold coin just as liquid as a slabbed $3 gold coin? Of course not!!!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire