Should I return these coins?

norwegianguy · July 19, 2008 7:35PM

Yesterday I received two coins that were sold to me through an internet auction (not ebay.com, but another ebay site).

First: Trade Dollar 1877S.
I believe the coin to be real.
The seller claimed that it was AU55, so I put a bid thinking it was somewhere near AU50.
When I received it, I discovered a few small hairlines indicating a light rinse, and it looked like this:

The second coin: Isabella quarter.
I believe the coin to be real.
The seller claimed that it was MS65, so I put a bid thinking it was somewhere near MS63.
When I received it, I noticed that it didn't have any cartwheel luster - indicating that it is AU55 at best. Could it possibly have been dipped?
(Another Isabella I have has cartwheel luster, so I expected it on this one too)
The coin looks like this:

The seller picture of Isabella:

I seldom return coins from internet auctions. I can only remember 2-3 times among my 4000+ trades. Normally I think that these things are something you have to deal with when you buy raw coins online.

However, this was $700+ out the window for two coins that I weren't very happy with, and right now those $700 could come to good use someplace else. So I just wonder: Would it be rude of me to ask if I could get a return?

tmcsr69 · July 19, 2008 8:04PM

If the sellers return policy is acceptable to you-then by all means return the coins. No reason you should hang onto coins you are not happy with.

PerryHall · July 19, 2008 8:17PM

Both coins look like they are cleaned. Send them back.

crypto79 · July 19, 2008 8:58PM

for that price send them back, if you got both for around 450 keep them. Problem coins are still coins and those are fine, but if you're going to pay problem free prices get problem free coins.

lcoopie · July 19, 2008 9:13PM

the isabella is not MS anything, looks cleaned

I would return both, being misrepresented, ASAP

bidask · July 19, 2008 10:40PM

<< Both coins look like they are cleaned. Send them back. >>

And try not to buy raw coins that way.

MrEureka · July 19, 2008 10:44PM

If you have a return privilege and you don't want the coins, then you should return them. If you have no return privilege, then you probably learned a lesson.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · July 19, 2008 11:44PM

Both coins are dipped. The Isabella looks lightly circulated. THe Trade Dollar is probably around AU50.

Tvac897 · July 19, 2008 11:48PM

If you're not happy with the coins and if they were misrepresented in any way then yes you should return them.

CarlWohlforth · July 20, 2008 12:29AM

I would return them I could. If there is no return policy or a "no return" policy I would politely ask if I can return them anyway. Both look AU and dipped.

copperfan · July 20, 2008 12:35AM

I agree. If possible, return them for a refund.

Im not 100% sure, but the $1 looks like it was tooled. Right obverse field by the bust. ALso has a similiar pattern on the reverse in the same spot.

The quarter is cleaned and maybe mid AU.

Its all about you and if you like them. For $700 I think you could find some really killer slabbed pieces, but like I said, its about you liking them.

TomB · July 20, 2008 12:39AM

The time to wonder about returning a coin is before you bid, not after you receive the piece. If there is a return policy and it allows a return then return the coins since they were not as advertised, in your opinion.

DorkGirl · July 20, 2008 12:41AM

You will never be happy with them. Just return them.

norwegianguy · July 20, 2008 12:49AM

Thanks, everyone.

The listing didn't explicitly state a return policy. However it said that the seller guaranteed that the descriptions were correct.

Given that the Isabella is not MS65, the description was not correct. Thus it should be possible to return it. I have sent an email to the seller now.

In general however, I think that if an auction item is clearly misrepresented, it should be possible to cancel the deal regardless of the sellers return policy....based on the fact that misrepresentation is a breach of the auction rules.

greghansen · July 20, 2008 12:59AM

The Isabella is a 'no brainer' return. That coin is not attractive in any sense IMO. The Trade Dollar also looks messed with, but has better eye appeal than the Isabella. Whether to return it is a matter of tastes.

Shamika · July 20, 2008 1:35AM

If you're asking the question, you already know the answer.

percyb · July 20, 2008 1:45AM

Return them, and you'll feel better. You can always look to buy others later on.

lava · July 20, 2008 2:25AM

I echo the other comments. You downgraded both coins in your mind when you bid, but in the future, just assume raw coins sold on the net have been dipped.

291fifth · July 20, 2008 2:41AM

Return them.

You need to learn more about grading before you spend another dime on coins.

ricko · July 20, 2008 2:55AM

Return them.... those are misrepresented (per your description) coins... and not worth what you say you paid. Cheers, RickO

PawPaul · July 20, 2008 3:05AM

...If you have only returned 3 or 4 coins out of some 4000 you bought- then you are probably sitting on hundreds of cleaned, over graded coins .

why I wonder are these coins any different from those hundreds ??

norwegianguy · July 20, 2008 3:25AM

<< ...If you have only returned 3 or 4 coins out of some 4000 you bought- then you are probably sitting on hundreds of cleaned, over graded coins .

why I wonder are these coins any different from those hundreds ?? >>

Often I don't bother to return them, because my bid was so low anyway. Just as crypto79 said in a comment here: If the price I paid was 450, I would have just kept them instead of making a big deal out of it. I also never return coins for which I have paid less than 50 bucks.

The difference here, I think, is that the Isabella coin was so far off the stated MS65. Further off than the seller's grading normally is. So my bid was accordingly high.

I must add that I have previously bought splendid coins from the same seller, so I just wanted to get some advices here before I confronted him with it. I still want to have a good relation to him.

<< You need to learn more about grading before you spend another dime on coins. >>

Hehe.. If I didn't know anything about grading, I would just have kept the Isabella and lived happily ever after, wouldn't I?

ziggy29 · July 20, 2008 3:29AM

If these are typical of the type of raw coins you end up buying, I'd stick with slabbed until your eye for coins (and evaluating images) develops to the point where you won't receive many clunkers in the mail.

DennisH · July 20, 2008 3:44AM

Don't think twice about it; send them back.

garsmith · July 20, 2008 3:47AM

I think if this was a poll you would have a unanimous "return the coins for refund"

PrivateCoinCollector · July 20, 2008 3:52AM

Not a chance in heck the Isabella is MS anything. It is lifeless. Until you could tell what everyone else is seeing by the photos, you should stick to coins in hand or in plastic. The stories run significantly towards sight unseen raw coin purchases not working out. Better to pay more for a known quantity/quality then take chances in this hobby. There is just too much at stake to rely on anything but yourself, and a trusted few.

dcarr · July 20, 2008 3:55AM

The trade dollar looks lightly cleaned. But I think it still has a reasonably nice appearance. Depending upon the price you paid for it, it might be worth keeping.

The Isabella quarter has been heavily cleaned. More than just "dipped", it has been polished. A simple "dipping" will not remove mint luster (unless the coin is left in the dip for a whole day or more). If a coin shows cartwheel luster before a dipping, it will still have cartwheel luster after a normal dipping. Heavy polishing and/or wear is what removes cartwheel luster.

PS:
If an UNC coin is toned heavily enough that the cartwheel luster is not visible, then that means that the toning has probably consumed the mint luster and a "dipping" will NOT bring it back - it will only make the coin look dull, lifeless, and cloudy.

NHSBaseball · July 20, 2008 4:00AM

I think you should return then- the Isabella in particular looks very different from the seller's pictures. I also understand those who say not to buy raw off of the Internet, etc.- however, for many of us that is one of the few available options. The caveat to that statement should be "and if you do buy raw coins on the Internet, be sure it's from a reputable seller with a good return policy".

charley · July 20, 2008 4:01AM

Buying coins of this type without the coin in hand or, in the alternative, from a trusted source and (my opinion) a reputable TPG certification, is not a wise choice. The 2 coins you have bought require having reviewed hundreds of examples of various grades and counterfeits to build, at a minimum, a knowledge base to contemplate buying ungraded examples. FWIW, I am not a brave person when not armed with such knowledge. Respectfully, John Curlis

mrearlygold · July 20, 2008 4:44AM

<< If you have a return privilege and you don't want the coins, then you should return them. If you have no return privilege, then you probably learned a lesson. >>

Yup

cladking · July 20, 2008 4:45AM

<< The Isabella is a 'no brainer' return. That coin is not attractive in any sense IMO. The Trade Dollar also looks messed with, but has better eye appeal than the Isabella. Whether to return it is a matter of tastes. >>

I agree.

The Isabella looks like it's probably unc but the life has been dipped out of it.

The trade dollar doesn't look that bad to me. Cleanings on AU coins don't offend me as much.

tahoe98 · July 20, 2008 4:49AM

<< If you're asking the question, you already know the answer. >>

...................YEP!..

Should I return these coins?

Comments

Leave a Comment