I see an interesting anomaly emerging that bothers me
saintguru
Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
It's the "REGISTRY COLLECTORS"! The racers who must have closure in something that should take years, decades even.
These are collectors who are new to the game and have aspirations and cash to buy coins. They clamor to buy as many coins as they can simply because there's a REGISTRY to give them competition and a drive to fill holes. what inevitably happens is that OCD kicks in BIG TIME, they buy more than they can afford and within a few years they sell....and not because they are satisfied. they are broke or in debt or just didn't care about what they were doing.
I have seen 4 significant Saint collectors do this in the last year in a half. They're off to the races, before they know it they start buying the big guns, borrowing against coins or simply stretching themselves so thin that they over commit. I've helped all 4 of these guys and I told a few of the 4 who I helped start out to sloooow down; they were simply grabbing everything that came along. Their degree of discretion in buying well graded coins was compromised because of the thrill of the hunt and they imploded.
Now I'm one who learns from mistakes and I've made less than I thought, but I would massage my set until I found the finest coin I could for the grade. There were a few dates that I had in MS64 that I replaced 3 or 4 times just to get closer to the best there is. I call that horizontal upgrading and the best collectors in the world do the same. I'll bet that Stewart Blay has owned many of the finest top pops in every date just to get the best of the best. It cost a little each time but it was worth it and it made my commitment and passion much greater than my need to exceed in the registry, to the point where I abandoned the registry race and just sold all the lesser coins and bought less than one box of monsters.
I would imagine that this has happened in other series' as well and it should be a lesson for anyone who's on the edge to slow down, take one coin at a time and buy only what you can afford. There's no "collector" in someone who has $2 million in coins with a debt-load of $1 million. They will surely self-destruct. It's been said that the great collections begin to become great after the first decade (unless you're just loaded with cash) and I think that along with carefully selecting coins and not looking to fill holes you begin to garner a much greater appreciation of what you're doing and you become more aesthetically immersed in the actual coins you own. This is what is consistently missing in the people who I've seen burn out. They never really "knew" their coins, the series and what true PQ coins are.
This isn't a contest. The registry is a great concept as long as people respect the limits that each one of us has and when you get caught up in the "filling" you never really develop that passion that many of us have. I am more satisfied with the NINE Saints that I own than the 50 I had in my Phase One of collecting and I was 4th on the list at the time I decided to dissemble my set. I'm not the richest guy here by miles but my commitment to building or perhaps "arranging" the best coins I could was a great new direction and one of much more satisfaction, not to mention one that I am convinced will prove to be a wiser investment over the long run. Maybe I'll buy one coin a year...but it will be a coin of distinction and will not budge me from being #24 on the list and proudly so.
Enjoy the Registry but don't let it determine you pace....let your finances and opportunities do that.
ADDENDUM: Let me state that I think the Registry is a great thing for collectors. I'm just pointing out how some people can avoid the pitfall of becoming addicted by the chase. I have my tiny collection on the Registry and I still love looking at it. I don't care if I'm #24...it's irrelevant. I could buy set #3, maybe even #2 with mine.
It's not a competition anymore.
These are collectors who are new to the game and have aspirations and cash to buy coins. They clamor to buy as many coins as they can simply because there's a REGISTRY to give them competition and a drive to fill holes. what inevitably happens is that OCD kicks in BIG TIME, they buy more than they can afford and within a few years they sell....and not because they are satisfied. they are broke or in debt or just didn't care about what they were doing.
I have seen 4 significant Saint collectors do this in the last year in a half. They're off to the races, before they know it they start buying the big guns, borrowing against coins or simply stretching themselves so thin that they over commit. I've helped all 4 of these guys and I told a few of the 4 who I helped start out to sloooow down; they were simply grabbing everything that came along. Their degree of discretion in buying well graded coins was compromised because of the thrill of the hunt and they imploded.
Now I'm one who learns from mistakes and I've made less than I thought, but I would massage my set until I found the finest coin I could for the grade. There were a few dates that I had in MS64 that I replaced 3 or 4 times just to get closer to the best there is. I call that horizontal upgrading and the best collectors in the world do the same. I'll bet that Stewart Blay has owned many of the finest top pops in every date just to get the best of the best. It cost a little each time but it was worth it and it made my commitment and passion much greater than my need to exceed in the registry, to the point where I abandoned the registry race and just sold all the lesser coins and bought less than one box of monsters.
I would imagine that this has happened in other series' as well and it should be a lesson for anyone who's on the edge to slow down, take one coin at a time and buy only what you can afford. There's no "collector" in someone who has $2 million in coins with a debt-load of $1 million. They will surely self-destruct. It's been said that the great collections begin to become great after the first decade (unless you're just loaded with cash) and I think that along with carefully selecting coins and not looking to fill holes you begin to garner a much greater appreciation of what you're doing and you become more aesthetically immersed in the actual coins you own. This is what is consistently missing in the people who I've seen burn out. They never really "knew" their coins, the series and what true PQ coins are.
This isn't a contest. The registry is a great concept as long as people respect the limits that each one of us has and when you get caught up in the "filling" you never really develop that passion that many of us have. I am more satisfied with the NINE Saints that I own than the 50 I had in my Phase One of collecting and I was 4th on the list at the time I decided to dissemble my set. I'm not the richest guy here by miles but my commitment to building or perhaps "arranging" the best coins I could was a great new direction and one of much more satisfaction, not to mention one that I am convinced will prove to be a wiser investment over the long run. Maybe I'll buy one coin a year...but it will be a coin of distinction and will not budge me from being #24 on the list and proudly so.
Enjoy the Registry but don't let it determine you pace....let your finances and opportunities do that.
ADDENDUM: Let me state that I think the Registry is a great thing for collectors. I'm just pointing out how some people can avoid the pitfall of becoming addicted by the chase. I have my tiny collection on the Registry and I still love looking at it. I don't care if I'm #24...it's irrelevant. I could buy set #3, maybe even #2 with mine.
It's not a competition anymore.
0
Comments
I could relate to so much of your post...I've been to the edge with buying more or bigger than I should have. But it wasn't because of the registry, it was because of OCD and I just loved coins, all kinds of coins! I have "streamlined" my collection down to five coins currently and two on the way. I buy far fewer coins than I used to...but each coin means something to me and that satisfaction gets me through the long dry spells until the next coin.
Right on!!!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
---------------------------------
"No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!"
"If it don't make $"
"It don't make cents""
<< <i>Nothing Personal... "ANOMALY" >>
That was indeed an anomaly.
Before you start building a set, calculate what it will cost to build the set to your satisfaction. It seems so basic, but virtually nobody does this.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I've said this so many times before but now seems like a good time to say it again:
Before you start building a set, calculate what it will cost to build the set to your satisfaction. It seems so basic, but virtually nobody does this. >>
I couldn't agree more. No one thinks about this until they are unhappily standing in the middle of a collection they cannot possibly afford to complete.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
<< <i>This isn't a contest. >>
Right on, I couldn't agree more.
Just kidding. Excellent post Jay.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
I had a ton of sets started from Saints to Indian eagles to Lincoln cents. The OCD in me kept getting annoyed seeing the empty holes. Now that is not a problem. Out of site, out of mind.
-Bill Cosby
I'm just past the 10 year mark, and everything you said is so true. (Could "10 yr newbie" be a new collecting term?) I've been weeding out the trash for the last couple of years, and will continue to do so. I'm also checking coins in the same grades or better than I already have so that I can find the very best one for my set, even though there are holes in my set that continually draw my attention. At one point I was fool enough to think I was going to complete the basic 09-58 BS Lincoln Set by 2009 in the grades I wanted. It dawned on me sometime in 2005 that this was not to be. I didn't have enough decades under my collecting belt to get there. This is going to take a while. (understatement)
Andy, I agree, but I'm not collecting at the same level I was 10 years ago. You don't waltz in and drop $10k on your first coin, at least most people don't, with the thought that it is a downpayment on where they are going. And with rising prices continuously over the last eight years in Lincolns, the goal is a moving target.
Nevertheless, I am enjoying the hell out of the hobby! It beats working!!!
It sounds like your post has a lot of wisdom that really only comes from years accrued in the hobby. I don't know if many collectors start with that presence of mind about collecting.
I made plenty of mistakes this year (my first year) and I hope they are shaping me to be smarter in the coming years. I seem to learn all my lessons the hard way. I definitely fell into that pattern that you mentioned, though. When I started up, I was buying everything that filled an empty checklist spot. It resulted in me over-extending myself and ending up with some coins I'm not too happy with. I've slowed down quite a bit so I've hope I learned something (or is it because my collection is almost done?)
I also think the registry can serve different purposes for different people. My Lincoln collection certainly isn't special and probably never will be. I use the registry tool because I don't know of anything else that lets me track my collection so easily not because I'm trying to compete for rank or fame. I don't publish my set for that reason. I am probably not using the tool in the real spirit it was intended for but I don't mind. I'll keep using it as long as they let me!
"The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows." - Frank Zappa
Why do you think they started the Registry sets in the first place? It was to take advantage of human nature and in the collector's OCD nature in particular, and of course to make more $$$$$...
QN
Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
I got caught up in a registry collection when I first started collecting and it can be addicting, especially in a modern collection where there are MS/PR 70's out there. I settled down and realized that modern 70's were an all around bad buy....the pop can only get larger with the resulting drop in value. I haven't even looked at a registry set in a couple of years.
I'm now happily ensconced in a 7070 type set and following the same road you outlined..... upgrade slowly and steadily when nicer coins become available. Plus I can enjoy the coins for what they are... history. It makes for a much more satisfying hobby.
John
<< <i>It's the "REGISTRY COLLECTORS"! The racers who must have closure in something that should take years, decades even.
These are collectors who are new to the game and have aspirations and cash to buy coins. They clamor to buy as many coins as they can simply because there's aREGISTRY to give them a competition and a drive to fill holes. what inevitably happens is that OCD kicks in BIG TIME, they buy more than they can afford and within a few years they sell....and not because they are satisfied. they are broke or in debt or just didn't care about what they were doing.
I have seen 4 significant Saint collectors do this in the last year in a half. They're off to the races, before they know it they start buying the big guns, borrowing against coins or simply stretching themselves so thin that they over commit. I've helped all 4 of these guys and I told a few of the 4 who I helped start out to sloooow down; they were simply grabbing everything that came along. Their degree of discretion in buying well graded coins was compromised because of the thrill of the hunt and they imploded.
Now I'm one who learns from mistakes and I've made less than I thought, but I would massage my set until I found the finest coin I could for the grade. There were a few dates that I had in MS64 that I replaced 3 or 4 times just to get closer to the best there is. I call that horizontal upgrading and the best collectors in the world do the same. I'll bet that Stewart Blay has owned many of the finest top pops in every date just to get the best of the best. It cost a little each time but it was worth it and it made my commitment and passion much greater than my need to exceed in the registry, to the point where I abandoned the registry race and just sold all the lesser coins and bought less than one box of monsters.
I would imagine that this has happened in other series' as well and it should be a lesson for anyone who's on the edge to slow down, take one coin at a time and buy only what you can afford. There’s no "collector" in someone who has $2 million in Saints with a debt-load of $1 million. They will surely self-destruct. It's been said that the great collections begin to become great after the first decade (unless you're just loaded with cash) and I think that along with carefully selecting coins and not looking to fill holes you begin to garner a much greater appreciation of what you're doing and you become more aesthetically immersed in the actual coins you own. This is what is consistently missing in the people who I've seen burn out. They never really "knew" their coins, the series and what true PQ coins are.
This isn't a contest. The registry is a great concept as long as people respect the limits that each one of us has and when you get caught up in the "filling" you never really develop that passion that many of us have. I am more satisfied with the NINE Saints that I own than the 50 I had in my Phase One of collecting and I was 4th on the list at the time I decided to dissemble my set. I'm not the richest guy here by miles but my commitment to building or perhaps "arranging" the best coins I could was a great new direction and one of much more satisfaction, not to mention one that I am convinced will prove to be a wiser investment over the long run. Maybe I'll buy one coin a year...but it will be a coin of distinction and will not budge me from being #24 on the list and proudly so.
Enjoy the Registry but don't let it determine you pace....let your finances and opportunities do that. >>
Great post Jay,and more folks should think that way.Its all about quality and eye appeal,not plastic.JMHO
Lately, with 3 precious grandchildren, there have been some more important prioities for me to spend some money on and collecting is waiting longer - oh well!
<< <i>good read, but good luck getting a registry collector to see your point, >>
His post was excellent, but I disagree on his point that the registry sets are a good idea. To me, it was more of a marketing ploy to get people to send in tons of late date Lincolns and such in hopes of a top pop coin that could be sold for ridiculous (and stupid) money. Registry sets of Saints, seated, copper like Blay's I can understand more than some of this other stuff.
John
I'm unable to find a single point I disagree with.
I think every observation and judgment made is 100% correct.
IMO, the post of the month...if not longer.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
Over the past decade I sort of shifted to general silver type with a focus on seated material but found myself acquiring too much misc stuff. That wouldn't have been a problem if I only had 20-30 killer pieces. But I had 60-80 pieces of which more than half were just stuff imo. Today I'm back down to the 20-30 "better" pieces and completing a set of anything is still well off the radar screen.
roadrunner
The Registry has been good for the coin market. It's expanded the concept of actually building sets, of striving for quality and of having a plan. But as it's been said, OCD is a vicious thing in this little hobby/addiction of ours. We always want more. We see cool stuff all the time and we want it. But you can't go deep into debt because you need to edge past the guy ahead of you by .01 points.
I was inspired to write this because of the four big Saint collectors who have liquidated after sprinting into leveraged positions. I WANT more collectors not competitors. I'd rather ride a rickshaw over a comet here. I've been on the comet but I never allowed myself to get over my head.
Thanks!
I must've left it all behind, oh, five years ago, but it was fun while it lasted.
Like you said, though, the OCD was an ever present danger. I'm susceptible to it.
Dan
edited for spelling
I've said this so many times before but now seems like a good time to say it again:
Before you start building a set, calculate what it will cost to build the set to your satisfaction. It seems so basic, but virtually nobody does this - Eureka
Why didn't you mention this before I started with this stupid Victoria............... even a gem type set is proving brutally difficult. Forget a 64-year reign with 12 major denominations. Man, this doesn't just add up, it "multiplies" up.
Bye for now. I'm MacCrimmon, and I'm OCD.
Thanks for the post and a great observation.
<< <i>Registry collecting is what brought me here, originally.
I must've left it all behind, oh, five years ago, but it was fun while it lasted.
Like you said, though, the OCD was an ever present danger. I'm susceptible to it. >>
Welcome back, LM. I agree with what SG and many others have said. I think that we all have OCD to some extent, but SG expressed it well in that we need to collect within our means. Now, where am I going to get rid of all these widgets?
"Can you spare a Saint, Brother?" The price of coffee has gone up over the years, ya know.
TC71
<< <i>That makes for smoe good reading Sainty, and to boot you collect the HIGHEST end of the set registrys.......
"Can you spare a Saint, Brother?" The price of coffee has gone up over the years, ya know.
TC71 >>
yet I walked from the Registry chase because I decided that "monsters" were better than quantity for my satisfaction. For some this is true, others respectfully choose to try to complete a series. Both are great if you stick to quality over speed.
<< <i>I like the registry simply as a nice online venue to publicly display some of my coins. >>
This goes for me too. Heck, nobody else I know (in person) gives a hoot about my coins; so you're all drafted to look at them with me
K
<< <i>I like the registry simply as a nice online venue to publicly display some of my coins. >>
I agree.
Some say the Registry is all about competition but I don't feel the need to 'compete' with my set(s). I've been going backwards since the day I started my Lincoln Registry set and have loved almost every day it.
I think the temptation to 'plug holes' is something everybody has to work through for themselves and a balanced approach to collecting can only be achieved through time and study. JMO
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
Look, I still have my few coins on display in the Registry and I love having them there. I fully support the whole idea.
While I agree with your observations and what you have said, I disagree with this:
<< <i>This isn't a contest. >>
That's exactly what it is! Just like March Madness, the Superbowl, and the World Series. The public view and ranking of the registry sets strokes egos that are connected to wallets. Unfortunately, there are negative consequences for getting carried away.
I would argue that anyone who contributes to this web site has some form of OCD. Its the same as the photography and home theater forums that I participate in. Each of these three forums are populated by people who spend WAY more time and money on their hobbies/compulsions than "normal" people do. Its what we do!
There were several newbies in the IHC series 4-5 years back buying just awful coins but in great holders. It will be interesting to see how they come out. At least one seller did very well selling to the next generatrion of "registry newbies".
At the IHC "showdown" several years back at LB it was astonishing how nice LMS's coins were compared to the other 2 sets IN SIMILAR GRADES. Buying quality for the grade is definitely where it's at.
<< <i>SaintGuru,
While I agree with your observations and what you have said, I disagree with this:
<< <i>This isn't a contest. >>
That's exactly what it is! Just like March Madness, the Superbowl, and the World Series. The public view and ranking of the registry sets strokes egos that are connected to wallets. Unfortunately, there are negative consequences for getting carried away.
I would argue that anyone who contributes to this web site has some form of OCD. Its the same as the photography and home theater forums that I participate in. Each of these three forums are populated by people who spend WAY more time and money on their hobbies/compulsions than "normal" people do. Its what we do! >>
This isn't a contest.
If you think it is then good luck. It's collecting coins.
What this is, is a caution to AVOID THE CONTEST. You didn't see the forest because of the trees.