Why do collectors break coins out of slabs to keep raw?

bidask

I just got the Chris McCawley and Bob Grellman catalog of the Bill Eckberg collection of half cents.

The coins are graded and attributed but they are all raw and being offered for sale at fixed prices.

Many were broken out of slabs.

I understand the touchy feely thing but I don't feel comfortable buying.

adamlaneus

Interesting. Breaking a coin out of a slab does not un-authenticate it, so why are you uncomfortable buying it?

It is because you feel that it would sell better if slabbed? I guess you could always send it back in to PCGS, but then there is the possibility for a body bag. Yet, since it was in a slab, chances are a resubmission will get into one again.

[edit] I suppose that a slab is also very protective, so certain high quality coins that you must not touch would benefit. But it seems to me that large cents are usually brown and circulated and can 'take it'.

mozin

Once a coin is out of the holder, all bets are off.

JRocco

<< <i>Interesting. Breaking a coin out of a slab does not un-authenticate it, so why are you uncomfortable buying it?

It is because you feel that it would sell better if slabbed? I guess you could always send it back in to PCGS, but then there is the possibility for a body bag. Yet, since it was in a slab, chances are a resubmission will get into one again. >>



I am old enough to remember the early days of the slabbing game. It was in order to help those high flying investors feel comfortable in their investments---sight unseen buying and investing. It was not to help collectors. Us collectors were supposed to be able to buy for the collecting factor, not the investing factor.

MrEureka

I understand the touchy feely thing but I don't feel comfortable buying.

Most EAC'ers would probably say that's a good thing. They don't want the whole world playing in their little sandbox.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>I understand the touchy feely thing but I don't feel comfortable buying. >>



Haven't you answered your own question?

Many collectors like to see and handle their coins, particular in the EAC and C4 world.

You may not be comfortable to buy, but my guess is that these pieces will do just fine at auction without you.

fc

<< <i>

<< <i>I understand the touchy feely thing but I don't feel comfortable buying. >>



Haven't you answered your own question?

Many collectors like to see and handle their coins, particular in the EAC and C4 world.

You may not be comfortable to buy, but my guess is that these pieces will do just fine at auction without you. >>



not an auction. fixed price list.

the first thing i thought of was stacks and how they sell many raw
coins. why not bust them out and put the "stacks grade" on it and
let people go at it. Might result in many coins fetching more then they
would as a whole instead of allowing a mix of raw and slabbed.. with
people thinking why in the world is that one raw and this one slabbed? must be a problem coin, skip it!

i dunno. just a guess. i agree with others it seems the crowd who
likes those types of coins are old school and do things their own way.

bidask

<< <i>

<< <i>I understand the touchy feely thing but I don't feel comfortable buying. >>



Haven't you answered your own question?

Many collectors like to see and handle their coins, particular in the EAC and C4 world.

You may not be comfortable to buy, but my guess is that these pieces will do just fine at auction without you. >>

Why in the EAC and C4 world? Its just another coin....

Quarternut

Bidask,
As we told you in another thread, there are large amounts of rare early copper coins not in slabs!

QN

lasvegasteddy

i've read here that some fully believe in early copper needs to be "brushed" for it's long term maintence

MrHalfDime

I cannot answer your question for the masses, but I can answer it for myself. Of all the half dimes that I have ever purchased, I would estimate that at least one third (perhaps more) were in slabs when I purchased them; none are now. I crack out all of my coins and mount them in my own holders. I do this for several reasons. For the series I collect (United States half dimes from 1794-1873), I want to be able to weigh a coin and perhaps check its specific gravity to determine authenticity. Also, I like to measure the diameter of each coin for some research I am doing on different collars. Also, I check the reeding on most Liberty Seated half dimes, both as a check on authenticity, and also for some additional research on reeding guages used at the various mints. In addition, I need to be able to photograph my coins, free of the distortion, reflection and milky scratched surfaces seen on most slabs. None of this would be possible if the coins were in slabs. The holders that I place my coins in are significantly smaller than any slab, making the overall size of my reference collection suitable for storage in a safe deposit box; they would not fit in a SDB if still in slabs. My final reason for cracking out all of my coins is that I sometimes disagree with the grade assigned by the TPG, and I almost ALWAYS disagree with any attribution done by any TPG. For me, raw coins are the only way to collect, study, store and display coins.

bidask

<< <i>Bidask,
As we told you in another thread, there are large amounts of rare early copper coins not in slabs!

QN >>

Ok, I get that there are those who like to handle their copper raw, you like to handle your quarters raw, and Mr Half Dime likes to handle his half dimes raw ( until he sells). So I guess it is the touchy feely thing.

I would be afraid of my thumbs and forefingers.

MidLifeCrisis

<< <i>

<< <i>I understand the touchy feely thing but I don't feel comfortable buying. >>



Haven't you answered your own question?

Many collectors like to see and handle their coins, particular in the EAC and C4 world.

You may not be comfortable to buy, but my guess is that these pieces will do just fine at auction without you. >>


I'm a member of both EAC and C4 and I agree with bidask on this...I prefer my coins slabbed. It's not so much the grade as it is the protection of the coin and the authentication guarantee. If I'm going to spend any serious money on a coin, I need that safety net.

But I know I'm in the minority among collectors of early copper...

charley

I do it so nobody will laugh at me when I tell them what I paid when they see the grade on the slab. It affords an opportunity to embellish my ability to pick a winner, telling the tall fish story, so to speak. It also prevents my wife from looking up value and then pestering me what to sell when she feels a shopping attack building up in her head. She can't grade a coin worth a darn, so I am safe. Respectfully, John Curlis

MrHalfDime

"I would be afraid of my thumbs and forefingers."

Buy yourself some cotton gloves, and always wear them when handling your coins.

bidask

<< <i>"I would be afraid of my thumbs and forefingers."

Buy yourself some cotton gloves, and always wear them when handling your coins. >>

But then I couldn't feel them.

bidask

Seriously, I was at the Chicago International Coin Show last spring. In foreign coin land, most coins are still raw as foreigners are way behind buying into the slab thing.

Many of those raw coins are very choice and original.

I kid you not I saw more than a couple foreign dealers handing their coins with their paws all over the face of the coin.

I was freaked out.

Do you think that happens with collectors who like their nice coins raw?

MrHalfDime

"Do you think that happens with collectors who like their nice coins raw?"

I cannot speak for others, but that certainly does not happen with me. I'm not suggesting that you should mishandle your coins when raw; always handle them carefully, and at a minimum. But to me there is nothing more frustrating than trying to see a detail on a coin through a scratched and milky plastic holder.

..... well, almost nothing.

lasvegasteddy

this is one reply in a post about early copper and "brushing" for its maintence

"Lou - As I said, the slab can provide protection from the uninitiated. Those who have taken the time to learn how to properly care for and store copper can prevent, slow down, and even reverse corrosive and other processes from occuring on coppers, but they have to actually handle the coins and keep them in the right conditions. A slab is a trap for moisture and other environmental chemicals that will destroy some coins in time. The only way to solve the problem is to have the coin out of a slab and in the hands of an advanced collector. The example here of early copper is more obvious than others, since pure copper (which those coins basically were) is highly reactive and can change rapidly if ignored. Slabs work both ways - they protect in some ways and they are a growth chamber for problems in another. In the long-term, early coppers in slabs will suffer."

DMWJR

Unfortunately the Capitol display case for my 20th century type set has round holes for coins, and not rectangle ones for slabs. Therefore I must crack!

RYK

I have enjoyed handling my raw Chain cent, my 18th century medals, and my draped bust halves (before the latter were slabbed). It's a dimension of collecting that I certainly miss with my slabbed coins.

Batman23

I personally like the look of my slabbed coins and would rather keep them there. However, and has already been stated, my Dansco Lincoln album does not have large rectangular holes for the slabs. I am currently in a point of contemplation... my recent 09-S VDB and 14-D look quite nice in the PCGS plastic but it is hard to look at my Dansco and see the empty holes. So the inevitable will occur soon. The nippers will come out, the coin freed and stuck next to his little round friends.

Cladiator

<< <i>I understand the touchy feely thing >>

You answered your own questioin.

OKbustchaser

Coins have 3 sides...slabs only have 2 viewing windows. Often, the invisible third side of a slabbed coin is the most interesting of the 3 sides. One would never realize this unless he cracked it out.

Edit: I actually CAN spell; I just can't type.

Cladiator

<< <i>Coins have 3 sides... >>

Barndog

a photo of a pile of slabs would not be as cool as this one:

bidask

<< <i>a photo of a pile of slabs would not be as cool as this one:



>>

That picture does evoke some days gone by......how carefully did you have to place those coins on each other?

Barndog

<< <i>That picture does evoke some days gone by......how carefully did you have to place those coins on each other? >>



took me about one minute to set it up as I had the coins out already on the desk anyway when I decided to take a picture of them "arranged"

Hyperion

<< <i>

<< <i>That picture does evoke some days gone by......how carefully did you have to place those coins on each other? >>



took me about one minute to set it up as I had the coins out already on the desk anyway when I decided to take a picture of them "arranged" >>



EG, I got out my wooden bowl and slammed it upside down on the counter ?

PerryHall

The grading services must really love you guys. Eventually you or your heirs will sell your coins and you will have to pay to get them reslabbed if you ever hope to get the highest prices for your coins.

Barndog

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>That picture does evoke some days gone by......how carefully did you have to place those coins on each other? >>



took me about one minute to set it up as I had the coins out already on the desk anyway when I decided to take a picture of them "arranged" >>



EG, I got out my wooden bowl and slammed it upside down on the counter ? >>



oh no, those are not "wooden bowl coins"

one is the plate coin from the half dime book (page 231)
one is an R-6+ by die marriage (obverse cud)
one is an R-6 by die state (reverse cud)
two others are R-6 (former R-7) by die marriage
one is R-7 by die marriage
and the other two are R-5



and here's the bowl for those interested:

MrHalfDime

"Eventually you or your heirs will sell your coins and you will have to pay to get them reslabbed if you ever hope to get the highest prices for your coins."

Not necessarily true. A comprehensive collection of an early Federal series of United States coins, by die marriage, is recognized and appreciated by other specialists in that series, irrespective of any plastic holder. The value is in the coin, not in the plastic. Besides, if the TPG's attempted to attribute the die marriages in a specialized collection, they would invariably screw it up. The 'highest prices' will be realized by placing the coins, at auction or other means, in front of other specialists who recognize their value. For generic or widget collections, your statement might be true.

SeaEagleCoins

For me it is pretty simple... I collect coins... not slabs with labels... and I find kool-aid to be way too sweet and "fake" tasting... (I am speaking now as a collector...I don't wear $200+ sneakers but if I had a sneaker store I would sell them)

Now, I do understand the reasoning of the "need to slab" with High Grade coins and extreme rarities (which I do not collect) and those coins that are commonly counterfeited will sell better to the unadvanced collector when slabbed ( by the right flavor of plastic)...

To each there own...


I will echo what was previously said ... EACers and World Coin collectors, for the most part, prefer their coins raw... and it is NOT just a touchy, feely thing... proper care of copper is primary... and another reason many here might be SHOCKED to realize...

EACers usually do not agree with ANY TPG grading standard... and most collectors outside the US have little to no use for our grading standards...

lordmarcovan

Sometimes if you're using an album and it is not feasible to slab all the coins, a crackout is in order.

Personally, if I were still collecting US coins, I would likely want them all in slabs and then would put the slabs in an Eagle slab album or something of that ilk, but back when I was collecting AU classic commems I used a Dansco and cracked out several of the coins from slabs.

In my core collection (ancients), slabbing is not as widely appreciated (perhaps because of the aforementioned "touchy-feely" phenomenon), and one or two of my pieces have been cracked out of slabs to keep in flips and a binder, for the sake of consistency. The rest are all still raw, like I bought them.

For me, it's either all or nothing- all slabbed, or none at all. I gotta have a consistent method of housing and displaying the coins, rather than keeping them in separate boxes or binders or whatever. I'm just that way.

Cladiator

<< <i>Besides, if the TPG's attempted to attribute the die marriages in a specialized collection, they would invariably screw it up. >>

DwaineO

Most of mine have gone into Dansco albums.

ttown

For me I collect sets. The albums are a much better way to display your coins. Slabs are just too big and require you to lay them out to enjoy them.

Barndog

<< <i>

<< <i>Besides, if the TPG's attempted to attribute the die marriages in a specialized collection, they would invariably screw it up. >>

>>



Jules Reiver would agree too! My 1835 LM-11 half dime was attributed as LM-10 in one of the Jules Reiver auctions.

ambro51

Naturally, others will disagree with the following, which is fine.

I prefer my 'valuable' coins to rest in PCGS holders. They are all sitting deep inside the bowels of Wachovia Bank anyway, so what does it matter? I play with the pictures here on my hard drive, and thats how I appreciate and share them with this collecting fraternity. Even IF I had the 'good' ones here, WHY in Gods name would I want to risk getting a fingerprint or a scratch or PVC or atmospheric pollutant damage onto a 66RD svdb? Whats the point?

Now...Ive got a lot of goofy coins, ones that are fun to look at and interesting, but not worth a lot dollar wise. Like a NJ cent, or a 1796 lib cap cent, or the Bashlow CSA restrikes..... What would be gained by slabbing them? Not too much.

Being fairly fumblefingered.....I prefer to study coins when in a holder. That can be an airtite as well as a pcgs slab. I dont like the little stapled shut paper/cellophane holders, all I see is a big nasty staple scratch some day when I finally pull it out.

Another good reason for slabs......If ever Im killed by some idiot drunk driver or something such as that, my Wife will have little difficulty selling these coins for fair market value, without having to be a competent self grader.

I still have my Whitmans from a young age, and I still have 1/2 of my grandmothers whitmans (my grandaughter has the other half) and obviously they will never see a slab of any kind. Just circulation coins, fun to look at and well protected by these wonderful folders.

icsoccer

I also use capital holders. I like to see them all at once. I crack out 80% of the time, however I leave the $$$$ and up coins in the slab and have lower$ coins in the holder. (It's hard to stop upgrading.) lol

ziggy29

<< <i>I personally like the look of my slabbed coins and would rather keep them there. However, and has already been stated, my Dansco Lincoln album does not have large rectangular holes for the slabs. I am currently in a point of contemplation... my recent 09-S VDB and 14-D look quite nice in the PCGS plastic but it is hard to look at my Dansco and see the empty holes. So the inevitable will occur soon. The nippers will come out, the coin freed and stuck next to his little round friends. >>

BTDT with my 1877 IHC. I kept it in a slab for a couple of years but got tired of that hole staring at me in the album.

Note that almost all of the raw collectors are dealing with well-circulated coins which aren't likely to be damaged by careful and gentle handling. I don't think many fans of raw collecting would suggest it for high-value MS or even AU coins.

ricko

Slabs, from TPG's, are for sellers, mainly. For protection, one can buy their own slabs... A true collector does not need a slab to enjoy his/her collection.... A true collector can grade and authenticate... Another point.. value does NOT derive from the slab - that is for inexperienced, uninformed neophytes who are incapable of grading and need a third party to give them confidence to buy. Nothing wrong there, indeed, it is a form of insurance for the entry level collector.. just stating a fact. Cheers, RickO

mike92694

<< <i>Slabs, from TPG's, are for sellers, mainly. For protection, one can buy their own slabs... A true collector does not need a slab to enjoy his/her collection.... A true collector can grade and authenticate... Another point.. value does NOT derive from the slab - that is for inexperienced, uninformed neophytes who are incapable of grading and need a third party to give them confidence to buy. Nothing wrong there, indeed, it is a form of insurance for the entry level collector.. just stating a fact. Cheers, RickO >>



I disagree in relevant part.

Having said this, I've been collecting coins with a great deal of seriousness for about 5 years. Most of my coins I purchase for my collection fall into the low 4-digit price range, and they are all slabbed. I do have some collector coins that are not slabbed, but those fall into the low 3-digit price range.

Am I an uninformed neophyte? I seriously doubt it. Do I know how to grade and authenticate? With a certain amount of confidence, yes. But that does not imply that I am an expert by any means.

I am not dumb. I know that there is inherent value in a slab, and that value comes not from the coin, but from perception. Should the time come to sell my coins, I probably won't have the time or patience to see who will not cheat me if the coins are raw. It would be much easier to sell if the coins are slabbed.

BlindedByEgo

Early copper guys are weird

RTS

Why do collectors break coins out of slabs to keep raw?...I keep my coins in my desk drawer
like loose change and they take up less space raw...

ziggy29

<< <i>Early copper guys are weird >>

If they were any weirder, they would be VAMmers.

MikeInFL

<< <i>I understand the touchy feely thing but I don't feel comfortable buying. >>



Why don't you feel comfortable?

To wit, if you aren't comfortable in your grading skills, I would respectfully suggest you probably shouldn't be buying in the first place....Mike

Cladiator

Hey RTS, can I see pics of that XF40 1328 quarter? Sounds cool!

Quarternut

<< <i>Slabs, from TPG's, are for sellers, mainly. For protection, one can buy their own slabs... A true collector does not need a slab to enjoy his/her collection.... A true collector can grade and authenticate... Another point.. value does NOT derive from the slab - that is for inexperienced, uninformed neophytes who are incapable of grading and need a third party to give them confidence to buy. Nothing wrong there, indeed, it is a form of insurance for the entry level collector.. just stating a fact. Cheers, RickO >>



Well said!

The point is that some collectors will be more comfortable, especially when the time comes to sell, if their coins are encapsulated in plastic.

Mainly this is so the uneducated, uninformed, and unsure collectors will pay bigger bucks just for that added comfort and insurance that a slab is supposed to instill.

However, all slab grades are not equal in the same grade listed on the slab. An educated collector who knows how to grade and authenticate coins knows this and is able to discount what the slab may or may not say. I pity the collector who does not learn how to properly grade his coins and only buys based on what the slab says, as they may be in for a rude awakening when the time to sell comes along. And the thought that your heirs will be better protected is also at risk.

This debate is never going to be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. There will always be collectors coming up through the ranks who will use the slab as a crutch until they are more educated and comfortable with their own grading skills, and the advanced collector who needs to own something more tangible than an hunk of metal entombed in plastic.

QN

tahoe98

<< <i>Once a coin is out of the holder, all bets are off. >>






you betchum!!